Anonymous
07/08/2015 18:45
Subject: Christian bakeries v. the GLBT communtiy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So someone clarify this....if selling a cake to a gay couple for a wedding is "participating", why isn't selling a gun to a murder "participating" in the murder?
Because baking a cake or producing photography is creating art to participate in the event.
For me, it is similar to the artists saying that certain politicians who do not share their beliefs may not use their music in their events, even if said politician purchased the music legally and paid the ASCAP or BMI fees.
The politician might argue that the music is just background to contribute to the mood of the event, but the artist who created the music feels that by lending their legally purchased creation, built through their own artisitc talent, in some way communicates the message that they agree with or endorse the politician or are helping the politician to further causes that the artist does not believe in.
Singers often pull their legally purchased songs and refuse to participate in various events through their recorded music using just this argument.
It is the exact same argument that these bakers and photographers are making and it is just as legitimate as the music artist who refuses to let Mitt Romney or Ted Cruz use their sons as background for their events.
Creating wedding cakes and taking beautiful pictures is art and is a personal expression, just as music is.
.
Excellent explanation!!
Anonymous
07/08/2015 18:40
Subject: Christian bakeries v. the GLBT communtiy
Maybe Hobby Lobby can establish a National Museum of Wedding Cake Art adjacent to the new Binle Museum. I'd love to see the artistry of a cake depicting men riding dinosaurs through the Grand Canyon in 3000 BC.
Anonymous
07/08/2015 18:29
Subject: Christian bakeries v. the GLBT communtiy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:All this hair-splitting belongs in the gov't arena. A private business can do whatever the heck they want. Freedom of choice is no freedom from consequences, right? LOL
Can they refuse black people? Obviously not. Did you miss the entire civil rights movement?
They weren't refusing to serve gay people. They were refusing a to enter into a contract for a specific type of event.
That changes nothing. Their grounds for refusal is still the same.
This was supposed to have been settled 50 years ago, with a lunch counter in Greensboro NC that refused to serve blacks. This is *NO* different.
The courts and the laws of the land already said they cannot deny service or refuse the contract. It is unacceptable and unlawful for you to try and turn the hands of time backwards to undo that.
It is apples and oranges.
Anonymous
07/08/2015 18:27
Subject: Christian bakeries v. the GLBT communtiy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So someone clarify this....if selling a cake to a gay couple for a wedding is "participating", why isn't selling a gun to a murder "participating" in the murder?
Because baking a cake or producing photography is creating art to participate in the event.
.
Is there a place card for the baker at the reception? is the baker in the wedding pics?
If not, they didn't participate.
Creating art for something is participating.
Art is different than producing a product. Art is an incredibly emotional, personal expression. An artist, no matter what their medium, should not be coerced to participate in or produce a creation for anything they do not feel like having their art be a part of.
If you were an artist you would understand the personal nature of the creative process and why no one should be forced to create art for an event that conflicts with their values.
You see a box of flour, some sugar and some eggs. You are wrong.
Give me a break. A baker is not an artist any more than a hairdresser is.
Oh please.
You go home tonight and try to create and decorate a wedding cake. Not just a regular wedding cake, but an amazing, beautiful and tasteful wedding cake, with sugar flowers and perfect icing.
Then come back tomorrow and post a picture here and we will tell you whether or not creating a wedding cake is indeed art and a creative process.
Making a wedding cake is art. Pure and simple.
We are not talking about bran muffins and blueberry cobbler here.
I love blueberry cobbler. Will a Christian baker make it for my gay wedding?
I am not a professional baker, but I am a Christian and I make a fabulous blueberry cobbler. I would make it for you any time you want to come to my house to eat it, or I could give it to you as a gift. I would not, however, make it as a part of your wedding celebration.
Anonymous
07/08/2015 18:25
Subject: Christian bakeries v. the GLBT communtiy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So someone clarify this....if selling a cake to a gay couple for a wedding is "participating", why isn't selling a gun to a murder "participating" in the murder?
