Anonymous
03/03/2018 23:34
Subject: Using Validation therapy techique: need advice
I am posting to this old thread because it was linked in a current thread. The information and advice here is the best ever seen on DCUM.
Anonymous
06/26/2016 19:12
Subject: Re:Using Validation therapy techique: need advice
^^I am guessing you don't have a difficult child for whom you've gone through all the usual things like tough love, rewards, therapy etc. etc. Validation can work when all these other things don't particularly if you have a child prone to anxiety.
One reason it does is because it requires you to change your behavior and not flail around trying to change your child's behavior.
By the way, validation can also be very useful at work as well.
One reason it does is because it requires you to change your behavior and not flail around trying to change your child's behavior.
By the way, validation can also be very useful at work as well.
Anonymous
06/26/2016 18:11
Subject: Re:Using Validation therapy techique: need advice
Are you fucking kidding me?
Your "new me" is an enabling buffoon! Instead of focusing on the root of the problem - the kid isn't responsible - the emphasis is on her feelings!
This is beyond ridiculous and only supports my observations that we've destroyed an entire generation of kids.
Your "new me" is an enabling buffoon! Instead of focusing on the root of the problem - the kid isn't responsible - the emphasis is on her feelings!
This is beyond ridiculous and only supports my observations that we've destroyed an entire generation of kids.
Anonymous wrote:Okay, I'll give it a shot. I am sure you know the basics--never validate that which should not be validated (you were right to lie, for example), do not judge but empathize, universalize.
Example 1:
Old me: Why are you in such a bad mood? New me: You seem upset.
DD: I am upset! My teacher called me out in front of the whole class today!
Old me: Why? (Implicit: What did you do wrong?) New me: No wonder you are upset! That sounds so embarrassing!
DD: It wasn't my fault I forgot my homework!
Old me: Again? How many times have I told you to put your homework in the folder in your back pack as soon as you have finished it? New me: Oh! You must have been so frustrated you forgot it.
DD: I was. I keep trying so hard to remember and it is so unfair that the teacher said something in front of everyone.
Old me: Trying to isn't enough--what do you expect when you don't follow the rules? New me: I can't imagine how embarrassing it must have been to have that said in front of everyone, especially when you are trying so hard. Anyone would be upset at that.
DD: I guess I have to try harder.
Old me: Indeed you do or it is just going to get worse. New me: Maybe we need to come up with a better way for you to remember. (Brainstorming follows.)
Example 2 (more or less true as I remember it). This was early on in my foray into validation and made me aware of just how hard validating can be.
DD wakes me up at three in the morning to tell me her pet rat, which she knows I loathe, has died.
DD: Mommy, Larlat died!
Inward me: Thank God! Outward me, struggling to be validating in half awake stage: Are you sure? Larlat is too young to die.
DD: I'm sure, she's not moving and feels stiff.
Inward me: We better get rid of her immediately. Outward me: Oh! Poor Larlat! She was such a good rat, you must be so upset--you loved her so much!
DD: I did Mommy, I am so sad.
Inward me: Well I'm not--good riddance. Outward me: (Big hug and kiss.) Of course you are--anyone would be upset to have their pet die like that in the middle of the night.
DD: I am going to miss Larlat so much!
Inward me: Well I certainly won't. Outward me: I am so sorry, I know you'll miss her. She didn't deserve to die--she never did anything to hurt anyone.
DD: Mommy, can help me bury her?
Inward me: Yuck! Do I have to, can't we just call animal control or something? Outward me: Of course, she deserves a nice funeral. Maybe we can plan one in the morning.
DD: Yes--I'll invite my friends over who knew Larlat. I'll put her in a box for now and go to sleep. I'm so tired.
Inward me: So am I! Who wants to be woken up at three in the morning? Outward me: (Big hug and kiss again.) Okay, you really need some sleep after everything you and Larlat have been through and we'll have a big today tomorrow with her funeral.
Anonymous
06/26/2016 15:14
Subject: Using Validation therapy techique: need advice
Anonymous wrote:Word of caution op- my sister has done this for years with her now 20 year old. My niece was completely unprepared to hear any sort of constructive criticism from her college professors and employers. She always says they are unfair because she is used to the BT style you use.
