This may offend some folks, but I feel like what is missing from this discussion, and from many discussions on debt, especially that accrued in college, is effort to pay it back. I have plenty of friends who either aren't getting ahead financially due to low paying jobs or debt, who are extremely liberal with their spending...manicures, highlights, massages, clothing from Anthropologie, designer handbags, beautiful apartments, nice cars, frequent dinners out and happy hours, etc. I'm not saying folks aren't entitled to nice things while they work their way out of debt, but I find a lot of dialogue on how hard it is to get out of debt, or to get ahead, from people who are not responsible with their money. Of course this is not the case for everyone, but I'm sure its fairly common.

I left a low paying job in DC ($42k) at age 29 with a Master's degree to work overseas for a job that paid even less (to gain work experience in my field). Bad choice. But I knew the value of money and I saved while I was there. I got back in mid-2009 and couldn't find permanent work in my field for 3 full years. I wasn't able to collect unemployment because of having voluntarily left my permanent job for contract work (and because I hadn't become a DC resident before I left). But I worked like mad piecing together what work I could find. I worked nights and weekends in retail. I woke up at 4am to tutor adults in Asia over the internet in English speaking skills. I took part time contract work. I had (still have) a 17 year old paid off car with broken a/c. I commuted by bike when it was close enough. I lived in a rinky-dink walk-up studio apartment without central air or laundry. My parents never contributed to my undergrad (which I had paid off prior) or my grad school (which I'm actively paying off now). It was a tough 3 years, but now I am financially better off than many of my friends who had full time work with benefits that entire time.

I think many of the tradeoffs I made are not possible for some people, say for parents who are limited by having to be home with children at night or on weekends, etc. But for young people who otherwise don't have such commitments, there is all the time in the world to get ahead.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, by all means let's all get degrees that yield the highest salary possible without any culture or education. No wonder we are all so miserable. Who do you think is going to teach your kids in high school? Who will run the museums? Who will you buy a car from? Get off your high horse and figure out now to make education (in any field) morse affordable instead of bashing the thinkers of the society.

I agree in an idealistic sort of way that it ought to be different. Show me a petition that says teachers should be paid more and I'll sign it, but we both know that's not going to help anything. I think the key is being smart about choices. For example, teachers don't need to go to GW to be teachers. Same with nursing. If DC wanted to do either of those things then DC would be doing 2 years at junior college and then transferring into Mason on in-state tuition and finishing out with no debt. If DC #2 is a mediocre student, but seems to have his father's knack for fixing things then DC is going to look hard at becoming a master electrician instead of "giving college a try" and coming out with no degree and saddled with debt. He may also look at the military since that may be the best of both worlds as far as cultivating skill in a trade and also giving him the option for a debt free education should he decide later that working on submarines isn't his thing.

I am the one you are responding to. We don't disagree on much. I completely agree that college is not for everyone. It can actually make talented people feel lesser than (meaning they could be a lot happier in a field that doesn't require all that work to get a degree). I am just not in favor for mocking people who choose to get a LA degree even if their earning potential is not great. We should embrace the thinkers, the artists, the historians just as much as we embrace the money makers. I'm just seeing a cultural shift towards money making that is not healthy.

"We should embrace the thinkers, the artists, the historians just as much as we embrace the money makers. I'm just seeing a cultural shift towards money making that is not healthy. "

Sorry but if they were valued they would be paid more.

Who do you think created the society that you live in?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, by all means let's all get degrees that yield the highest salary possible without any culture or education. No wonder we are all so miserable. Who do you think is going to teach your kids in high school? Who will run the museums? Who will you buy a car from? Get off your high horse and figure out now to make education (in any field) morse affordable instead of bashing the thinkers of the society.

I agree in an idealistic sort of way that it ought to be different. Show me a petition that says teachers should be paid more and I'll sign it, but we both know that's not going to help anything. I think the key is being smart about choices. For example, teachers don't need to go to GW to be teachers. Same with nursing. If DC wanted to do either of those things then DC would be doing 2 years at junior college and then transferring into Mason on in-state tuition and finishing out with no debt. If DC #2 is a mediocre student, but seems to have his father's knack for fixing things then DC is going to look hard at becoming a master electrician instead of "giving college a try" and coming out with no degree and saddled with debt. He may also look at the military since that may be the best of both worlds as far as cultivating skill in a trade and also giving him the option for a debt free education should he decide later that working on submarines isn't his thing.

I am the one you are responding to. We don't disagree on much. I completely agree that college is not for everyone. It can actually make talented people feel lesser than (meaning they could be a lot happier in a field that doesn't require all that work to get a degree). I am just not in favor for mocking people who choose to get a LA degree even if their earning potential is not great. We should embrace the thinkers, the artists, the historians just as much as we embrace the money makers. I'm just seeing a cultural shift towards money making that is not healthy.