Because baking a cake or producing photography is creating art to participate in the event.
.
Is there a place card for the baker at the reception? is the baker in the wedding pics?
If not, they didn't participate.
Creating art for something is participating.
Art is different than producing a product. Art is an incredibly emotional, personal expression. An artist, no matter what their medium, should not be coerced to participate in or produce a creation for anything they do not feel like having their art be a part of.
If you were an artist you would understand the personal nature of the creative process and why no one should be forced to create art for an event that conflicts with their values.
You see a box of flour, some sugar and some eggs. You are wrong.
Give me a break. A baker is not an artist any more than a hairdresser is.
Oh please.
You go home tonight and try to create and decorate a wedding cake. Not just a regular wedding cake, but an amazing, beautiful and tasteful wedding cake, with sugar flowers and perfect icing.
Then come back tomorrow and post a picture here and we will tell you whether or not creating a wedding cake is indeed art and a creative process.
Making a wedding cake is art. Pure and simple.
We are not talking about bran muffins and blueberry cobbler here.
I love blueberry cobbler. Will a Christian baker make it for my gay wedding?
Anonymous
07/08/2015 18:23
Subject: Christian bakeries v. the GLBT communtiy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:All this hair-splitting belongs in the gov't arena. A private business can do whatever the heck they want. Freedom of choice is no freedom from consequences, right? LOL
Can they refuse black people? Obviously not. Did you miss the entire civil rights movement?
They weren't refusing to serve gay people. They were refusing a to enter into a contract for a specific type of event.
That changes nothing. Their grounds for refusal is still the same.
This was supposed to have been settled 50 years ago, with a lunch counter in Greensboro NC that refused to serve blacks. This is *NO* different.
The courts and the laws of the land already said they cannot deny service or refuse the contract. It is unacceptable and unlawful for you to try and turn the hands of time backwards to undo that.
Anonymous
07/08/2015 18:18
Subject: Christian bakeries v. the GLBT communtiy
Anonymous wrote:What if someone asked you to bake a phallus cake for a gay weeding? Should you have The right to refuse?
I'd like some gay weeding as my yard is a mess and my current gardener has been quite despondent since the Donald starting running his mouth about the immigration of Mexican rapists.
Anonymous
07/08/2015 18:17
Subject: Christian bakeries v. the GLBT communtiy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So someone clarify this....if selling a cake to a gay couple for a wedding is "participating", why isn't selling a gun to a murder "participating" in the murder?
Because baking a cake or producing photography is creating art to participate in the event.
.
Is there a place card for the baker at the reception? is the baker in the wedding pics?
If not, they didn't participate.
Creating art for something is participating.
Art is different than producing a product. Art is an incredibly emotional, personal expression. An artist, no matter what their medium, should not be coerced to participate in or produce a creation for anything they do not feel like having their art be a part of.
If you were an artist you would understand the personal nature of the creative process and why no one should be forced to create art for an event that conflicts with their values.
You see a box of flour, some sugar and some eggs. You are wrong.
Give me a break. A baker is not an artist any more than a hairdresser is.
Oh please.
You go home tonight and try to create and decorate a wedding cake. Not just a regular wedding cake, but an amazing, beautiful and tasteful wedding cake, with sugar flowers and perfect icing.
Then come back tomorrow and post a picture here and we will tell you whether or not creating a wedding cake is indeed art and a creative process.
Making a wedding cake is art. Pure and simple.
We are not talking about bran muffins and blueberry cobbler here.
Anonymous
07/08/2015 18:04
Subject: Christian bakeries v. the GLBT communtiy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The bakery should just tell the lesbians that if they insist on a cake, they will make a wedding cake with Satans face with the warning that the lesbians are going to burn in hell. Then the lesbos have no case. The bakery baked them a cake for their special day and the bakery owner was able to exercise his religious beliefs and freedom of speech.
Also, they should add a generous helping of laxative to the mix.
Why do you want someone who you think hates you to make your food? This is as stupid as pissing off your waitress.