So your sisters validation of her daughter has left her unprepared for criticism?
Most people don't enjoy criticism, that hardly means that validation is the cause.
Anonymous
06/26/2016 15:05
Subject: Using Validation therapy techique: need advice
Word of caution op- my sister has done this for years with her now 20 year old. My niece was completely unprepared to hear any sort of constructive criticism from her college professors and employers. She always says they are unfair because she is used to the BT style you use.
Anonymous
06/26/2016 12:17
Subject: Re:Using Validation therapy techique: need advice
Anonymous wrote:Just stumbled on this thread. My daughter is only 8, but yikes. This info is helpful and similar to a book I just read called "how to hug a porcupine."
Question is where can I get a short summary and or bullets to share with my husband. He is a big Part of the problem but will not read a book.
Thanks
Here's a place to start. Looks at the two sources at the end as well. Will see if I can dig up anything else.
http://www.wikihow.com/Validate-Someone's-Feelings
Anonymous
06/26/2016 00:13
Subject: Using Validation therapy techique: need advice
Good thread. I've had to learn to do this validation with my BPD spouse. He's doing better, and works hard in therapy, but he needs this kind of response so much. He has a lifetime of being invalidated by his parents. I've found myself doing it more and more, with everyone, pretty much.
It does come in very handy dealing with the kids, especially as they've moved into their teens. I swear my teens need a thousand times more patience than they needed as toddlers. And the only way they'll open up is when you talk to them in the way described by the poster who gave examples.
It does come in very handy dealing with the kids, especially as they've moved into their teens. I swear my teens need a thousand times more patience than they needed as toddlers. And the only way they'll open up is when you talk to them in the way described by the poster who gave examples.
Anonymous
06/25/2016 23:36
Subject: Re:Using Validation therapy techique: need advice
Just stumbled on this thread. My daughter is only 8, but yikes. This info is helpful and similar to a book I just read called "how to hug a porcupine."
Question is where can I get a short summary and or bullets to share with my husband. He is a big Part of the problem but will not read a book.
Thanks
Question is where can I get a short summary and or bullets to share with my husband. He is a big Part of the problem but will not read a book.
Thanks
Anonymous
06/25/2016 15:29
Subject: Re:Using Validation therapy techique: need advice
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:new poster here. I understand, in a layman's sense, what validation is and that it is important to validate people's feelings. This applies to co-workers, bosses, customers, spouses as well. But I'm also a little in the dark as to how this technique fits in with other aspects of parenting, like teaching your tween values and behavioral expectations? Validating feelings is fine, but doesn't this co-exist with addressing their actions?
Timing is important when trying to teach your tween values and expectations. The point of validation is that it is being used at a moment when you tween is emotionally charged and reaching out to you. When you use that moment in time to teach then you are shifting the focus from what they want to say to you, to you needing them to hear something from you.
Teaching them expectations and values is critically important, just do it when they can hear you rather than when they are processing something that is difficult for them. That will cut down on the conflict.
Yep, this. The time for a discussion about managing homework better is not during the homework-forgetting crisis. During the crisis--listen, validate, commiserate as appropriate.
Later, when things are calm, you can say, "I've been thinking a lot about your problem with your teacher. Do you think it would help if we thought up some ways to help you remember your homework?"
It's also important with school work to remember: You can't force your children to remember to turn in their homework, or to pay attention in school, or to try their best. They have to do these things on their own. I think it's best to remember that natural consequences are the best teachers. So, when your kid gets a bad grade because homework wasn't handed in, that's not something for the parent to ring her hands over. Instead, we should be happy that there is a natural consequence to help instill this lesson. And you can empathize with your child about the painful consequence, and then help them figure out how *he/she* can avoid the consequence in the future. *You* cannot avoid the consequence for them.
Honestly, things like flushing the toilet? I find stuff like this is best addressed with as little discussion as possible. Call child to the bathroom. Point to the offending toilet. Say, "Flush." Walk away.