"We should embrace the thinkers, the artists, the historians just as much as we embrace the money makers. I'm just seeing a cultural shift towards money making that is not healthy. "

Sorry but if they were valued they would be paid more.

This is true. Why else have some of the greatest artists, philosophers, writers, etc... come from wealthy families? Because they didn't need to worry about the necessities of life.

College can be expensive, but it doesn't have to be. Community colleges are still very cheap and their credits transfer to 4-year universities. While a 4-year degree from a prestigious university is impressive - it's only useful for companies that care about prestige. Most companies care about whether you can do the job. This means you need to get experience, particularly while you're in school. If you come out of community college with solid Excel, PowerPoint and similar skills, you shouldn't have a problem landing a job that you can use to bootstrap into better positions.

Another problem that recent graduates face is that they refuse to move away from family/friends, their favorite city (e.g., San Francisco, NYC, etc... where it may be very expensive to live), or other decision that is solely in their control. If you want a job, you need to go where the jobs are. I wouldn't want to put down roots in a less-desirable city either, but no one is saying that you need to do so. Your goal is to get experience that you can leverage in order to get a job in the city where you want to put down roots.

Finally, and this may not be a popular thought (and may have been suggested already), but the military is always an option for young people in debt. The military does offer educational loan repayment programs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, by all means let's all get degrees that yield the highest salary possible without any culture or education. No wonder we are all so miserable. Who do you think is going to teach your kids in high school? Who will run the museums? Who will you buy a car from? Get off your high horse and figure out now to make education (in any field) morse affordable instead of bashing the thinkers of the society.

I agree in an idealistic sort of way that it ought to be different. Show me a petition that says teachers should be paid more and I'll sign it, but we both know that's not going to help anything. I think the key is being smart about choices. For example, teachers don't need to go to GW to be teachers. Same with nursing. If DC wanted to do either of those things then DC would be doing 2 years at junior college and then transferring into Mason on in-state tuition and finishing out with no debt. If DC #2 is a mediocre student, but seems to have his father's knack for fixing things then DC is going to look hard at becoming a master electrician instead of "giving college a try" and coming out with no degree and saddled with debt. He may also look at the military since that may be the best of both worlds as far as cultivating skill in a trade and also giving him the option for a debt free education should he decide later that working on submarines isn't his thing.

I am the one you are responding to. We don't disagree on much. I completely agree that college is not for everyone. It can actually make talented people feel lesser than (meaning they could be a lot happier in a field that doesn't require all that work to get a degree). I am just not in favor for mocking people who choose to get a LA degree even if their earning potential is not great. We should embrace the thinkers, the artists, the historians just as much as we embrace the money makers. I'm just seeing a cultural shift towards money making that is not healthy.

"We should embrace the thinkers, the artists, the historians just as much as we embrace the money makers. I'm just seeing a cultural shift towards money making that is not healthy. "

Sorry but if they were valued they would be paid more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, by all means let's all get degrees that yield the highest salary possible without any culture or education. No wonder we are all so miserable. Who do you think is going to teach your kids in high school? Who will run the museums? Who will you buy a car from? Get off your high horse and figure out now to make education (in any field) morse affordable instead of bashing the thinkers of the society.

I agree in an idealistic sort of way that it ought to be different. Show me a petition that says teachers should be paid more and I'll sign it, but we both know that's not going to help anything. I think the key is being smart about choices. For example, teachers don't need to go to GW to be teachers. Same with nursing. If DC wanted to do either of those things then DC would be doing 2 years at junior college and then transferring into Mason on in-state tuition and finishing out with no debt. If DC #2 is a mediocre student, but seems to have his father's knack for fixing things then DC is going to look hard at becoming a master electrician instead of "giving college a try" and coming out with no degree and saddled with debt. He may also look at the military since that may be the best of both worlds as far as cultivating skill in a trade and also giving him the option for a debt free education should he decide later that working on submarines isn't his thing.

I am the one you are responding to. We don't disagree on much. I completely agree that college is not for everyone. It can actually make talented people feel lesser than (meaning they could be a lot happier in a field that doesn't require all that work to get a degree). I am just not in favor for mocking people who choose to get a LA degree even if their earning potential is not great. We should embrace the thinkers, the artists, the historians just as much as we embrace the money makers. I'm just seeing a cultural shift towards money making that is not healthy.

