Anonymous wrote:I'm in my 40's, a single mom, and I really enjoy my life. While I think it's great that many kids have involved fathers, I knew a lot of fathers during my childhood who were completely crappy, and I find it hard to regard them as a necessity.

If women in DC want to marry, they are up against a lot of demographic challenges. The ratio of men to women is lower than it is on the West Coast. The men in this area are going to disproportionately live in the burbs, near the tech and biotech firms, while women are disproportionately working for nonprofits and law firms in the city. A lot of men out here had non-working mothers, so they think that women exist to clean up after them and tell them how smart they are.

One good way to spend one's time is to do volunteer work, especially in an activity like youth sports or doing hands on building projects, like Habitat for Humanity, so that the male female ratio is higher. Even if your friend doesn't meet anyone doing this, the sense of satisfaction form helping others and completing a project will be quite satisfying.

You are spot on about the demographics. My future husband lived in an exurb and was already a homeowner. He was a professional puruing a masters' degree. I was living and working in Arlington, like many of my female friends. I also noticed that the desireable single men usually left the area to pursue graduate degrees after getting a couple of years of work experience and then bam! They'd get married the minute they had that sheepskin in hand to whoever they happened to be dating at the time. I dated throughout my 20s and early 30s but the men were immature or weren't going to earn enough to support a family (working in non-profits like me). Also, the guys I met through clubs and gyms were incredibly boring and seemed to be obsessed with the sport more than anything (extreme sport).

I met my hubby in church through a singles ministry, btw, but you have to be willing to talk the talk and walk the walk.

I assume your friend no longer excludes people because they don't like the Exact Same Bands, is only 5'11", needs to make $200k, is three years older, etc.

No, women don't deserve some guy who asks for nudes in line 4 of a conversation or who cant stoo going on about their demon ex from six years ago. But after 30, if you are serious about marriage, a serious examination of priorities and the such is needed.

Offer to set your friend up with any available decent guy you know. Don't say they aren't each other's type. Introduce them and let them decide.

Tell her to settle. I don't mean for a deadbeat loser but to reevaluate her criteria and let some go. Things like he needs a certain degree, he needs a certain career path, family type, religion, etc.

- signed single woman in her 40s who would have wanted both of the above from friends.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a never-married (single mom) of 43, I think the best thing you can do is to (a) encourage her to explore on-line dating, and (b) encourage her to make new friends of both sexes who are not married. (a) because on-line dating removes the whole "right place/right time" luck aspect of meeting someone, and (b) because it's easier to forget you are single when you are out having fun and not sitting at home alone.

I don't think you should say "your time will come" because it might not. Definitely don't say "it happens when you least expect it" because I think that in many cases, that is BS. Many of my married friends are that way because they tried VERY HARD to find a guy and get married. So the "least expect it" thing can add pressure - "do I put on makeup to go to the grocery store?"

What has always helped me is knowing that "married" does not mean fairy tales and unicorns. I'm not saying you should b*tch about your husband constantly, but I do appreciate hearing that there are negotiations about stuff I would take for granted, or that sometimes being married means reloading the dishwasher EVERY SINGLE TIME. it can be easy to romanticize it when you haven't seen the other side.

Also, encourage her not to hold off on doing stuff because she's waiting to do it with a guy. I feel like some women put their lives on hold until "he" comes along, and it makes me sad for them. I bought a house solo. I have taken some really amazing trips, with friends and without. If I want to do something, I do it. Usually I can find someone else who wants to do it. I have a great circle of friends, so I'm almost never the only solo person at a wedding.

I was single in my early-mid 30s, too (now married in my 40s). I would say that this is the roughest time to be single - but she probably doesn't need you trying to fix things for her. She knows she needs to make friends and get out there; she doesn't need you telling her to do it. If you know any great potential partners, though, she'd probabl appreciate being fixed up. And I am almost certain she'd appreciate being invited over for things - dinner, movies, whatever, so she doesn't have to feel like not having a spouse means she's completely excluded.

I agree with all of this, and I am the single friend. I'm have a lot more in common with the quote poster than the teacher upthread, as I have seen WAY too many marriages blow up (most of my friends are on their second marriages, so the idea of 'wasting a decade' is foreign to me - it might be frustrating, but it's not 'wasted' if that's how long it took to find the right person. And I'm not wishing away by life in the meantime.

