"This particularly resonated with me because this mom is of the same cultural background as me, and we're both doing the best we can manage for our kids. "

The parent working two jobs to put food on the table
The parent moving to a bettter school district/choosing a private or charter
The parent actively campaigning to keep their school district high performing

What do all of these parents have in common the statement above

Sterotype lower, middle, upper class and associated racial labels people want to make not withstanding

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's on podcast. Just download it...it made me really sad. I am AA and grew up privileged in DC. It makes me want to do everything I can to push for change in our city. We have to do something about poverty...not just push it away out of sight.

I'm curious what part of the city did you reside in growing up; did you do public or private schools?

I grew up in Upper NW and attended private schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Failing students? Did you listen to the show? The kids who have parents willing to travel 30 miles away do not have "failing students". It's the schools that are failing those kids. For the most part, parents who are going to extremes to get their kids into better schools are doing so because they value education and want more for their children. They are not unlike you...they just don't have the money to live next door to you. Separate will always be unequal.

Failing schools don't become failing by themselves. It is students that make a school fail.

No one opens a new school and labels it failing.

The same with affluent white schools. No one openeded on and said "this will be a good school". There is no magic.

The parents work with their kids at home. They tutor them, read to them, engage them in activities, volunteer at school, work in PTA, advocate for goid teachers and practices, fundraise for the school. It's a lot of work. It's not just this entitlement tfat the school owes them, it's also what you bring to the school.

I taught in a failing school where many parents did all that you describe. It was not enough to make up for the low quality of the administration and teaching staff, the outdated curriculum, the crumbling building, dysfunctional infrastructure, dearth of the most basic supplies, no library, no gym, lack of "specials" such a music and art, a playground that looked like a prison yard . . . I could go on.

You are 100% wrong about the value that poor people place on education because the vast majority realize it's the most reliable path to a better life. You're also wrong that they're not entitled to it - it's in the Constitution. But if parents are making efforts to instill that lesson at home, then the lesson that sinks in at a failing school is this: you are not going to find that path here. Yeah, there are some extraordinary kids who are able to overcome the psychological barrier that a failing school puts up every day - where just walking in feels like punishment - but by the definition of the word, everyone can't be extraordinary. Kids as young as first grade know when they're in a shitty school (I know, my students told me). The ones who can get out do so; the ones who can't are riding on a vicious cycle of low expectation that starts early and transcends generations.

The lesson in the TAL episode is that if kids can see the path, they're MUCH more likely to get on it. And yeah, that's simplistic but empirically true.

I agree with this statement. Just as a quick anecdote: My child completed PK3 last year in our EOTP neighborhood school--one of those with growing waitlists in recent years. All of my kid's classmates are in-boundary, so I don't know many OOB parents. However, I just met an OOB mom the other day outside of school. She and her husband are getting by, but seem to have somewhat limited resources. However, she managed to lottery into our neighborhood school, and not only drives 30 min one-way from her far NE neighborhood, but she also just recently *got a job* near the school to make the commute doable. That's dedication, IMO.

This particularly resonated with me because this mom is of the same cultural background as me, and we're both doing the best we can manage for our kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Failing students? Did you listen to the show? The kids who have parents willing to travel 30 miles away do not have "failing students". It's the schools that are failing those kids. For the most part, parents who are going to extremes to get their kids into better schools are doing so because they value education and want more for their children. They are not unlike you...they just don't have the money to live next door to you. Separate will always be unequal.

Failing schools don't become failing by themselves. It is students that make a school fail.

No one opens a new school and labels it failing.

The same with affluent white schools. No one openeded on and said "this will be a good school". There is no magic.

The parents work with their kids at home. They tutor them, read to them, engage them in activities, volunteer at school, work in PTA, advocate for goid teachers and practices, fundraise for the school. It's a lot of work. It's not just this entitlement tfat the school owes them, it's also what you bring to the school.

I taught in a failing school where many parents did all that you describe. It was not enough to make up for the low quality of the administration and teaching staff, the outdated curriculum, the crumbling building, dysfunctional infrastructure, dearth of the most basic supplies, no library, no gym, lack of "specials" such a music and art, a playground that looked like a prison yard . . . I could go on.