How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk is a fantastic book.
Anonymous
06/23/2016 13:47
Subject: Re:Using Validation therapy techique: need advice
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:new poster here. I understand, in a layman's sense, what validation is and that it is important to validate people's feelings. This applies to co-workers, bosses, customers, spouses as well. But I'm also a little in the dark as to how this technique fits in with other aspects of parenting, like teaching your tween values and behavioral expectations? Validating feelings is fine, but doesn't this co-exist with addressing their actions?
Timing is important when trying to teach your tween values and expectations. The point of validation is that it is being used at a moment when you tween is emotionally charged and reaching out to you. When you use that moment in time to teach then you are shifting the focus from what they want to say to you, to you needing them to hear something from you.
Teaching them expectations and values is critically important, just do it when they can hear you rather than when they are processing something that is difficult for them. That will cut down on the conflict.
Totally agree with this advice. Practicing validation when your child is in emotional distress or when you need to talk to them about an undesirable behavior (no toilet flushing) is already a heavy load without trying to make this an opportunity to instill moral values as well. Kids generally tell you enough random things about what others have done (so and so got shoplifting), that you can use those times to convey your moral values and why you have them.
Anonymous
06/23/2016 13:32
Subject: Re:Using Validation therapy techique: need advice
Anonymous wrote:new poster here. I understand, in a layman's sense, what validation is and that it is important to validate people's feelings. This applies to co-workers, bosses, customers, spouses as well. But I'm also a little in the dark as to how this technique fits in with other aspects of parenting, like teaching your tween values and behavioral expectations? Validating feelings is fine, but doesn't this co-exist with addressing their actions?
Timing is important when trying to teach your tween values and expectations. The point of validation is that it is being used at a moment when you tween is emotionally charged and reaching out to you. When you use that moment in time to teach then you are shifting the focus from what they want to say to you, to you needing them to hear something from you.
Teaching them expectations and values is critically important, just do it when they can hear you rather than when they are processing something that is difficult for them. That will cut down on the conflict.
Anonymous
06/23/2016 13:21
Subject: Re:Using Validation therapy techique: need advice
PP--I am looking at this part of your message because it is a concrete example:
"After empathy alone, I'm guessing my kid would then say "yeah, she is the worst. I hate her." Then I would say something like "that's not fair or nice to say to her. You loved her last week. You're just angry because she embarrassed you today, which I understand, since I would be embarrassed too."
Your response to this would not be validating. You have assigned an emotion to her (anger) and made an inference about why she has it. The emotion is hers to own and figuring out why she has it is up to her, with some guidance from you. Validation can be hard because you have to filter your immediate thoughts and reactions so much.
Think about it: Your response gives her no out and she will feel like a cornered rat. No wonder she she pouts and storms off. What else can she do? Say: "Oh, you are so right Mom. The teacher should have embarrassed me for what I did." Not a chance.
Your goal here is not to be told you are right. It is to get her to start making inferences and conclusion about her feelings and her behaviors herself.
A more appropriate response would have been "I am so surprised to hear that. Just last week you said you loved her." Then comes the judgmental part. You can either wait for her response or add a question: "Did something happen?" The key is to make observations and neutral questions that she can respond to without discomfort and not make judgments or inferences.
With the toilet flushing (which I agree is uber annoying), start the conversation with something like "I see you didn't flush the toilet." Wait for a response--do not feel the need to rush in with words to fill up a verbal vacuum. If after a reasonable amount of time with no response or if she gives a "So what" response, follow with another observation. "An unflushed toilet tends to upset people." If she says something like I am not discussing this now, calmly say "Okay, this is important to the family. Could we discuss it at 6 this evening when you have more time?
I agree that what I would really like to do is shout out "Can't you just for once flush the damn toilet?" And indeed I did say things like that (minus damn as I don't swear but sure would have been thinking it). And it was getting me no where. Why couldn't this child follow the simplest rules and just behave? But I got to the point where I realized that nothing I was doing was changing her behavior so the only thing left was for me was to try to change my behavior and see what happened.