OP, I'd say you're more empathetic and a better friend than most just because you thought to post this thread. Obviously, you care about your friend, how she feels, and are willing to seek out other perspectives on how to be a good friend to her, and that's a lot more than most people would do.

Some things I'd add to those that have already been said:

Do remember what it was like to be single yourself. Sometimes it is amazing - the time to focus on your career, travel with friends, etc. Sometimes it sucks - strings of bad dates in a row, horrendous online dating adventures, etc. Well, from anything I've seen - sometimes marriage is amazing, and sometimes it also sucks. So don't tell her how her life is great all the time, and marriage is a boring grind, or, on the flip side, encourage her to 'just hang in there' through what you assume is a miserable time because one day she will meet someone and it will be amazing. Just know that she goes through high and low points like anyone else, be accepting of hers, and real about your own.

Do invite her to couples/family things, but don't ONLY do couples/family things because you have one - she doesn't. If you can, go out to a bar and be her wingwoman once a month or whatever you can manage. Go for pedicures.

At the same time - encourage her friendships with other singles. Don't get jealous/your feelings hurt if she wants to go out with the single gals from her office instead of to your dinner party on a Saturday night. Yes, you might see her less, but she probably sees you less than she did before you did PTA or whatever, and she's still your friend.

Be accepting/encouraging if/when she does bring a date around. Don't do the eyeroll and "what happened to Ben?" when she brings Josh around 3 months later. Of course, if she is bringing someone different around every few weeks, she needs to calm it down herself, and you can tell her that, too. Trying to force every guy you have 2 dates with into a insta-relationship is not healthy, and if you're a good friend, you shouldn't encourage her if she's doing that, either.

I'm in my 40's, a single mom, and I really enjoy my life. While I think it's great that many kids have involved fathers, I knew a lot of fathers during my childhood who were completely crappy, and I find it hard to regard them as a necessity.

If women in DC want to marry, they are up against a lot of demographic challenges. The ratio of men to women is lower than it is on the West Coast. The men in this area are going to disproportionately live in the burbs, near the tech and biotech firms, while women are disproportionately working for nonprofits and law firms in the city. A lot of men out here had non-working mothers, so they think that women exist to clean up after them and tell them how smart they are.

One good way to spend one's time is to do volunteer work, especially in an activity like youth sports or doing hands on building projects, like Habitat for Humanity, so that the male female ratio is higher. Even if your friend doesn't meet anyone doing this, the sense of satisfaction form helping others and completing a project will be quite satisfying.

Another thing to do is reflect back to your friend all the wonderful things you appreciate in her, and all the things that make her a great person and friend. Instead of focusing on her single status, just be her friend - laugh with her, have fun with her, vent to/with her, etc. It really helps to feel loved and appreciated, whether in a relationship or not, and the best friendships boost us up in that way, naturally.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don't condescend to her by saying she will meet someone soon. A woman doesn't need to be married with children to be happy, so don't encourage her to "hold on" until she can finally join the blissful ranks of married women. Study after study has shown that single women are the happiest group of all; married women are the LEAST happy. The problem is that our society tells women that they are unfulfilled and selfish if they haven't snagged a man and popped out any babies yet.

So please encourage her to expand her social circle to include more unmarried, child-free, happy people. Life is too short to be wishing it away waiting for a family.

- married mother of 2

Easy for you to say.

It is very lonely out there when all your friends are married and you are left in the dust. I'd rather see for myself if being married with beautiful children to love on and watch grow up is miserable. I'd like to take my chances, just like you.

Being married and miserable is 1,000 times worse than being single and miserable. And having kids and being in a miserable marriage is a special kind of hell. Yes, there are people who are married (with and without kids) who are happy. But being married (and having kids) didn't magically make them happy. You have to be the right person and find the right person and put effort into the relationship. Worse thing you can do is get married to the wrong person (or even the kinda right, but not quite right person) just because you want (need) to be married.

