Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I weren't able to have kids. (We tried everything and then some.) At work, and in our circle of friends, the women with kids really have a sort of lovely community of sorts. How do women like this see women without kids?

I have kids and I don't think there's any lovely community. There are the cliquey, mean girls who have grown up and relish excluding other women. Meaning even if you have kids, you might be excluded from the hive.

So don't waste your time with what other people think of you. If you're looking to build a community, focus on your interests.

I have not found "a community" either... Although there are a few reasons for that:
---I work full-time.
---I adopted as a single mom, and have not had the interest to seek out others in my situation.
---I have never been the most social person
---My daughter is not school age.


OP, like another poster asked..have you considered adoption?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sadly, my childless friends are kind of sad or jerks, though that may be more reflective of me than them. Or, perhaps, it speaks to who they are as individuals rather than as parents or not.

One is bitter and depressed and truly dislikes kids, won't go to showers, etc. Another who had put her career first, now 50 & single, loves children but is lonely and needy. She'd be available every night if I didn't have boundaries. And a younger friend does not hesitate to give parenting advice. She's the most abnoxious.

You sound lovely, OP. How do you see yourself?

That's the opposite of my friends. I have 4 very good childless friends, and they all kick ass. One is a god parent, two have traveled with us, one wants to borrow kids, and the other one is very fun with kids when she sees them.

Lucky

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I weren't able to have kids. (We tried everything and then some.) At work, and in our circle of friends, the women with kids really have a sort of lovely community of sorts. How do women like this see women without kids?

I have kids and I don't think there's any lovely community. There are the cliquey, mean girls who have grown up and relish excluding other women. Meaning even if you have kids, you might be excluded from the hive.

So don't waste your time with what other people think of you. If you're looking to build a community, focus on your interests.

Anonymous wrote:This woman would never experience what you had. They may have more dollars to spend on themselves, more time to invest in themselves. For me the birth of the child is just a next step in development as a woman. They never made that step. It's like a woman who remains virgin, she always will remain on the different step from the woman who had love.

Wow.

Having sex doesn't mean you've been loved, and being loved doesn't necessarily mean you're having sex.
Ask a 14 year that just had her first child, if she's more of a woman than a 30 something who has thought about, decided that children are not appropriate for her and her life goals, and took steps to prevent pregnancy.

I kind of get where you are going, but I think you should work this through a bit. It's offensive right now - that you are judging "womanliness" for an entire population based on whether they've given birth.

I'm AA. I know many older AA women who did not marry and have kids for a variety of reasons. They usually had very full and lovely lives. Two of my great-aunts were this way. Both have passed now, but they live in my memory as the epitome of sophistication and self-determination. I worked with an older AA woman who married twice late in life but had no kids. She had visited all 50 states and 40 countries!

I adore my two and wouldn't trade them for a child-free life, but when I meet someone who doesn't have kids, I figure they have compensations.

Like others have said, it depends on the woman. Frankly, I have no problem understanding single women without children. It's the married women who intentionally choose not to have kids that I don't understand. I don't judge them, I just can't relate. Honestly, I don't really understand the point of getting married if you're not going to have a family (or at least try to have a family). I'd rather stay single and have more freedom, but that's just me, I guess.

Anonymous wrote:I see them as lucky.

Me too. Even though I love love love my baby to the moon and back. I loved life without kids and am a tad jealous of people without kids and also single women. To those women I would say don't even get a dog! Maybe get a cat. Maybe. But you are perfectly positioned to have an excellent career, travel wherever you want, live where you want, retire how you want. The world is yours...enjoy!

This woman would never experience what you had. They may have more dollars to spend on themselves, more time to invest in themselves. For me the birth of the child is just a next step in development as a woman. They never made that step. It's like a woman who remains virgin, she always will remain on the different step from the woman who had love.

Anonymous wrote:My two best friends will never have kids. They are 37. I have two other friends who are 50 with no kids.

I don't see them any particular way. Not having kids is just one aspect of their life. They are not judgmental of my choice to have kids and I would never be judgmental of them. In addition, I would never know if someone is childless on purpose or not (not that, again, would that affect my view of their choice).

Also, the mom communtiy isn't special and deep. I realize it may seem that way because, especially during a certain point while child rearing, our lives our so focused on being moms. But often, that community produces of a few deep bonds.

Not OP, I agree with most of what you say, but I have a very different experience of the mom community, both in my city prior to moving to DC, and here in DC. I find parts of the mom communities to be really deep. I've made good friends, we help each other out (our car is out of commission right now and there are 2 moms helping for a couple of days with drop off and pick up from school - we are incredibly grateful for that!).

Most friendships are not deep, but I think when you do things or recognize like-minded parents in your school communities or neighborhoods, there can be some very deep mom relationships to be found.

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I weren't able to have kids. (We tried everything and then some.) At work, and in our circle of friends, the women with kids really have a sort of lovely community of sorts. How do women like this see women without kids?

Without more information, I just judge people as individuals. I make no generalizations or judgments about why specific couples/women don't have kids, and unless they bring it up or make comments about kids at some point, I don't ask. I don't assume anything, and if they're nice people, I feel glad to have them in my life.

I do have friends from high school and college who are still single and don't have kids (we're in our late 40s now) so if I see them and they seem to really enjoy being around our kids, I wonder if they are broken up about not having their own. But I don't judge them or think anything in particular about them, I just hope they're not sad about it if they seem to really enjoy being around other people's kids.

OP how do you feel, is there something you're worried your friends who are mothers are thinking about you?

I see woman without kids as regular, interesting, loving people, unless they have done something to make me feel otherwise.

I don't really think about it...but since you ask, I assume it is fertility related or not interested in kids. But, the fact that you don't ave kids wouldn't consume my thoughts.

I'm a little envious because they make me remember what I've given up- evenings and weekends, spontaneous travel, as much sleep and free time as I'd like.

But most of my child free friends don't have kids because they don't have partners on the scene, or their partners aren't great guys. So I'd never tell them what I wrote here. And I try not to talk too much about my kid/pregnancy around them. There's no need anyways, we have plenty of other things to talk about.

My two best friends will never have kids. They are 37. I have two other friends who are 50 with no kids.

I don't see them any particular way. Not having kids is just one aspect of their life. They are not judgmental of my choice to have kids and I would never be judgmental of them. In addition, I would never know if someone is childless on purpose or not (not that, again, would that affect my view of their choice).

Also, the mom communtiy isn't special and deep. I realize it may seem that way because, especially during a certain point while child rearing, our lives our so focused on being moms. But often, that community produces of a few deep bonds.

The three most fabulous women I know in my life don't have kids. Kind of makes me wish I'd focused on myself more.

But in general terms I see them as better dressed, wealthier, and able to do more things than me.