Anonymous wrote:DOp here I volunteer in the classroom so I saw her lose her shit and have a tantrum over silly little things like talking during a fire drill or getting out of line walking from recess. And I am not talking About raising her voice I am talking a full melt down. The parents who gasp all had boys in her class years prior and their experience has been that admin believes she is great and loves kids tremendously. There are rumors that she will single out a "victim" once a year and try to make that child's life difficult. The reason I am concerned is that she sent me an email that my son did xyz at a pajamas day party. But my son was not in school that day. So she then said that he did it another day. Just makes no sense.

It's funny how faulty memories are for teachers, parents, and students.

Years ago, a student got a C in my class due to a missing assignment. The parent flipped out and insisted her DC handed it to me on Day A. Only I was absent on that day. When I told her that, the mother said she was mistaken and it was really Day B and the student put it in my hand-in basket. Except on Day B, we were in the computer lab all day and my classroom door was locked all day so the student couldn't access the hand-in basket. After I told the mom that, she identified a third day that she swore was it for certain. It wasn't. The student was actually absent the day the mom said it was turned in.

Was mom crazy? No. A bad parent? No. I think she was pretty stressed by a DC who hadn't been responsible.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DOp here I volunteer in the classroom so I saw her lose her shit and have a tantrum over silly little things like talking during a fire drill or getting out of line walking from recess. And I am not talking About raising her voice I am talking a full melt down. The parents who gasp all had boys in her class years prior and their experience has been that admin believes she is great and loves kids tremendously. There are rumors that she will single out a "victim" once a year and try to make that child's life difficult. [b]The reason I am concerned is that she sent me an email that my son did xyz at a pajamas day party. But my son was not in school that day. So she then said that he did it another day. Just makes no sense.[/b]

Why aren't we talking about this part? This is very odd to me.

That said my DS has gotten in trouble for things he hasn't done before. What I tell him is that if he weren't often talking when he wasn't supposed to be the teacher wouldn't assume every out of turn whisper was him.
So while it is unfair, he needed to work on being quite and it has helped. Now the teacher has never said anything to me about it so I guess it is not that bad but the DS is his own worst enemy and rats himself out

Just tell the teacher that if the behavior is so bad that she needs to email about it she needs to email you the day it happens. Kids have short memories so if he really is misbehaving it needs to be addressed immediately.
Now if she emails you on a day when your DS is out you will know if she is really just nuts or if she made a mistake.

OK, I"ll talk about that part. It sounds as if the teacher, like most teachers, has a huge amount of work to do and honestly confused the day when she wrote the email to the mother. She probably had many other emails to do in a short amount of time. It happens. Last month I sent in email in which I accidentally referred to the student by the wrong NAME. This doesn't make me crazy or a horrible teacher: it just means that I had to write about 20 emails to 20 different people, and had a very short break period in which to do so.

I think you need to be very careful about the "rumors", etc. in cases like this. Your child will pick up on your attitude, and it will make it more difficult to respect his teacher at school, thus limiting his learning and causing him to feel that it is OK to misbehave because Mom will take his side and blame the teacher no matter what.

So PP, you are a teacher and you are on DCUM reading and responding to posts at 3 pm. I am glad you are not my kids' teacher, and by the way, if you are so busy that you don't have time for emails, why are you posting on DCUM while you are at school?

I'm not that PP, but wow! My school dismisses at 3 and my planning period is at the end of the day (7th period). I get up at 4 am to grade and plan for the next day. I'm at my desk by 6 am. So sometimes I take a break between 3 and 3:15 to fool around on the internet and relieve some work related stress. Maybe PP is the same way.

OP,

Please realize that there are parents with many differing views on discipline out there. They may not all agree with you.

I have no problems with teachers being severe. I have witnessed two teachers at my child's school yelling pretty regularly at the kids. I have observed some kids being occasionally singled out for discipline when they pushed the teacher over the edge.

