Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is he making? It's ok, this is anonymous.
Who does he work for? What is his background?
How long has he been working in the field?

In the cleared world you make a lot more. He has worked for about 5 companies in 10 years. He jumps for money. He's been in for about 12 years, but had a lengthy career prior. You absolutely will do better with a CS degree. Masters does not seem as important, but understanding both test and basic development is important.

CS or similar technical degree...EE or Physics, for example, will do fine. Biology degree not so much....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are american, and want the field, look at DoD contractors for classified work. In cleared jobs, you need citizenship. No H1B's/

+1, there are far more developers than testers. My husband has never had an issue getting a job when he needed or wanted a new one and it pays decently. If you know basic code and software development, there is very little competition.

+1, there is very high demand for good technical talent.

Thank you for the information- this has been very helpful.

If anyone else has advice, it is also appreciated.

Have a great week everyone!

Anonymous wrote:Makes sense.

What software languages are best to focus on these days?

.net and JavaScript frameworks (angularjs, node, ember)

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP who suggested the hacker schools and I find it hilarious that you all think that QA jobs are all being outsourced. Maybe you aren't very good at your job?

OP, as long as you're smart and apply for jobs at technology companies where software development is part of the core value proposition, you'll have a great career ahead of you! By this I mean you need to look at Google / Facebook / Amazon / Apple / startups, not the shit Fortune 500 IT sweatshops that think coders are socially awkward button pushers or some consulting sweatshop like Accenture that will bring you in to fix buggy code written 20 years ago.

Starting salary for QA engineers is $80K+ at these places I mentioned. They frequently hire out of hacker schools. If you're a fast learner, now is a better time than ever to make a career change to software. Don't listen to these downers, look up the numbers in the link I listed!

Hello, you are on DCUM, not Berkeley Parents.

Makes sense.

What software languages are best to focus on these days?

Anonymous wrote:What is he making? It's ok, this is anonymous.
Who does he work for? What is his background?
How long has he been working in the field?

In the cleared world you make a lot more. He has worked for about 5 companies in 10 years. He jumps for money. He's been in for about 12 years, but had a lengthy career prior. You absolutely will do better with a CS degree. Masters does not seem as important, but understanding both test and basic development is important.

What is he making? It's ok, this is anonymous.
Who does he work for? What is his background?
How long has he been working in the field?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hacker school PP here.

You'll notice that some posters will refer to having degrees in "IT" or having the "IT" department outsourced. No respectable tech firm puts testing in the IT department - that's for buying monitors and replacing keyboards when they break.

You want a job in "computer science" or "software engineering," these are the jobs that are on the rise and will never be outsourced. Be careful of the advice you're getting and be wary of ops people bemoaning the end of software when in reality it's because they don't have the skills to compete.

Bullcrap! How many years of experience do you have?

Not sure why years of experience matter. You can have 20 years of experience in software, but really only the last 3-5 matter since frameworks and best practices change so frequently. In addition, this is a vanity metric because in software, 3 years of doing things the better way is worth far more than 20 years of doing things the inefficient way.

But sure, I'll bite. I'm in my mid-20s and make a 6-figure salary in software, which is exactly the point - this is a lucrative field that does not take much experience, just pure brainpower. I am not being outsourced because my job takes real technical/coding skills, and I'm efficient and use the latest tools (ie: Selenium) instead of clicking around manually.

Now tell me, what is your experience? What type of company? What type of testing do you do?

I bill $125 an hour on a 2000 hr scale, and yes I have more experience than you, 25+, and an IC. Guess what - ur making maybe early 6 figures, but that's it - u have reached your max thanks to all the outsourcing. I'm a developer, and my wife is a self taught Selenium tester..., and her rate has actually regressed from the late 90's when she did manual testing. What you're calling lucrative now was the norm mid 90's salary, with tons of US jobs.

My husband is not making early 6 figures as a tester.

Ok....I am not a SW tester but rather a scientist/algorithmic developer. I work with the SW staff and assist the testing staff -- I am more concerned with system performance -- both from a SWAP perspective and technical perspective: to make sure we reach or customer expectations.

