Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My cousin's daughter got into Princeton on a fencing scholarship. I plan on signing my 5 year old up this fall.

There are no athletic scholarships to Princeton. Maybe you meant to say she got into Princeton and was a a very good fencer. So fencing may have helped her in admissions.

There are, indeed. no scholarships to the Ivies.

But recruiting by Ivies for the marquis sports is very aggressive.

The Ivy League has a whole system set up --- The Academic Index --- to regulate the effort.

And the FA given by Ivies is 100% in the form of grants and not loans or work study arrangements. So for all practical purposes these are scholarships.

Only if your family qualifies for financial aid. If you can afford to pay full tuition to one of the top DC privates for 2 kids, you are not going to qualify for financial aid. Your typical DCUM "middle class" family with HHI of $200k with one kid in college is not going to receive any aid from Princeton. So being an elite athlete might boost admission chances, but won't make attending an Ivy any more affordable. Same goes for division 3 schools (eg NESCAC).

This is not true about endowment scholarships they are not bound by the same rules as "Princeton" scholarships. Athletes (and many other students who don't qualify for FA) are given these types of scholarships, they are not financial aid.

Can you provide proof of this assertion?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My cousin's daughter got into Princeton on a fencing scholarship. I plan on signing my 5 year old up this fall.

There are no athletic scholarships to Princeton. Maybe you meant to say she got into Princeton and was a a very good fencer. So fencing may have helped her in admissions.

There are, indeed. no scholarships to the Ivies.

But recruiting by Ivies for the marquis sports is very aggressive.

The Ivy League has a whole system set up --- The Academic Index --- to regulate the effort.

And the FA given by Ivies is 100% in the form of grants and not loans or work study arrangements. So for all practical purposes these are scholarships.

Only if your family qualifies for financial aid. If you can afford to pay full tuition to one of the top DC privates for 2 kids, you are not going to qualify for financial aid. Your typical DCUM "middle class" family with HHI of $200k with one kid in college is not going to receive any aid from Princeton. So being an elite athlete might boost admission chances, but won't make attending an Ivy any more affordable. Same goes for division 3 schools (eg NESCAC).

This is not true about endowment scholarships they are not bound by the same rules as "Princeton" scholarships. Athletes (and many other students who don't qualify for FA) are given these types of scholarships, they are not financial aid.

Sailing: Stanford

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My cousin's daughter got into Princeton on a fencing scholarship. I plan on signing my 5 year old up this fall.

There are no athletic scholarships to Princeton. Maybe you meant to say she got into Princeton and was a a very good fencer. So fencing may have helped her in admissions.

There are, indeed. no scholarships to the Ivies.

But recruiting by Ivies for the marquis sports is very aggressive.

The Ivy League has a whole system set up --- The Academic Index --- to regulate the effort.

And the FA given by Ivies is 100% in the form of grants and not loans or work study arrangements. So for all practical purposes these are scholarships.

Only if your family qualifies for financial aid. If you can afford to pay full tuition to one of the top DC privates for 2 kids, you are not going to qualify for financial aid. Your typical DCUM "middle class" family with HHI of $200k with one kid in college is not going to receive any aid from Princeton. So being an elite athlete might boost admission chances, but won't make attending an Ivy any more affordable. Same goes for division 3 schools (eg NESCAC).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My cousin's daughter got into Princeton on a fencing scholarship. I plan on signing my 5 year old up this fall.

There are no athletic scholarships to Princeton. Maybe you meant to say she got into Princeton and was a a very good fencer. So fencing may have helped her in admissions.

There are, indeed. no scholarships to the Ivies.

But recruiting by Ivies for the marquis sports is very aggressive.

The Ivy League has a whole system set up --- The Academic Index --- to regulate the effort.

And the FA given by Ivies is 100% in the form of grants and not loans or work study arrangements. So for all practical purposes these are scholarships.

Great posts by the @11:45 poster -- thoughtful, substantive, and accurate. Some of the other posters appear to be attempting to wind people up, it seems clear. Unfortunately, sports are a topic that brings out the worst in folks more than many other topics.

Anonymous wrote:My cousin's daughter got into Princeton on a fencing scholarship. I plan on signing my 5 year old up this fall.

There are no athletic scholarships to Princeton. Maybe you meant to say she got into Princeton and was a a very good fencer. So fencing may have helped her in admissions.

My cousin's daughter got into Princeton on a fencing scholarship. I plan on signing my 5 year old up this fall.