And you know what? I'm fine with it. Some people have a shorter fuse than others, but there is no abuse going on, and these kids have another teacher the year after.

Truth be told, I have found that the "nicest" teachers always had the most indisciplined classes and this impeded teaching and learning to a crippling degree. My son's worst years were with teachers who had no authority. I prefer the stricter teachers to be honest.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You won't speak directly to the principal about your concerns, or try to schedule a conference with the teacher to discuss your concerns, but you freely admit that you gather information "at the playground every year" about this teacher who "has a reputation". OP, can you not grasp the idea that sometimes playground gossip is just idle prattle that has grown legs?

Or maybe every word of the playground gossip is rock-solid truth. But if OP doesn't want to do anything about it, it doesn't matter either way.

I think it does matter, though. It matters when mothers gossip idly about teachers without stopping to consider that their children will pick up on the attitude, and this makes the classroom environment less than ideal for the students AND the teacher. When your child picks up on the idea that you don't respect his teacher, he isn't going to act in a respectful way to her. Also, what if it isn't true? If the teacher is innocent but the moms who gossip for sport on the playground have taken up her "reputation" to discuss, that isn't going to go away, but will continue to influence other parents.

This!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DOp here I volunteer in the classroom so I saw her lose her shit and have a tantrum over silly little things like talking during a fire drill or getting out of line walking from recess. And I am not talking About raising her voice I am talking a full melt down. The parents who gasp all had boys in her class years prior and their experience has been that admin believes she is great and loves kids tremendously. There are rumors that she will single out a "victim" once a year and try to make that child's life difficult. [b]The reason I am concerned is that she sent me an email that my son did xyz at a pajamas day party. But my son was not in school that day. So she then said that he did it another day. Just makes no sense.[/b]

Why aren't we talking about this part? This is very odd to me.

That said my DS has gotten in trouble for things he hasn't done before. What I tell him is that if he weren't often talking when he wasn't supposed to be the teacher wouldn't assume every out of turn whisper was him.
So while it is unfair, he needed to work on being quite and it has helped. Now the teacher has never said anything to me about it so I guess it is not that bad but the DS is his own worst enemy and rats himself out

Just tell the teacher that if the behavior is so bad that she needs to email about it she needs to email you the day it happens. Kids have short memories so if he really is misbehaving it needs to be addressed immediately.
Now if she emails you on a day when your DS is out you will know if she is really just nuts or if she made a mistake.

OK, I"ll talk about that part. It sounds as if the teacher, like most teachers, has a huge amount of work to do and honestly confused the day when she wrote the email to the mother. She probably had many other emails to do in a short amount of time. It happens. Last month I sent in email in which I accidentally referred to the student by the wrong NAME. This doesn't make me crazy or a horrible teacher: it just means that I had to write about 20 emails to 20 different people, and had a very short break period in which to do so.

I think you need to be very careful about the "rumors", etc. in cases like this. Your child will pick up on your attitude, and it will make it more difficult to respect his teacher at school, thus limiting his learning and causing him to feel that it is OK to misbehave because Mom will take his side and blame the teacher no matter what.

So PP, you are a teacher and you are on DCUM reading and responding to posts at 3 pm. I am glad you are not my kids' teacher, and by the way, if you are so busy that you don't have time for emails, why are you posting on DCUM while you are at school?

Yes, I'm the PP and a teacher. I live in a different time zone. I am only on DCUM in the evenings on weeknights, my time: I agree that it would be totally inappropriate for me to be posting from school, which I've never done!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DOp here I volunteer in the classroom so I saw her lose her shit and have a tantrum over silly little things like talking during a fire drill or getting out of line walking from recess. And I am not talking About raising her voice I am talking a full melt down. The parents who gasp all had boys in her class years prior and their experience has been that admin believes she is great and loves kids tremendously. There are rumors that she will single out a "victim" once a year and try to make that child's life difficult. [b]The reason I am concerned is that she sent me an email that my son did xyz at a pajamas day party. But my son was not in school that day. So she then said that he did it another day. Just makes no sense.[/b]

Why aren't we talking about this part? This is very odd to me.