OP- I know it sucks for your friend. I didn't get married until I was 40. The only thing you can do is empathize with her feelings (I know it sucks to be single). If she is really wallowing, you can probe, "What are you doing to change you single status?" (Anyone who is single and not online dating needs to STFU) and help her create a great profile (do some research on how to make a great profile). Remind her that it's not a race and the goal isn't to be married, it's to be happily married to the right person. And for some people it takes time to become the right person (I needed years of therapy to learn how to attract and be attracted to the right guys) and find the right person.

As for me, I was 38 when we met and married at 40. Five years later we are still blissfully married. All my friends who married in their mid-30's are all now divorced or in miserable marriages. Yes we had Fertility issues because of our age. But it was all worth it to be married to the perfect guy for me.

I totally get what you are saying, but I would rather 1,000xs over be happily married at 33 with a baby on the way than happily single traveling the "world" as people like to say, or trying new "sports and classes" whatever that means.

I'm a 3rd grade teacher and I know FULL well how wonderful kids are. I know exactly what I'm missing out on. I don't want to be 40 and a first time mom. To me that is 10 years of wasted time. But of course it has to be the right person. I'm just sick of people trying to tell me how miserable marriage is and how great "traveling the world" is as a single person. It sucks. it really does. I'm sorry to say, but the selection of men out there is horrendous. Why do you think SO MANY women are opting to conceive with donor sperm and go at it on their own? Because the sloppy seconds that are out there are single still for a good reason.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they hesitate to go online bc it's genuinely unpleasant. Sure there are some nice guys out there but you have to sift through a lot of sleazebags.

This is how women end up single in their early 30s, because they're turning down perfectly good suitors while hoping Prince Charming will appear to whisk them away.

obviously you have never dated online. neither did i, but i followed closely my best friend's adventures.

online dating is a whole different level of hell. luckily i am married, but if i were single i would not do online dating. it's demeaning, and soul crushing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don't condescend to her by saying she will meet someone soon. A woman doesn't need to be married with children to be happy, so don't encourage her to "hold on" until she can finally join the blissful ranks of married women. Study after study has shown that single women are the happiest group of all; married women are the LEAST happy. The problem is that our society tells women that they are unfulfilled and selfish if they haven't snagged a man and popped out any babies yet.

So please encourage her to expand her social circle to include more unmarried, child-free, happy people. Life is too short to be wishing it away waiting for a family.

- married mother of 2

Easy for you to say.

It is very lonely out there when all your friends are married and you are left in the dust. I'd rather see for myself if being married with beautiful children to love on and watch grow up is miserable. I'd like to take my chances, just like you.

Being married and miserable is 1,000 times worse than being single and miserable. And having kids and being in a miserable marriage is a special kind of hell. Yes, there are people who are married (with and without kids) who are happy. But being married (and having kids) didn't magically make them happy. You have to be the right person and find the right person and put effort into the relationship. Worse thing you can do is get married to the wrong person (or even the kinda right, but not quite right person) just because you want (need) to be married.

OP- I know it sucks for your friend. I didn't get married until I was 40. The only thing you can do is empathize with her feelings (I know it sucks to be single). If she is really wallowing, you can probe, "What are you doing to change you single status?" (Anyone who is single and not online dating needs to STFU) and help her create a great profile (do some research on how to make a great profile). Remind her that it's not a race and the goal isn't to be married, it's to be happily married to the right person. And for some people it takes time to become the right person (I needed years of therapy to learn how to attract and be attracted to the right guys) and find the right person.

As for me, I was 38 when we met and married at 40. Five years later we are still blissfully married. All my friends who married in their mid-30's are all now divorced or in miserable marriages. Yes we had Fertility issues because of our age. But it was all worth it to be married to the perfect guy for me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they hesitate to go online bc it's genuinely unpleasant. Sure there are some nice guys out there but you have to sift through a lot of sleazebags.

This is how women end up single in their early 30s, because they're turning down perfectly good suitors while hoping Prince Charming will appear to whisk them away.

+1 Or if they're not still doing it, they were doing it for too many years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don't condescend to her by saying she will meet someone soon. A woman doesn't need to be married with children to be happy, so don't encourage her to "hold on" until she can finally join the blissful ranks of married women. Study after study has shown that single women are the happiest group of all; married women are the LEAST happy. The problem is that our society tells women that they are unfulfilled and selfish if they haven't snagged a man and popped out any babies yet.