You are 100% wrong about the value that poor people place on education because the vast majority realize it's the most reliable path to a better life. You're also wrong that they're not entitled to it - it's in the Constitution. But if parents are making efforts to instill that lesson at home, then the lesson that sinks in at a failing school is this: you are not going to find that path here. Yeah, there are some extraordinary kids who are able to overcome the psychological barrier that a failing school puts up every day - where just walking in feels like punishment - but by the definition of the word, everyone can't be extraordinary. Kids as young as first grade know when they're in a shitty school (I know, my students told me). The ones who can get out do so; the ones who can't are riding on a vicious cycle of low expectation that starts early and transcends generations.

The lesson in the TAL episode is that if kids can see the path, they're MUCH more likely to get on it. And yeah, that's simplistic but empirically true.

Anonymous wrote:We have inherited and propagate massive generational wealth disparities in this country and city. So, good education opportunities become the product of rationing. Until this dynamic changes, we will have inequities. Is anyone surprised by the fact that everyone wants the best for their child? The parents, to the extent that their objections are performance and not racially based, should not be chided for wanting their child to get the best education. It is the rationing part that sets up this poisonous dynamic.

The subject is so toxic, especially in DC (Exhibit #1 - this message board), that most parents can't agree on the what the problems actually are, let alone changes that might actually improve outcomes for some without worsening (perceived) outcomes for others. Sigh...

I love you. I don't have enough pluses to give for this comment. Until we understand the degree to which all of us (with the full support of the US government) are complicit in perpetuating the wealth gap, there is no way to have an honest discussion about the achievement gap.

Anonymous wrote:
I think you are wrong about this. Often a schools scores could be irrelevant, too often people look at the racial makeup and decide it must be a poor school. I wish it was not true, but it is startling how often this is the case and I have seen it Missouri.

Or that the children attending are criminals. Or that they don't care about education. This turned my stomach. The driving idea behind universal public education is that everyone is entitled (yes, the E word in a positive light) to a solid K-12 education. Where did we go wrong?

Anonymous wrote:DC has and is still ignoring the black middle class that fled to PG, Howard & Charles county. They should be actively pursuing these people back into the city. A city with a Large white professional/wealthy class and a majority poor black one is a disaster waiting to happen. The black middle class could even things out in neighborhoods and schools

This is so true. I grew up white and privileged an NWDC and every single one of the POC I knew growing up, were from the middle and upper-middle class that fled to PG, often to old-guard AA neighborhoods like Temple Hills. The journalist in the first segment (which I listened to three times, because it made me so angry, and made me question every single part of my and my parents' complicity in these problems) asked some very, very good questions about the schools continuing to fail students.

What gets me is why do the schools have to fail to this degree -- 15 years of provisional accreditation or dead pigeons falling through the roof -- before anyone addresses the problems? I have a friend who left the Philly public schools to teach in the underserved Catholics there (which are nominally better) for her own mental health. She couldn't serve the children the way she wanted/needed and fight the uphill battle against her administration.

Unfortunately, Kozol's groundbreaking works are STILL valid all these years later. We should be far more ashamed than we are. Meanwhile, on this very board we debate whether the exmissions from TJ are more impressive than from Sidwell. Think about that for a moment.

Crabs in a bucket.

We have inherited and propagate massive generational wealth disparities in this country and city. So, good education opportunities become the product of rationing. Until this dynamic changes, we will have inequities. Is anyone surprised by the fact that everyone wants the best for their child? The parents, to the extent that their objections are performance and not racially based, should not be chided for wanting their child to get the best education. It is the rationing part that sets up this poisonous dynamic.

The subject is so toxic, especially in DC (Exhibit #1 - this message board), that most parents can't agree on the what the problems actually are, let alone changes that might actually improve outcomes for some without worsening (perceived) outcomes for others. Sigh...

In my state if you end up in a failing school you have a right to transfer to any other public school or some private schools (the state I think limits how much they'll pay). I know there are kids in my DC's private school who take advantage of that program. It works. You can use it.

