Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am shocked by this thread. How are you people going to teach your children to navigate the world? Kids need to learn that it's important to work hard, that the kids who win awards are not necessarily smarter than them, but may be working harder, and that even if they try their best, they may still not win. This is LIFE, and elementary age children are more than capable of handling it.

so kids need to learn to try harder and they need to learn that no matter how hard they try they just aren't good enough? Fine if that is in one thing that is about on thing in their lives, but school is their whole life right now. So lets' say you have a job and aren't winning the awards there - promotions career advancement. The lesson is to try harder right? Ok. so you try your hardest and you still aren't able to advance (can't make partner or get tenure). Well, you find a new job that better fits your talents and proclivities and you advance at that one. Life lesson here is to move on. But kids can't move on (till maybe they can choose the votech path in high school) and we don't want them to move on. Wewant them, to learn. So do these awards help students learn? no.

School is not sports. It is about learning.

Wow. Kids who don't get awards aren't "not good enough" they just aren't the best at one particular thing. It is not a big deal, and not analogous to promotion at work. Moving on to the next grade is the promotion, and almost all of the kids get to do that. People who are the best at their jobs will advance and get special awards, and sometimes it will not be directly correlated to their effort. This is just life. You cannot be the best at everything. We should be a culture that celebrates achievement in school.

But school isn't about achievement and when you make it about achievement you inhibit the learning of award winners and looser alike. The thread was started by a mom whose son asked her if he just wasn't smart. He is coming to think of himself in a certain way. School isn't "one particular thing" you can't be best at, it is an endeavor you are engaged in for 6 hours of your day! If you are not very good at your job, you will not keep it, which is fine, because you can find a job you are good at. Kids cannot find a better job and there is no reason to rank who is very good and who is not - in fact there is every reason not to rank since ranking in elementary school is harmful to all. We are a culture OBSESSED with academic achievement, unfortunately, for kids who could learn more but don't because they've labeled themselves a certain way (perhaps because they aren't good at school, perhaps because they aren't precocious and by the time their cognitive abilities caught up, they already labeled themselves) or don't because they won awards and have come to care more about the awards than learning (which often involves messy failures that won't win any awards)

Here's my take:

When the MS auditorium is overflowing with only parents of the award winners and the award winners, there are too many awards being given. That simple.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am shocked by this thread. How are you people going to teach your children to navigate the world? Kids need to learn that it's important to work hard, that the kids who win awards are not necessarily smarter than them, but may be working harder, and that even if they try their best, they may still not win. This is LIFE, and elementary age children are more than capable of handling it.

so kids need to learn to try harder and they need to learn that no matter how hard they try they just aren't good enough? Fine if that is in one thing that is about on thing in their lives, but school is their whole life right now. So lets' say you have a job and aren't winning the awards there - promotions career advancement. The lesson is to try harder right? Ok. so you try your hardest and you still aren't able to advance (can't make partner or get tenure). Well, you find a new job that better fits your talents and proclivities and you advance at that one. Life lesson here is to move on. But kids can't move on (till maybe they can choose the votech path in high school) and we don't want them to move on. Wewant them, to learn. So do these awards help students learn? no.

School is not sports. It is about learning.

Wow. Kids who don't get awards aren't "not good enough" they just aren't the best at one particular thing. It is not a big deal, and not analogous to promotion at work. Moving on to the next grade is the promotion, and almost all of the kids get to do that. People who are the best at their jobs will advance and get special awards, and sometimes it will not be directly correlated to their effort. This is just life. You cannot be the best at everything. We should be a culture that celebrates achievement in school.

Anonymous wrote:I am shocked by this thread. How are you people going to teach your children to navigate the world? Kids need to learn that it's important to work hard, that the kids who win awards are not necessarily smarter than them, but may be working harder, and that even if they try their best, they may still not win. This is LIFE, and elementary age children are more than capable of handling it.

so kids need to learn to try harder and they need to learn that no matter how hard they try they just aren't good enough? Fine if that is in one thing that is about on thing in their lives, but school is their whole life right now. So lets' say you have a job and aren't winning the awards there - promotions career advancement. The lesson is to try harder right? Ok. so you try your hardest and you still aren't able to advance (can't make partner or get tenure). Well, you find a new job that better fits your talents and proclivities and you advance at that one. Life lesson here is to move on. But kids can't move on (till maybe they can choose the votech path in high school) and we don't want them to move on. Wewant them, to learn. So do these awards help students learn? no.

School is not sports. It is about learning.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree. The answer to that child should be. " you are plenty smart. But are you working your hardest and doing your best? No? Well next year you have another chance"

And what about those of us who have kids who could work their hardest, and do their best, and still never be in the running for such an award? What platitudes do you suggest we offer?

There are no platitudes. Sometimes life is not perfect, or fair. Not everybody can be the best, and there will always be someone better than you at something, but that's ok. You will be ok at most things, good at some things, and great at a few things. If your kids don't learn that now, they will eventually, and not from you.