The job of a QA tester is to ensure the system works as required. For software, you are only concerned with the programs -- mostly, did the programmers do everything correctly? Back when I was hiring for that role (mid 90's), we were not able to get anyone good for under 60K (again mid 90's). Since our salaries were similar, we just did it ourselves. From my perspective, it was mind-numbing work, but...

Since then, my salary has just about tripled. And I no longer write software. Testing properly is incredibly important. Look at the recent OPM hack....


In my case, I am currently dealing with a problem because the systems tester (HW & SW) designed the test -- in spite of what was asked for -- in a manner where the physical input is not the same. When I say co-located, I mean within cm of each other; mm would be preferred. He placed the instruments 10 m to avoid cross talk. My analysis is not virtually impossible, as the physical inputs are not the same.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hacker school PP here.

You'll notice that some posters will refer to having degrees in "IT" or having the "IT" department outsourced. No respectable tech firm puts testing in the IT department - that's for buying monitors and replacing keyboards when they break.

You want a job in "computer science" or "software engineering," these are the jobs that are on the rise and will never be outsourced. Be careful of the advice you're getting and be wary of ops people bemoaning the end of software when in reality it's because they don't have the skills to compete.

Bullcrap! How many years of experience do you have?

Not sure why years of experience matter. You can have 20 years of experience in software, but really only the last 3-5 matter since frameworks and best practices change so frequently. In addition, this is a vanity metric because in software, 3 years of doing things the better way is worth far more than 20 years of doing things the inefficient way.

But sure, I'll bite. I'm in my mid-20s and make a 6-figure salary in software, which is exactly the point - this is a lucrative field that does not take much experience, just pure brainpower. I am not being outsourced because my job takes real technical/coding skills, and I'm efficient and use the latest tools (ie: Selenium) instead of clicking around manually.

Now tell me, what is your experience? What type of company? What type of testing do you do?

I bill $125 an hour on a 2000 hr scale, and yes I have more experience than you, 25+, and an IC. Guess what - ur making maybe early 6 figures, but that's it - u have reached your max thanks to all the outsourcing. I'm a developer, and my wife is a self taught Selenium tester..., and her rate has actually regressed from the late 90's when she did manual testing. What you're calling lucrative now was the norm mid 90's salary, with tons of US jobs.

Huh. I am the PP. When I do consulting I bill $120/hour. It's not that much in this industry. Sure, I am young, but why do you make the assumption that I don't know anyone older making more? I don't have to have experienced it myself to know what career progression looks like. Sure, as a developer you max out around $150-200K, but a) that is great money and b) developers are analysts and associates of the software world. To make more, you have to lead projects and manage teams, just like in any other industry.

Again, you haven't answered my most important question: what types of companies do you work for?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hacker school PP here.

You'll notice that some posters will refer to having degrees in "IT" or having the "IT" department outsourced. No respectable tech firm puts testing in the IT department - that's for buying monitors and replacing keyboards when they break.

You want a job in "computer science" or "software engineering," these are the jobs that are on the rise and will never be outsourced. Be careful of the advice you're getting and be wary of ops people bemoaning the end of software when in reality it's because they don't have the skills to compete.

Bullcrap! How many years of experience do you have?

Not sure why years of experience matter. You can have 20 years of experience in software, but really only the last 3-5 matter since frameworks and best practices change so frequently. In addition, this is a vanity metric because in software, 3 years of doing things the better way is worth far more than 20 years of doing things the inefficient way.

But sure, I'll bite. I'm in my mid-20s and make a 6-figure salary in software, which is exactly the point - this is a lucrative field that does not take much experience, just pure brainpower. I am not being outsourced because my job takes real technical/coding skills, and I'm efficient and use the latest tools (ie: Selenium) instead of clicking around manually.

Now tell me, what is your experience? What type of company? What type of testing do you do?

I bill $125 an hour on a 2000 hr scale, and yes I have more experience than you, 25+, and an IC. Guess what - ur making maybe early 6 figures, but that's it - u have reached your max thanks to all the outsourcing. I'm a developer, and my wife is a self taught Selenium tester..., and her rate has actually regressed from the late 90's when she did manual testing. What you're calling lucrative now was the norm mid 90's salary, with tons of US jobs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hacker school PP here.