In addition to that, our real estate is cheap, cheap. You can rent an apartment in the best school zone for $600/month.

So can you explain the the problem still remains the same?
In the city there are still failing black schools.

If integration was successful why when they stopped making efforts to bus kids everything naturally went back to what it was, failing black schools, thriving white schools?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Failing students? Did you listen to the show? The kids who have parents willing to travel 30 miles away do not have "failing students". It's the schools that are failing those kids. For the most part, parents who are going to extremes to get their kids into better schools are doing so because they value education and want more for their children. They are not unlike you...they just don't have the money to live next door to you. Separate will always be unequal.

Failing schools don't become failing by themselves. It is students that make a school fail.

No one opens a new school and labels it failing.

The same with affluent white schools. No one openeded on and said "this will be a good school". There is no magic.

The parents work with their kids at home. They tutor them, read to them, engage them in activities, volunteer at school, work in PTA, advocate for goid teachers and practices, fundraise for the school. It's a lot of work. It's not just this entitlement tfat the school owes them, it's also what you bring to the school.

I can't stand it when people start throwing the "E" word around. Entitlement is not a problem with most black people, trust me. All that effort and hard work you talk about, it takes time and money. None of which poor hard working people have to spare without going far above and beyond what is normally expected from parents. Yet many such parents do go above and beyond to ensure their kids are not stuck in the same vicious cycle they are in. But when the system is stacked against such super hard working parents and they try to take advantage of a better system (what reasonable person would not?) they are labelled as entitled. Black people care about education. Black people care about their kids. Black people are worried about negative influence by white kids on their sweet children too.

Racism against whites exists. Many whites grow up thinking they are superior because that's what is explicitly stated or heavily implied in our society. When they face the reality other races are just as smart or smarter, they are often angry, fearful or shocked. Racism against whites must stop!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Failing students? Did you listen to the show? The kids who have parents willing to travel 30 miles away do not have "failing students". It's the schools that are failing those kids. For the most part, parents who are going to extremes to get their kids into better schools are doing so because they value education and want more for their children. They are not unlike you...they just don't have the money to live next door to you. Separate will always be unequal.

Failing schools don't become failing by themselves. It is students that make a school fail.

No one opens a new school and labels it failing.

The same with affluent white schools. No one openeded on and said "this will be a good school". There is no magic.

The parents work with their kids at home. They tutor them, read to them, engage them in activities, volunteer at school, work in PTA, advocate for goid teachers and practices, fundraise for the school. It's a lot of work. It's not just this entitlement tfat the school owes them, it's also what you bring to the school.

I think you are wrong about this. Often a schools scores could be irrelevant, too often people look at the racial makeup and decide it must be a poor school. I wish it was not true, but it is startling how often this is the case and I have seen it Missouri.

Anonymous wrote:
Failing students? Did you listen to the show? The kids who have parents willing to travel 30 miles away do not have "failing students". It's the schools that are failing those kids. For the most part, parents who are going to extremes to get their kids into better schools are doing so because they value education and want more for their children. They are not unlike you...they just don't have the money to live next door to you. Separate will always be unequal.

Failing schools don't become failing by themselves. It is students that make a school fail.

No one opens a new school and labels it failing.

The same with affluent white schools. No one openeded on and said "this will be a good school". There is no magic.

The parents work with their kids at home. They tutor them, read to them, engage them in activities, volunteer at school, work in PTA, advocate for goid teachers and practices, fundraise for the school. It's a lot of work. It's not just this entitlement tfat the school owes them, it's also what you bring to the school.

Anonymous wrote:It's on podcast. Just download it...it made me really sad. I am AA and grew up privileged in DC. It makes me want to do everything I can to push for change in our city. We have to do something about poverty...not just push it away out of sight.

I'm curious what part of the city did you reside in growing up; did you do public or private schools?

DC has and is still ignoring the black middle class that fled to PG, Howard & Charles county. They should be actively pursuing these people back into the city. A city with a Large white professional/wealthy class and a majority poor black one is a disaster waiting to happen. The black middle class could even things out in neighborhoods and schools