Anonymous wrote:At the end of day:

It is so competitive now to gain admission to an "IVY" division 1 of 3 college. In light of this, when the majority of the accepted students (70 to 80 %) to these schools play sports (e.g., Williams College), many view the skills in golf, sailing, swimming, lacrosse, tennis, soccer, lacrosse, rowing honed over the primary and secondary school years an added advantage in the admissions sweepstakes. The IVY colleges must field their teams to satisfy the alumni base and their brand. These latter sports represents low hanging fruit for many students and their families in the admissions' game. Middle school students know this as well as their enterprising parents!

Whatever, troll.

At the end of day:

It is so competitive now to gain admission to an "IVY" division 1 of 3 college. In light of this, when the majority of the accepted students (70 to 80 %) to these schools play sports (e.g., Williams College), many view the skills in golf, sailing, swimming, lacrosse, tennis, soccer, lacrosse, rowing honed over the primary and secondary school years an added advantage in the admissions sweepstakes. The IVY colleges must field their teams to satisfy the alumni base and their brand. These latter sports represents low hanging fruit for many students and their families in the admissions' game. Middle school students know this as well as their enterprising parents!

Anonymous wrote:

Please stop shopping this line.

It is NOT accurate any more. Your knowledge is dated at best. I was an all-Ivy athlete/team MVP in the late 1980s (a woman's team sport). I would not make the roster now, and would be hard-pressed to make the roster at a strong Division III program. If you look at strong athletes at area independent schools, the coaches will tell you that this generation's NESCAC player (the multiple all-ISL player who is 5'6" and not 6", and not All-Met), was a former generation's Ivy athlete. In the 1980s, still fairly early days from a Title IX perspective, a determined and competent athlete, particularly in women's sports, could often find a roster spot. Recruiting was fairly haphazard and coaches relied in large part on athletes of strong academic standing self-identifying. Now, recruiting has become "industrialized." Coaches used to hopefully see a few dozen players (the assistant coach driving around the East Coach in a rental car). Now they can see hundreds and even thousands of athletes at club tournaments, showcase events, and it is also easier for players to send in game tape (just upload to YouTube). The number of roster spots are the same but the pool has increased exponentionally. The team at my alma mater in my sport looks like Amazons now! (In the best possible way -- they are BIG BIG BIG and STRONG and FAST and very, very skilled.)

Bottom line: The Ivies are Division I. They require size, speed, and athleticism. At the Division III schools you might be able to have a little less speed or a little less size but you need to be very, very good -- Ivy league starter or even all-Ivy caliber a generation ago.

It is easier to play squash for Princeton than basketball for Duke, but it is not easy. An average or even above average athlete who has played sports since childhood will NOT be good enough to get a look at Princeton, in large part because squash is a sport with a very big international presence. Many Ivy league teams have very few American players. Check out the crew roster for the Harvard heavys -- lots of international athletes. There is a growing international presence for women's sports as well.

Parents -- you don't need to take this on faith (me or the other anonymous poster -- who can tell, right?). Go to a roster for field hockey, or squash, or lacrosse. You will see names and hometowns (and the international presence). For most schools, the Sports Information Dept. has a blurb for each athlete and you will be able to see Under Armour All-American status; junior national team status; all-state status; tennis and squash rankings. You will see the credentials are very, very impressive. And you will see some very strong credentials for Division III teams as well.

Nonsense. We know 2020 is different from 1980 in terms of standards. This applies to the Ivies as well as the SEC or Big Ten. That said, golf, water polo, squash, tennis, sailing etc. all remain easier activities and hooks for the average athlete who begins early enough before their college application to the big and little "Ivies". This was true in the 1970s and 80s and and it is true in the 20 teens. Much easier than trying for the SEC or Big Ten in football, basketball and Track for the barely average athlete. Fact.

On one level, who cares about this argument? People can buy the coaching, private lessons, club participation and they'll see what happens. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't. Why should I bother trying to point out that just because it's statistically much easier to play Ivy league lacrosse than SEC basketball, it doesn't follow that it is easy or attainable or predictable that a given child will be able to make an Ivy league roster?

The only reason I'm bothering is that I've seen more than a few unhappy and burned out kids who seemed to have lost their joy in their sport at least in part because they were the recipient of (well-meant) parental pressure to leverage the sport into Ivy or top NESCAC admission. So if it's possible to add a little reality to the discussion, it's worth it.