You'll notice that some posters will refer to having degrees in "IT" or having the "IT" department outsourced. No respectable tech firm puts testing in the IT department - that's for buying monitors and replacing keyboards when they break.

You want a job in "computer science" or "software engineering," these are the jobs that are on the rise and will never be outsourced. Be careful of the advice you're getting and be wary of ops people bemoaning the end of software when in reality it's because they don't have the skills to compete.

Bullcrap! How many years of experience do you have?

Not sure why years of experience matter. You can have 20 years of experience in software, but really only the last 3-5 matter since frameworks and best practices change so frequently. In addition, this is a vanity metric because in software, 3 years of doing things the better way is worth far more than 20 years of doing things the inefficient way.

But sure, I'll bite. I'm in my mid-20s and make a 6-figure salary in software, which is exactly the point - this is a lucrative field that does not take much experience, just pure brainpower. I am not being outsourced because my job takes real technical/coding skills, and I'm efficient and use the latest tools (ie: Selenium) instead of clicking around manually.

Now tell me, what is your experience? What type of company? What type of testing do you do?

To get in the higher level jobs/leads, they do want 10 years experience. If you are in the cleared world, they are desperate for testers and most are not very good so there is very little competition.

I do agree that this is true. But this is mostly due to HR policies and culture in jobs that require a clearance (government tends to skew older in age), not because the jobs actually require that much experience to do well. And of course if you want to be non entry level, you will either need more experience or be great at networking or politics - isn't this true in every field?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hacker school PP here.

You'll notice that some posters will refer to having degrees in "IT" or having the "IT" department outsourced. No respectable tech firm puts testing in the IT department - that's for buying monitors and replacing keyboards when they break.

You want a job in "computer science" or "software engineering," these are the jobs that are on the rise and will never be outsourced. Be careful of the advice you're getting and be wary of ops people bemoaning the end of software when in reality it's because they don't have the skills to compete.

Bullcrap! How many years of experience do you have?

I'm not the PP but I own a software company and know many people in the business. That PP is correct -- the IT department isn't product development or testing. It would be a separate department IF you're at a software company. That's not Fortune 500 companies -- it's companies that produce software to sell it to others.. not those that produce software for internal use.

Yes - that was my point. If you work for a company that is at its core not a tech company - aka it is not developing new technology, then sure, you run the risk of being outsourced because you are a cost, not a profit center. But the tech industry is growing like crazy, and these companies consider testing a core part of their business. These jobs will never be outsourced to India, and in fact tech companies are hiring ridiculously inexperienced people at what IMHO are extremely high salaries.

If you're talented, you will easily find yourself a job at an actual tech company, not some place that thinks of programmers as monkeys that can be offshored to India. You will enjoy fantastic benefits as well because tech companies are dying to hire good talent. I get an absurd number of recruiting inbounds on LinkedIn even though I'm not looking - which is why I'm convinced that the posters who are moaning about their jobs being outsourced aren't actually engineers. They sound like ops or IT techs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hacker school PP here.

You'll notice that some posters will refer to having degrees in "IT" or having the "IT" department outsourced. No respectable tech firm puts testing in the IT department - that's for buying monitors and replacing keyboards when they break.

You want a job in "computer science" or "software engineering," these are the jobs that are on the rise and will never be outsourced. Be careful of the advice you're getting and be wary of ops people bemoaning the end of software when in reality it's because they don't have the skills to compete.

Bullcrap! How many years of experience do you have?

Not sure why years of experience matter. You can have 20 years of experience in software, but really only the last 3-5 matter since frameworks and best practices change so frequently. In addition, this is a vanity metric because in software, 3 years of doing things the better way is worth far more than 20 years of doing things the inefficient way.

But sure, I'll bite. I'm in my mid-20s and make a 6-figure salary in software, which is exactly the point - this is a lucrative field that does not take much experience, just pure brainpower. I am not being outsourced because my job takes real technical/coding skills, and I'm efficient and use the latest tools (ie: Selenium) instead of clicking around manually.

Now tell me, what is your experience? What type of company? What type of testing do you do?

To get in the higher level jobs/leads, they do want 10 years experience. If you are in the cleared world, they are desperate for testers and most are not very good so there is very little competition.