PP here. I agree that we seem to be on generally the same page and I also agree that we need thinkers, social scientists, artists, etc. I think part of the problem is that everything has gotten so ridiculously expensive that people choosing those degrees and occupations really need to go into it with their eyes open to the reality of the post-graduation landscape. You simply can't go to GW and then become a junior high art teacher. You will end up paying on student loans until you retire and will never be able to actually "retire" or own a home in this area. It's a sad, sad state of affairs, but I'm not sure that anybody has the answers on what we ought to be doing about it.

I agree that people should be smart about where they go. I went to a small, relatively unknown school because they gave me a full ride instead of Georgetown where I would have been in huge debt. I did however graduate with a BA in liberal arts and will never regret it. The answer is more affordable education. It simply doesn't cost $55,000/year to educate a freshman at GW. It's inflated and ridiculous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, by all means let's all get degrees that yield the highest salary possible without any culture or education. No wonder we are all so miserable. Who do you think is going to teach your kids in high school? Who will run the museums? Who will you buy a car from? Get off your high horse and figure out now to make education (in any field) morse affordable instead of bashing the thinkers of the society.

I agree in an idealistic sort of way that it ought to be different. Show me a petition that says teachers should be paid more and I'll sign it, but we both know that's not going to help anything. I think the key is being smart about choices. For example, teachers don't need to go to GW to be teachers. Same with nursing. If DC wanted to do either of those things then DC would be doing 2 years at junior college and then transferring into Mason on in-state tuition and finishing out with no debt. If DC #2 is a mediocre student, but seems to have his father's knack for fixing things then DC is going to look hard at becoming a master electrician instead of "giving college a try" and coming out with no degree and saddled with debt. He may also look at the military since that may be the best of both worlds as far as cultivating skill in a trade and also giving him the option for a debt free education should he decide later that working on submarines isn't his thing.

I am the one you are responding to. We don't disagree on much. I completely agree that college is not for everyone. It can actually make talented people feel lesser than (meaning they could be a lot happier in a field that doesn't require all that work to get a degree). I am just not in favor for mocking people who choose to get a LA degree even if their earning potential is not great. We should embrace the thinkers, the artists, the historians just as much as we embrace the money makers. I'm just seeing a cultural shift towards money making that is not healthy.

PP here. I agree that we seem to be on generally the same page and I also agree that we need thinkers, social scientists, artists, etc. I think part of the problem is that everything has gotten so ridiculously expensive that people choosing those degrees and occupations really need to go into it with their eyes open to the reality of the post-graduation landscape. You simply can't go to GW and then become a junior high art teacher. You will end up paying on student loans until you retire and will never be able to actually "retire" or own a home in this area. It's a sad, sad state of affairs, but I'm not sure that anybody has the answers on what we ought to be doing about it.

It is just irresponsible to go far into debt for school in a major that does not pay . Or even one that does you may hate that job but the debt is not going away

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, by all means let's all get degrees that yield the highest salary possible without any culture or education. No wonder we are all so miserable. Who do you think is going to teach your kids in high school? Who will run the museums? Who will you buy a car from? Get off your high horse and figure out now to make education (in any field) morse affordable instead of bashing the thinkers of the society.

I agree in an idealistic sort of way that it ought to be different. Show me a petition that says teachers should be paid more and I'll sign it, but we both know that's not going to help anything. I think the key is being smart about choices. For example, teachers don't need to go to GW to be teachers. Same with nursing. If DC wanted to do either of those things then DC would be doing 2 years at junior college and then transferring into Mason on in-state tuition and finishing out with no debt. If DC #2 is a mediocre student, but seems to have his father's knack for fixing things then DC is going to look hard at becoming a master electrician instead of "giving college a try" and coming out with no degree and saddled with debt. He may also look at the military since that may be the best of both worlds as far as cultivating skill in a trade and also giving him the option for a debt free education should he decide later that working on submarines isn't his thing.

I am the one you are responding to. We don't disagree on much. I completely agree that college is not for everyone. It can actually make talented people feel lesser than (meaning they could be a lot happier in a field that doesn't require all that work to get a degree). I am just not in favor for mocking people who choose to get a LA degree even if their earning potential is not great. We should embrace the thinkers, the artists, the historians just as much as we embrace the money makers. I'm just seeing a cultural shift towards money making that is not healthy.

Pp again, I just want to add that Germany pays for their kids to go to school. They just have to show the ability. Even Americans can go for free if they pass the entrance exam and the whole degree is in English. That's the kind of culture I want to embrace. Not "you studied history. You are dumb because you can't make 500 grand/year like I do."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, by all means let's all get degrees that yield the highest salary possible without any culture or education. No wonder we are all so miserable. Who do you think is going to teach your kids in high school? Who will run the museums? Who will you buy a car from? Get off your high horse and figure out now to make education (in any field) morse affordable instead of bashing the thinkers of the society.