So please encourage her to expand her social circle to include more unmarried, child-free, happy people. Life is too short to be wishing it away waiting for a family.

- married mother of 2

I think this message is too basic. I am pushing 30, have lived half way around the world by myself, dated a lot, have a great career and apartment, have no problems going to the movies or dinner, etc by myself, but for the love of God, if this is the rest of my life, I am going to be disappointed.

I am constantly being told this or hear this (not that I complain about being single often because I don't want the pity)...but this is a huge part of life that I won't get to experience if I don't find someone.

Lighten up, Frances. You're only 29 years old.

It really isn't that young if you want to have kids by 34/35. Ideally, I would meet someone date for a year or two and then be married two to three years prior to having kids. Put all that together and I am up against the clock. Do I need to have kids at 34/35, no, but I want to have more than one and I don't want to be 40 doing it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don't condescend to her by saying she will meet someone soon. A woman doesn't need to be married with children to be happy, so don't encourage her to "hold on" until she can finally join the blissful ranks of married women. Study after study has shown that single women are the happiest group of all; married women are the LEAST happy. The problem is that our society tells women that they are unfulfilled and selfish if they haven't snagged a man and popped out any babies yet.

So please encourage her to expand her social circle to include more unmarried, child-free, happy people. Life is too short to be wishing it away waiting for a family.

- married mother of 2

I think this message is too basic. I am pushing 30, have lived half way around the world by myself, dated a lot, have a great career and apartment, have no problems going to the movies or dinner, etc by myself, but for the love of God, if this is the rest of my life, I am going to be disappointed.

I am constantly being told this or hear this (not that I complain about being single often because I don't want the pity)...but this is a huge part of life that I won't get to experience if I don't find someone.

Lighten up, Frances. You're only 29 years old.

Anonymous wrote:

It's not my ideal to have my children conceived in a petri dish with a dude that was lrftover.

???? Being single is no excuse to be a bitch to others who are trying to offer helpful advice. Let me give you another tip that might help you be a little more successful in the dating world: People are attracted to happy, positive people. Sounds like you might have some work to do before you're staring down the petri dish yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don't condescend to her by saying she will meet someone soon. A woman doesn't need to be married with children to be happy, so don't encourage her to "hold on" until she can finally join the blissful ranks of married women. Study after study has shown that single women are the happiest group of all; married women are the LEAST happy. The problem is that our society tells women that they are unfulfilled and selfish if they haven't snagged a man and popped out any babies yet.

So please encourage her to expand her social circle to include more unmarried, child-free, happy people. Life is too short to be wishing it away waiting for a family.

- married mother of 2

I think this message is too basic. I am pushing 30, have lived half way around the world by myself, dated a lot, have a great career and apartment, have no problems going to the movies or dinner, etc by myself, but for the love of God, if this is the rest of my life, I am going to be disappointed.

I am constantly being told this or hear this (not that I complain about being single often because I don't want the pity)...but this is a huge part of life that I won't get to experience if I don't find someone.

I'm 39 and still single. 30, 31, and 32 are still great dating ages. Get yourself out there now as much as possible if you want to be married. Ask all your friends to fix you up, go online, join sports teams or whatever. These are prime dating years - take advantage of it. And dump guys you aren't that into. Don't stay in relationships that aren't going anywhere.

This is what I wish I'd done at your age.

Doing all this. It just gets so exhausting!!

I am the PP that is pushing 30 (and all of my friends have LT partners).

A few pieces of advice:

1.) invite me - one of the worst days last year was in all of my friends made July 4th plans and no one thought to ask what I was doing. It was a really rough day because you are suppose to be at parties etc...
2.) the times when I do complain about being single - don't tell me to embrace my independence, especially when you aren't (and never have been) as independent as me.
3.) don't be condescending - my one good friend keeps telling me I should try meeting someone at church (yeah, I would if they weren't all married with kids or gay...). Seriously, I have thought of this and have even tried changing churches.

Unless she is complaining all the time, just listen to her when she does and try empathsize.