Anonymous wrote:Disagree. The answer to that child should be. " you are plenty smart. But are you working your hardest and doing your best? No? Well next year you have another chance"

And what about those of us who have kids who could work their hardest, and do their best, and still never be in the running for such an award? What platitudes do you suggest we offer?

Anonymous wrote:DD got a "B" in reading in sixth grade. I asked her teacher what she was doing wrong--she scored 99% on Stanford reading and she read ALL her free time. (Really too much!) I wasn't attacking or questioning the teacher's ability--I just assumed that my DD was not doing her work or something. Next report card, she got "A"s from then on. Ended up getting the "Reading award" that year.
Not sure what happened. I suspect that, because my child was not a hand raiser or a teachers' pet type, that she just kind of went unnoticed and got a B. The teacher also loved good artwork and DD was not anything close to an artist--or a perfectionist. I assume that after I pointed out her scores that the teacher woke up a little. As I said earlier, I did not attack the teacher at all. It was in the first report card conference and I just asked where the problem was in her reading grade. It just did not make sense.

The teacher was actually a terrific teacher. One of the best. Even terrific teachers can overlook kids.

this is true. awards go to one kind of student. my son is not a quick study, but if he was more academic, he would get the award - super enthusiastic and loud in a good way. I never received any academic awards despite being very smart and going to get a PhD. But I was quiet and socially awkward and just NOT a teacher's pet type. I was completely overlooked all through school. Till college really - when my smart but socially awkward professors saw themselves in me.

These awards are 1/2 popularity with the teacher. So yay Larla, you can make a 34 year old education major like you.

I am shocked by this thread. How are you people going to teach your children to navigate the world? Kids need to learn that it's important to work hard, that the kids who win awards are not necessarily smarter than them, but may be working harder, and that even if they try their best, they may still not win. This is LIFE, and elementary age children are more than capable of handling it.

Anonymous wrote:
Isn't the knowledge gained and skills mastered its own reward? Why do we require that others who sit around us in school see us getting a pat on the back for something that is already a reward?

Yes!!! and now that the reward is the reward, I will strive for that. And doing so often means not asking the ahrd questions I won't be able to answer and not pursuing the challenging projects that could end in a mess and not an award winning success. My college honor students are the recipients of years of academic awards and it has ruined them for actual learning

it's bad for kids who win awards too. See research on external motivation. Learning is its own reward - learning and mastery itself rewards the hard work required

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you can't reward genuine hard work because the ones who aren't academic stars will get their feelings hurt? Millennials in a nutshell.

Jeezus, can you read or put three thoughts together to form a coherent argument? Stop watching so much Fox Snooze, it rots your brains.

Pp here and I loathe Fox News and would never lower myself to watch it. My point stands. It is ridiculous to deride awards because they point out some people are NOT achievers and that is a very recent attitude.

That is not the reason offered for "deriding awards." It is the measured, documented (as well as anecdotally observed) impact of these awards that are the reasons for deriding them. You see? There is a logical, empirical argument for it.

Just like there is (hopefully) a logical, empirical argument for any number of policy and practice decisions. Not just that someone somewhere likes it and thinks it's fine.

I'm sorry. I still don't get it exactly. I-9 for instance is a sports group that each week gives an award for the kid who exhibits good sportsmanship characteristics and for following the directions of the day. They say this is an important part of their philosophy to reward children who listen well, try hard, and are helpful to their teammates. They aren't really innate abilities and they say the kids love them and are encouraged to follow suit so that they get a reward another time. Is it rewarding for innate abilities that you don't like or are you against rewards in general? Intrinsic motivation is great and more important, but I'm not sure the research says life should be devoid of external motivation.

Isn't the knowledge gained and skills mastered its own reward? Why do we require that others who sit around us in school see us getting a pat on the back for something that is already a reward?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you can't reward genuine hard work because the ones who aren't academic stars will get their feelings hurt? Millennials in a nutshell.

Jeezus, can you read or put three thoughts together to form a coherent argument? Stop watching so much Fox Snooze, it rots your brains.

Pp here and I loathe Fox News and would never lower myself to watch it. My point stands. It is ridiculous to deride awards because they point out some people are NOT achievers and that is a very recent attitude.

That is not the reason offered for "deriding awards." It is the measured, documented (as well as anecdotally observed) impact of these awards that are the reasons for deriding them. You see? There is a logical, empirical argument for it.

Just like there is (hopefully) a logical, empirical argument for any number of policy and practice decisions. Not just that someone somewhere likes it and thinks it's fine.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you can't reward genuine hard work because the ones who aren't academic stars will get their feelings hurt? Millennials in a nutshell.

Jeezus, can you read or put three thoughts together to form a coherent argument? Stop watching so much Fox Snooze, it rots your brains.

Pp here and I loathe Fox News and would never lower myself to watch it. My point stands. It is ridiculous to deride awards because they point out some people are NOT achievers and that is a very recent attitude.

I'm for it. Achievement in academics should be at least on par with sports.

Not every kid gets a trophy and it's a life lesson. These days they don't even give out grades in FCPS elementary so anything to reward hard work in academics is progress.