"After empathy alone, I'm guessing my kid would then say "yeah, she is the worst. I hate her." Then I would say something like "that's not fair or nice to say to her. You loved her last week. You're just angry because she embarrassed you today, which I understand, since I would be embarrassed too."
Your response to this would not be validating. You have assigned an emotion to her (anger) and made an inference about why she has it. The emotion is hers to own and figuring out why she has it is up to her, with some guidance from you. Validation can be hard because you have to filter your immediate thoughts and reactions so much.
Think about it: Your response gives her no out and she will feel like a cornered rat. No wonder she she pouts and storms off. What else can she do? Say: "Oh, you are so right Mom. The teacher should have embarrassed me for what I did." Not a chance.
Your goal here is not to be told you are right. It is to get her to start making inferences and conclusion about her feelings and her behaviors herself.
A more appropriate response would have been "I am so surprised to hear that. Just last week you said you loved her." Then comes the judgmental part. You can either wait for her response or add a question: "Did something happen?" The key is to make observations and neutral questions that she can respond to without discomfort and not make judgments or inferences.
With the toilet flushing (which I agree is uber annoying), start the conversation with something like "I see you didn't flush the toilet." Wait for a response--do not feel the need to rush in with words to fill up a verbal vacuum. If after a reasonable amount of time with no response or if she gives a "So what" response, follow with another observation. "An unflushed toilet tends to upset people." If she says something like I am not discussing this now, calmly say "Okay, this is important to the family. Could we discuss it at 6 this evening when you have more time?
I agree that what I would really like to do is shout out "Can't you just for once flush the damn toilet?" And indeed I did say things like that (minus damn as I don't swear but sure would have been thinking it). And it was getting me no where. Why couldn't this child follow the simplest rules and just behave? But I got to the point where I realized that nothing I was doing was changing her behavior so the only thing left was for me was to try to change my behavior and see what happened.
Anonymous
06/23/2016 13:11
Subject: Re:Using Validation therapy techique: need advice
new poster here. I understand, in a layman's sense, what validation is and that it is important to validate people's feelings. This applies to co-workers, bosses, customers, spouses as well. But I'm also a little in the dark as to how this technique fits in with other aspects of parenting, like teaching your tween values and behavioral expectations? Validating feelings is fine, but doesn't this co-exist with addressing their actions?
Anonymous
06/23/2016 11:52
Subject: Re:Using Validation therapy techique: need advice
Anonymous wrote:above PP here again. I want to point out that in the example cited, the kid is a dream kid, right? After empathy, the kid responds with "I guess I have to try harder." What if you're kid doesn't? Either they're too young or too immature or too ... something. After empathy alone, I'm guessing my kid would then say "yeah, she is the worst. I hate her." Then I would say something like "that's not fair or nice to say to her. You loved her last week. You're just angry because she embarrassed you today, which I understand, since I would be embarrassed too." Last year, DD would calm down and agree with me. Nowadays, she'd roll her eyes and mutter under her breath, if I'm lucky. Or scream at me that I'm the worst and stomp off slamming doors. Ugh. HELP!
If your kid doesn't say "I think I should try harder" then you don't say anything, the point is that you are validating what they say. If she says "yeah she is the worst, I hate her" then I would say "yes, you do sound angry."
If you reply with "that's not fair and nice, you loved her last week" that is the opposite of validating her, it's inserting your opinion and invalidating her feelings.
Anonymous
06/22/2016 16:47
Subject: Re:Using Validation therapy techique: need advice
above PP here again. I want to point out that in the example cited, the kid is a dream kid, right? After empathy, the kid responds with "I guess I have to try harder." What if you're kid doesn't? Either they're too young or too immature or too ... something. After empathy alone, I'm guessing my kid would then say "yeah, she is the worst. I hate her." Then I would say something like "that's not fair or nice to say to her. You loved her last week. You're just angry because she embarrassed you today, which I understand, since I would be embarrassed too." Last year, DD would calm down and agree with me. Nowadays, she'd roll her eyes and mutter under her breath, if I'm lucky. Or scream at me that I'm the worst and stomp off slamming doors. Ugh. HELP!