However, this is an internet debate on an anonymous board, so nobody will "win" this argument. Fortunately, for those who don't know what to believe, there are a lot of resources out there for parents than can help give clarity to the landscape. Here are a few:
1. The high school coaches have a good sense of the talent level required to play Division I or Division III and can be a very useful resource. If the head coach is involved with the program in younger years, there's nothing wrong with asking what steps to take to help the child develop as an athlete and pursue a future as a college athlete. If it is a sport like swimming, cross country, or track, the coach often will have a great sense of what cut-off times college coaches will be interested in. You can also go online and look at results in college meets to see what times are reflected in such sports.

2. In sports with clubs, the club coach can also be a good resource. You might have to take some of the statements with a bit of a grain of salt sometimes, as club coaches have a bit more of a direct financial incentive in keeping the athlete involved with the carrot of college out there. However, there are still plenty of straight shooting club coaches out there and it's worth talking to them. One indirect way of knowing where your child stacks up is what club team he/she makes, if there are tiered teams (as in lacrosse or soccer). If your child isn't making the top club, that's an early indicator. (In boys' soccer, for example, non-Academy players barely get a look these days from Division I coaches. They overlook some qualified players, but they are using Academy status as a screener.)

3. As mentioned above, mine the college athletic websites for information. They will almost all have player bios that will given HS credentials (all-league, all-state, tournament wins, junior rankings). Does your child have similar credentials? Or will they project out to have similar credentials?

4. Amazon has some decent books on college recruiting, sometimes by sport. Worth browsing the site and perhaps ordering if you are serious about learning more.

5. There's a good website, scholarshipstats.com, that gives you information on such things as the number of HS athletes in a sport and the roster spots open in college (further broken down into Division I and III). That's only part of the story -- look at rosters in the league you want (e.g. Ivy League) to see how many spots might be taken routinely by international students, for example -- but it's good by the numbers.

Bottom line: If your CHILD loves sports and it might be a path to college and/or a passion to be pursued at college, do your homework -- there's lots of information out there -- and be realistic. It's no fun for a child to feel like a failure because they aren't getting recruited as you'd hoped. If your child does have the passion, talent (including body type in here), there are certainly ways to help them pursue that dream. But please don't count on this as your "Plan A," and please don't make your child's sports experience all about the destination (college) instead of the journey.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Squash. My DH grew up in a squash "hotbed" and many of the kids at his school and neighboring schools got into Ivy League schools by playing.

Which private schools in the area have decent squash programs?

Potomac, Episcopal, Madeira, NCS, St Albans, plus some of the public schools like Whitman. Look in the CIVL league for participating schools. Potomac and Episcopal have their own courts, most other schools use squash clubs.

I'm surprised that St. Albans hasn't built squash courts. They've invested in fine new outdoor sports facilities and squash would seem to be a St. Albans "thing."

It is not an official league sport, for one thing. And schools are trying to sustain the programs they had -- it's tough to financially justify adding new ones. Moreover, the epicenter of squash is private coaching, clubs and tournaments -- there's not really a need for schools to build private facilities to meet what demand their might be. Finally, as mentioned above, Ivy squash rosters are very global so it's not actually as much of a pipeline to colleges as some may think.

One data point, don't know if its good or bad. But at a presntation the other day Sidwell athletics said they had 16 kids playing college sports from the class of 2015, evenly divided between DI and DIII. The same presentation made it very clear that academics are the priority at the school with coaches telling parents that if kids need to skip practice for a big test or homework, that they should skip practice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Squash. My DH grew up in a squash "hotbed" and many of the kids at his school and neighboring schools got into Ivy League schools by playing.

Which private schools in the area have decent squash programs?

Potomac, Episcopal, Madeira, NCS, St Albans, plus some of the public schools like Whitman. Look in the CIVL league for participating schools. Potomac and Episcopal have their own courts, most other schools use squash clubs.

GDS probably.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Squash. My DH grew up in a squash "hotbed" and many of the kids at his school and neighboring schools got into Ivy League schools by playing.

Which private schools in the area have decent squash programs?

Potomac, Episcopal, Madeira, NCS, St Albans, plus some of the public schools like Whitman. Look in the CIVL league for participating schools. Potomac and Episcopal have their own courts, most other schools use squash clubs.

I'm surprised that St. Albans hasn't built squash courts. They've invested in fine new outdoor sports facilities and squash would seem to be a St. Albans "thing."