That said my DS has gotten in trouble for things he hasn't done before. What I tell him is that if he weren't often talking when he wasn't supposed to be the teacher wouldn't assume every out of turn whisper was him.
So while it is unfair, he needed to work on being quite and it has helped. Now the teacher has never said anything to me about it so I guess it is not that bad but the DS is his own worst enemy and rats himself out

Just tell the teacher that if the behavior is so bad that she needs to email about it she needs to email you the day it happens. Kids have short memories so if he really is misbehaving it needs to be addressed immediately.
Now if she emails you on a day when your DS is out you will know if she is really just nuts or if she made a mistake.

OK, I"ll talk about that part. It sounds as if the teacher, like most teachers, has a huge amount of work to do and honestly confused the day when she wrote the email to the mother. She probably had many other emails to do in a short amount of time. It happens. Last month I sent in email in which I accidentally referred to the student by the wrong NAME. This doesn't make me crazy or a horrible teacher: it just means that I had to write about 20 emails to 20 different people, and had a very short break period in which to do so.

I think you need to be very careful about the "rumors", etc. in cases like this. Your child will pick up on your attitude, and it will make it more difficult to respect his teacher at school, thus limiting his learning and causing him to feel that it is OK to misbehave because Mom will take his side and blame the teacher no matter what.

So PP, you are a teacher and you are on DCUM reading and responding to posts at 3 pm. I am glad you are not my kids' teacher, and by the way, if you are so busy that you don't have time for emails, why are you posting on DCUM while you are at school?

I believe you and the many other parents who have similar reactions to this teacher. You should follow your parental instincts. Playing favorites and picking on one child is bullying behavior -- she's manipulating the children emotionally.

I would begin writing down the incidents. You can talk to your child about what happens in school --- even if it is not about your child. First, they witnessed it and are impacted by the bad behavior AND you are an even more believable advocate when you include incidents that happen to other students.

You can meet with her and take notes on what she says.

Kids can't always articulate what is wrong -- so I would ask "did anything with the teacher that made you feel 'I don't think this is right...' or funny?" It might just make your child feel bad and they don't know why (they are 5 and they shouldn't know why it's wrong!).

Finally, only the principal knows what all the parents are saying. And, perhaps, your PTA president. The problem is that parents don't always work across grades or they will say "it's not my problem anymore..". If your principal isn't helpful -- we had a principal that just lied about a teacher like this and told parents each year "I've never gotten any complaints" when she had a file on the teacher -- then you can conduct a survey. I used the criteria for teacher evaluations from the county and asked parents who ever had the teacher to fill it out and included examples of bad behavior. I then had about 15-20 different examples in writing (anonymously) to take to the principal and, when ignored, to the MCPS administration.

My child never had a problem with our bad teacher, but I heard of many problems and she was a bully. There are many parents who can't or won't speak up for students -- for many reasons including being afraid of retaliation by the teacher or principal -- so it is incumbent on those of us who can speak up to do so.

Anonymous wrote:Maybe I was not clear. Concerns have been brought up to the admin in the past. If the teacher yells in front of me, it means that she knows that this behavior is tolerated by the principal and she can continue with impunity. I want to know what can parents do if the outcome of speaking with the principal is not satisfactory. What is the next step? From reading some of the posts it seems that the principal's power is absolute?

1. Go to the principal and tell him/her what you yourself have witnessed. It does not matter if your child was involved or not. You are an adult with first hand knowledge of what is happening. (If another parent was in there, saw this and did nothing because it wasn't their child, would you be content with that?)

2. If the principal's response doesn't resolve anything, then you go to the principal's superior. The name of that person shouldn't be too difficult to find online. Look at the school division's website.

Keep notes of dates and times, as well as details of what you witness. Who was involved, what was happening etc.