I agree in an idealistic sort of way that it ought to be different. Show me a petition that says teachers should be paid more and I'll sign it, but we both know that's not going to help anything. I think the key is being smart about choices. For example, teachers don't need to go to GW to be teachers. Same with nursing. If DC wanted to do either of those things then DC would be doing 2 years at junior college and then transferring into Mason on in-state tuition and finishing out with no debt. If DC #2 is a mediocre student, but seems to have his father's knack for fixing things then DC is going to look hard at becoming a master electrician instead of "giving college a try" and coming out with no degree and saddled with debt. He may also look at the military since that may be the best of both worlds as far as cultivating skill in a trade and also giving him the option for a debt free education should he decide later that working on submarines isn't his thing.

I am the one you are responding to. We don't disagree on much. I completely agree that college is not for everyone. It can actually make talented people feel lesser than (meaning they could be a lot happier in a field that doesn't require all that work to get a degree). I am just not in favor for mocking people who choose to get a LA degree even if their earning potential is not great. We should embrace the thinkers, the artists, the historians just as much as we embrace the money makers. I'm just seeing a cultural shift towards money making that is not healthy.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, by all means let's all get degrees that yield the highest salary possible without any culture or education. No wonder we are all so miserable. Who do you think is going to teach your kids in high school? Who will run the museums? Who will you buy a car from? Get off your high horse and figure out now to make education (in any field) morse affordable instead of bashing the thinkers of the society.

I agree in an idealistic sort of way that it ought to be different. Show me a petition that says teachers should be paid more and I'll sign it, but we both know that's not going to help anything. I think the key is being smart about choices. For example, teachers don't need to go to GW to be teachers. Same with nursing. If DC wanted to do either of those things then DC would be doing 2 years at junior college and then transferring into Mason on in-state tuition and finishing out with no debt. If DC #2 is a mediocre student, but seems to have his father's knack for fixing things then DC is going to look hard at becoming a master electrician instead of "giving college a try" and coming out with no degree and saddled with debt. He may also look at the military since that may be the best of both worlds as far as cultivating skill in a trade and also giving him the option for a debt free education should he decide later that working on submarines isn't his thing.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, by all means let's all get degrees that yield the highest salary possible without any culture or education. No wonder we are all so miserable. Who do you think is going to teach your kids in high school? Who will run the museums? Who will you buy a car from? Get off your high horse and figure out now to make education (in any field) morse affordable instead of bashing the thinkers of the society.

huh? Hopefully car buying will be done online, museums? WTF are you talking about. You don't need a degree for a lot of jobs.

Yes, by all means let's all get degrees that yield the highest salary possible without any culture or education. No wonder we are all so miserable. Who do you think is going to teach your kids in high school? Who will run the museums? Who will you buy a car from? Get off your high horse and figure out now to make education (in any field) morse affordable instead of bashing the thinkers of the society.

Anonymous wrote:I think the other problem is that college got oversold. I'm not sure where we got this idea that everybody should go to college, but it's a really, really bad idea and isn't working. What we are ending up with are a ton of people with either partial degrees or useless degrees that come out owing thousands (usually to the "University" of Phoenix) and they are no more marketable than when they went in. At the same time the ridiculously inflated demand for college educations has driven the price up to astronomical levels. Not everybody is college material and there is nothing wrong with that. The trades can be very lucrative and rewarding for both tradesman and entrepreneurs alike with the added benefit that they can't be offshored. I agree with a lot of the PP's in that the days of going to college to "take a few electives and find myself and decide what I want to major in" are long gone. The PP with the successful mom drives home the point. Back then a bachelor's degree was a ticket "in". Now they are a dime a dozen and a lot of advanced degrees are becoming that way too. I can't count on one hand the number of people I know who went to law school because they came out of undergrad with a useless degree in poly sci, international studies, etc., worked for a year or two making mid 30s and decided law school was the ticket. Then they borrowed a bunch of money to go to a good law school (GW, Georgetown, American, etc.) and lo and behold never got picked up for a Biglaw job so now they are making barely more than they were before law school in a job that doesn't require a JD. This whole ready, shoot, aim thing has got to stop somewhere.

I know someone about to head down that same path. Graduated with a low earning degree and now sees law school as the ticket to higher earnings. You nailed it, right down to the school you listed!

Anonymous wrote:I know a person with a CS degree (oh yea, unless you are really good, most CS tasks can be outsourced to India) that drove a food truck, then now settled for a cashier job at auto parts store.

OP - Thank you for posting the article. I'll make sure that my college-bound kid read it and think about it.

That person must be very, very bad at their job.