Anonymous
Post 08/18/2015 07:28     Subject: Re:Vent - Camp not what she thought it would be
Anonymous wrote:
Just curious PP, but what kind of message do you think this would send to this child?


Not PP, but:

that it's ok to walk away from unhappiness. Adults do it all the time (finding a better job, moving to a better place, getting out of a bad relationship) and they are thought of as clever. A child does the same, and s/he's a quitter and a loser who will never amount to anything in life. This concept needs to die.


I don't agree with you, based on the circumstances described. It is ok to walk away from real unhappiness - a camp where you are being bullied, have no friends, or there is some other terrible circumstance. It's not ok to just up and walk off from everything that isn't as wonderful as you thought it would be. Adults don't just quit a "bleh" job without something else lined up. If they go out on a first date with someone who is boring, they don't just get up and walk out on it. The concept that everything is going to be terrific and perfect all of the time is not what needs to be taught to kids, it sets unrealistic expectations that are not going to be met in real life.


The clique thing is bad enough in my book to call the experience off. Clearly the people in charge have no idea how to run the camp, at the very least.

As to not walking out of a boring first date, you're confusing manners with striving for happiness. Of course you don't walk out from a first date because it's boring. That's manners. You don't set up another date and let the person know there's no future for the two of you. That's striving for one's happiness.

And the last part of your post shows clearly that you are not getting my point.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2015 15:35     Subject: Re:Vent - Camp not what she thought it would be
Just curious PP, but what kind of message do you think this would send to this child?


Not PP, but:

that it's ok to walk away from unhappiness. Adults do it all the time (finding a better job, moving to a better place, getting out of a bad relationship) and they are thought of as clever. A child does the same, and s/he's a quitter and a loser who will never amount to anything in life. This concept needs to die.


I don't agree with you, based on the circumstances described. It is ok to walk away from real unhappiness - a camp where you are being bullied, have no friends, or there is some other terrible circumstance. It's not ok to just up and walk off from everything that isn't as wonderful as you thought it would be. Adults don't just quit a "bleh" job without something else lined up. If they go out on a first date with someone who is boring, they don't just get up and walk out on it. The concept that everything is going to be terrific and perfect all of the time is not what needs to be taught to kids, it sets unrealistic expectations that are not going to be met in real life.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2015 15:23     Subject: Vent - Camp not what she thought it would be
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ask her if she wants to come home and make up some family excuse and bring her home.


Just curious PP, but what kind of message do you think this would send to this child?


No the PP but to me it sends the message that when people are enjoying a place or activity that is totally optional, they leave.

Really there is not gold medal for staying at summer camp. Its supposed to be fun. If it's not, why stay? Come home, try another camp.



It sends a message that the child can't handle anything without mom and dad. It sends a message you don't believe she can succeed in a social situation where maturity and adjustment is necessary. It sends a message that she was right to doubt whether she really belonged with her friends. That will not help her and will probably make her feel bad about herself when she sees those peers again outside of camp. Not helping at all.

There is no medal for staying but there is a reward she can win- learning to navigate a new situation and enjoying the activities once an adjustment begins.

Better now than her first week of college.


But she isn't college age yet, she might not even be a teen yet. I am not saying to go in and get her but please don't think kids should be treated like college kids at the age of 12.

OP, 3 weeks is a long time for a first time camp. And yes, my daughter had the same thing at one camp. Some parents ship their kids off all summer starting at 8yrs old and those camps have to make those kids feel loved and wanted. They want them to come back. They are their bread and butter. Guaranteed money prepaid by January. The history, competition, and years attended add to that. A newbie that is older than 10yrs old will always feel left out a little. Let her finish out and decide what to do next year.


Indeed. While I don't agree with the fact that she should finish camp, and I think that she should be brought home immediately due to the disparity of treatment (see the "coohort" bit OP wrote about), ITA with you that 12-year-olds shouldn't be held to college-aged people standards.

There's such a thing as age-appropriate behaviour, and such a thing as gradual development. Too many people conveniently forget that.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2015 15:20     Subject: Vent - Camp not what she thought it would be
Anonymous wrote:No you're wrong, it tells her that her parents are always there to catch her when she falls and that she can rely on them when she feels like she cannot rely on anyone else.

This is not a bad thing.


Amen to this.

It's summer camp, people. Not a doctorate in genetics or something really important.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2015 15:18     Subject: Vent - Camp not what she thought it would be
Anonymous wrote:Visited DD this past weekend--one week down, two more to go--and she's not really happy. This is her first summer at this particular camp, but most everyone, including a handful of good friends, has been going for years. She's very homesick, and feels like an outsider on the fringes of everything, because not only is there a big emphasis on the achievements/history of this particular cohort, but also there are quite a few activities that don't fit her temperament (drama/skits, and other performance-based pursuits). I'm sure the counselors or even her friends could be helpful to her, but she refuses to admit to anyone (other than her mom and me) how she feels. She doesn't want to be known as the girl who feels homesick or like she doesn't fit in. I totally get that, and don't feel comfortable betraying her confidence so haven't said anything to the director or counselors.

On the one hand, I share her anger a bit at all the hoo-ha concerning the longtime campers. I don't begrudge those campers for their experience but it would have been nice to know before signing up that this would have flavored so much of this summer's camp experience. On the other hand, maybe another child would have dove right in and felt more at ease? I don't know.