Of course, the gays don't really care about the cake, it's all about demonstrating power and humiliating people.
What's a bit strange is that I can't imagine that the gays would want to do business with someone who didn't think that their wedding was going to be the most marvelous, absolutely fabulous event ever!!!!!
Can you imagine a town that doesn't have a long, long list of wedding cake bakers from whom to choose?
Anonymous
07/08/2015 17:58
Subject: Christian bakeries v. the GLBT communtiy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So someone clarify this....if selling a cake to a gay couple for a wedding is "participating", why isn't selling a gun to a murder "participating" in the murder?
Because baking a cake or producing photography is creating art to participate in the event.
.
Is there a place card for the baker at the reception? is the baker in the wedding pics?
If not, they didn't participate.
Creating art for something is participating.
Art is different than producing a product. Art is an incredibly emotional, personal expression. An artist, no matter what their medium, should not be coerced to participate in or produce a creation for anything they do not feel like having their art be a part of.
If you were an artist you would understand the personal nature of the creative process and why no one should be forced to create art for an event that conflicts with their values.
You see a box of flour, some sugar and some eggs. You are wrong.
Give me a break. A baker is not an artist any more than a hairdresser is.
Anonymous
07/08/2015 17:46
Subject: Christian bakeries v. the GLBT communtiy
Anonymous wrote:"Christian" bakeries and other businesses should self-identify so people with a genuine moral compass can avoid them.
Or, as I do, go out of my way to patronize them.
Anonymous
07/08/2015 17:45
Subject: Christian bakeries v. the GLBT communtiy
What if someone asked you to bake a phallus cake for a gay weeding? Should you have The right to refuse?
Anonymous
07/08/2015 17:44
Subject: Christian bakeries v. the GLBT communtiy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So someone clarify this....if selling a cake to a gay couple for a wedding is "participating", why isn't selling a gun to a murder "participating" in the murder?
Because baking a cake or producing photography is creating art to participate in the event.
.
Is there a place card for the baker at the reception? is the baker in the wedding pics?
If not, they didn't participate.
Creating art for something is participating.
Art is different than producing a product. Art is an incredibly emotional, personal expression. An artist, no matter what their medium, should not be coerced to participate in or produce a creation for anything they do not feel like having their art be a part of.
If you were an artist you would understand the personal nature of the creative process and why no one should be forced to create art for an event that conflicts with their values.
You see a box of flour, some sugar and some eggs. You are wrong.
Anonymous
07/08/2015 17:33
Subject: Christian bakeries v. the GLBT communtiy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So someone clarify this....if selling a cake to a gay couple for a wedding is "participating", why isn't selling a gun to a murder "participating" in the murder?
Because baking a cake or producing photography is creating art to participate in the event.
.
Is there a place card for the baker at the reception? is the baker in the wedding pics?
If not, they didn't participate.
Anonymous
07/08/2015 14:59
Subject: Christian bakeries v. the GLBT communtiy
Anonymous wrote:So someone clarify this....if selling a cake to a gay couple for a wedding is "participating", why isn't selling a gun to a murder "participating" in the murder?
Because baking a cake or producing photography is creating art to participate in the event.
For me, it is similar to the artists saying that certain politicians who do not share their beliefs may not use their music in their events, even if said politician purchased the music legally and paid the ASCAP or BMI fees.
The politician might argue that the music is just background to contribute to the mood of the event, but the artist who created the music feels that by lending their legally purchased creation, built through their own artisitc talent, in some way communicates the message that they agree with or endorse the politician or are helping the politician to further causes that the artist does not believe in.
Singers often pull their legally purchased songs and refuse to participate in various events through their recorded music using just this argument.
It is the exact same argument that these bakers and photographers are making and it is just as legitimate as the music artist who refuses to let Mitt Romney or Ted Cruz use their sons as background for their events.
Creating wedding cakes and taking beautiful pictures is art and is a personal expression, just as music is.
.