Never mind the gossip of other parents, if you haven't witnessed it yourself leave it out.

The part about being accused of things when the kid WASN'T THERE is frightening to me. What would the administration say to that? Let your attorney ask.

OP, if you DO talk to the principal, try to remain calm and avoid describing the teacher as "wild eyed" and "red faced"... Also avoid mentioning gossip and the teacher's "reputation": stick to facts, and be calm and prepared with specific examples.

Anonymous wrote:Maybe I was not clear. Concerns have been brought up to the admin in the past. If the teacher yells in front of me, it means that she knows that this behavior is tolerated by the principal and she can continue with impunity. I want to know what can parents do if the outcome of speaking with the principal is not satisfactory. What is the next step? From reading some of the posts it seems that the principal's power is absolute?

So you won't talk directly to the principal because "concerns have been bought up to the admin in the past"? By whom? When, exactly? So you won't talk to the principal directly because other parents told you that other people had done it in the past, to no avail? I'll tell you one thing about schools: parents who gossip RARELY know the whole story about another parent's meeting with a principal, etc. It is foolish not to speak directly with the principal yourself because someone told you that it didn't go well for someone else who tried to do that "in the past".

You "want to know what can parents do if the outcome of speaking with the principal is not satisfactory. What is the next step?" You have no idea what the outcome will be if you speak to the principal because YOU HAVEN'T SPOKEN TO THE PRINCIPAL.

"From reading some of the posts it seems that the principal's power is absolute?" This is ridiculous. So right now, you won't talk to the principal because 1. other parents tell you that people have done this "in the past", and 2. people on an anonymous message board have told you that "the principal's power is absolute"? Nobody has written that the "principal's power is absolute", and even if they had, so what? We don't know your principal because we--like you yourself--have not spoken to the principal.

Anonymous wrote:Maybe I was not clear. Concerns have been brought up to the admin in the past. If the teacher yells in front of me, it means that she knows that this behavior is tolerated by the principal and she can continue with impunity. I want to know what can parents do if the outcome of speaking with the principal is not satisfactory. What is the next step? From reading some of the posts it seems that the principal's power is absolute?

That's passive voice, there. What concerns have been brought up to which admin, by whom?

Before you wonder what you can do if speaking to the principal doesn't accomplish what you want it to accomplish, maybe you should try actually speaking to the principal. If the teacher really is as bad as you say, isn't that worth a try?

Anonymous wrote:Maybe I was not clear. Concerns have been brought up to the admin in the past. If the teacher yells in front of me, it means that she knows that this behavior is tolerated by the principal and she can continue with impunity. I want to know what can parents do if the outcome of speaking with the principal is not satisfactory. What is the next step? From reading some of the posts it seems that the principal's power is absolute?

Keep complaining! Contact the superintendent. It isn't rocket science. Speak to the teacher directly about it. Videotape it. Send an anonymous email. Anything other than gossiping, and posting to DCUM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You won't speak directly to the principal about your concerns, or try to schedule a conference with the teacher to discuss your concerns, but you freely admit that you gather information "at the playground every year" about this teacher who "has a reputation". OP, can you not grasp the idea that sometimes playground gossip is just idle prattle that has grown legs?

Or maybe every word of the playground gossip is rock-solid truth. But if OP doesn't want to do anything about it, it doesn't matter either way.

I think it does matter, though. It matters when mothers gossip idly about teachers without stopping to consider that their children will pick up on the attitude, and this makes the classroom environment less than ideal for the students AND the teacher. When your child picks up on the idea that you don't respect his teacher, he isn't going to act in a respectful way to her. Also, what if it isn't true? If the teacher is innocent but the moms who gossip for sport on the playground have taken up her "reputation" to discuss, that isn't going to go away, but will continue to influence other parents.

Intolerable if indeed this is happening. Up the chain with complaints. Be persistent. Lawsuit if necessary.