I guess I'm looking for confirmation that her overall experience at this camp, while perhaps not the most upbeat or life-changing that we all had hoped, will still be worthwhile is some way.


So let me see if I understand it clearly: some children are being fawned over because they're "long time campers" and their achievements are held in higher regard than those of other children?

What a horrible message. It encourage "cliquy", queen-bee behaviour and all kind of things you don't want your child to learn.

Preferential treatment of a group of children over others would be reason enough for me as a parent to withdraw my kid stats.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2015 15:14     Subject: Vent - Camp not what she thought it would be
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ask her if she wants to come home and make up some family excuse and bring her home.


Just curious PP, but what kind of message do you think this would send to this child?


Not PP, but:

that it's ok to walk away from unhappiness. Adults do it all the time (finding a better job, moving to a better place, getting out of a bad relationship) and they are thought of as clever. A child does the same, and s/he's a quitter and a loser who will never amount to anything in life. This concept needs to die.
Anonymous
Post 08/14/2015 18:28     Subject: Vent - Camp not what she thought it would be
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ask her if she wants to come home and make up some family excuse and bring her home.


Just curious PP, but what kind of message do you think this would send to this child?


She is a kid. And, the message would be that home is always a safe place. At 14 or so, that's still a fine message to send.
Anonymous
Post 08/12/2015 12:10     Subject: Vent - Camp not what she thought it would be
Hope everything works out, OP!
Anonymous
Post 08/12/2015 12:08     Subject: Re:Vent - Camp not what she thought it would be
Was this visiting day for campers who had only been there one week? If so, I think that's very odd. The entire point of camp is for kids to be away from their parents do why would a camp schedule visiting day one week into it?
Anonymous
Post 08/12/2015 09:51     Subject: Re:Vent - Camp not what she thought it would be
Anonymous wrote:I'm curious to know what you ended up doing, OP.


OP here--thanks for asking, PP. And thanks to all who chimed in with very good advice.

So far, I've done nothing--no reaching out to the counselors or the camp director. DD has either been super busy or hates us because we have had no contact with her at all, either (her last letter to us was written the day before visiting day). I'm hoping it's the former; I know that she was on an extended camp out for a few days, and maybe a letter will come today.

I won't lie; I am still a bit worried. But I do believe in my daughter. I think she has the ability not just to stick it out but also to find joy in her surroundings.

If we could do it over again, we would not have gone to visiting day; as many pointed out, one week in is way too soon and I think that knowing that we were coming allowed her to waste energy strategizing a way to leave early (and somehow still save face). We had felt compelled to go, though, because we knew that other parents were going and we didn't want her to feel left out or unloved. Part of me is hopeful that once we left she may have actually felt relief--as in, "whew, that's over with--now let's get on with having fun and new adventures and making new friends."

We'll find out this weekend!

Anonymous
Post 08/11/2015 18:37     Subject: Re:Vent - Camp not what she thought it would be
I'm curious to know what you ended up doing, OP.
Anonymous
Post 08/11/2015 16:08     Subject: Vent - Camp not what she thought it would be
I agree that pulling her would be a bad idea. Tell her, if it is real bad to talk to a counselor, no doubt they have plenty of experience in this matter.

But also consider that different people have different levels of i.dependence, especially.at this age. My son loved any time spent away from home. He would go on 3 week backpacking trips without blinking an eye, or sleep away camps and never feel homesick. He went off to college and has been home maybe 3 months total in the three years he has been away, mostly in the first year.

My DD on the other hand has always wanted to stay home more. When she was thirteen she went to camp and called three days in homesick and begging to come home. Eventually she enjoyed the experience, but never went away to camp after that. We are now tryi.g to psych her up for college and struggling! It just depends.

She is glad we didnt allow her to leave that camp, but she learned that she just isnt that interested in running off and not being around familiar surroundings.

The only problem is that I think she sees how independent DS is and is sometimes jelous, but we try to stress that they are different people, which is importent for most parents to understand; each kid is different and you have to find out how best to parent each individual kid.
Anonymous
Post 08/09/2015 07:20     Subject: Vent - Camp not what she thought it would be
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ask her if she wants to come home and make up some family excuse and bring her home.


Just curious PP, but what kind of message do you think this would send to this child?


No the PP but to me it sends the message that when people are enjoying a place or activity that is totally optional, they leave.

Really there is not gold medal for staying at summer camp. Its supposed to be fun. If it's not, why stay? Come home, try another camp.



It sends a message that the child can't handle anything without mom and dad. It sends a message you don't believe she can succeed in a social situation where maturity and adjustment is necessary. It sends a message that she was right to doubt whether she really belonged with her friends. That will not help her and will probably make her feel bad about herself when she sees those peers again outside of camp. Not helping at all.

There is no medal for staying but there is a reward she can win- learning to navigate a new situation and enjoying the activities once an adjustment begins.

Better now than her first week of college.


But no, it doesn't. It only sends that message to you as the parent because you want it to.

You go somewhere crappy and it isn't what you think. you don't like the accommodations, you don't like the food, you don't like the people - so you decide you would rather be at home, and you leave. Maybe you call a friend to come get you, maybe you take a cab, etc A kid is making the same choice except of course they have to call mom/dad to help them leave.

And you are totally naive and ridiculous if you think that somehow going to summer camp as a 12 yr old is then going to remove the homesickness the first week of college. That is absolutely still going to happen. Going to college is a massive change and is in no way comparable to a few weeks of summer camp.