Anonymous
06/05/2015 15:23
Subject: I want to be a Lawyer...
OP, if you want to go into criminal law DO NOT take out loans to go to school. this will likely be a losing proposition. honestly, a lot of people barely break even if they get BIGLAW because they get pushed out after a few years, just after they have paid their loans off. and they end up in a job paying significantly less, so they just paid six figures to get a job that basically enabled them to pay off the loan before getting canned.
get a great LSAT score and a free ride to the best school you can get into. if you don't manage that (or at least get a scholarship that requires you to take out minimal loans), i would forget it and do something else with your life.
get a great LSAT score and a free ride to the best school you can get into. if you don't manage that (or at least get a scholarship that requires you to take out minimal loans), i would forget it and do something else with your life.
Anonymous
06/04/2015 21:30
Subject: Re:I want to be a Lawyer...
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Oh, OP. I was you. I was young. A pretty young thing with an eye toward taking the legal profession on. So, I can give you a happily ever after. But it was the product of my absolute grit and determination not to end up professional road kill.
I went to a top law school and did well. (OP, don't go unless you get into a top school and even then bust your ass because your performance is the biggest indicator of whether you are going to wash out. Particularly for women. We don't get the boys club benefits so we have to be twice as good.) But even then, you go into biglaw, OP and the race just keeps going.
I was that woman who got the lukewarm review (where I was told I was an idiot and never would accomplish anything of merit) and somehow landed a federal clerkship in what felt like minutes before the ax came for me. I am that woman who somehow parlayed that federal clerkship into an AUSA position (in flyover country but seriously who cares. I loved every second of my AUSA life). I was that woman who went through the revolving door and spent a bit of time as a biglaw partner before realizing that the game was as awful as I remembered as a much younger woman. I am that woman who had a (3rd) baby and decided to chuck it and am happily working in house.
I have spent more than 15 years running from patch to patch, job to job. I am always job hunting. I will always be job hunting until I retire. It is exhausting but I enjoy practicing law and have found ways to stay one step ahead of an industry hell bent on destroying my humanity. I am a white collar migrant worker. I have worked on both coasts. In major and tiny cities. And I will go anywhere if the deal is right and it keeps me afloat. I will survive. And I will do it with integrity.
I’m a kind person. I’m a good mom and wife. I volunteer and teach ESL on Sundays morning (because I don’t do church). I have a nice home and am eeking out an existence. I love my job. Absolutely love the day to day of being an attorney. But the industry? It’s hard. Really hard. And you have to be tough and you have to have no scruples because no one cares one whit about ruining your life if it would get them an inch closer to whatever they define as success. Law is a ruthless profession and I say that as someone who ostensibly “won” out.
I think the thing that people don’t realize is that we are out there. The survivors. But you have to be insanely tough to join us.
Haven't you posted this EXACT post on here a few times before? I've definitely read this before!
Thank you! I thought I was going crazy.
Here it is: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/465129.page
Although I do think her post is relevant and helpful to the OP, so I don't blame her for the copy/paste/slight modifications.
Anonymous
06/04/2015 20:59
Subject: Re:I want to be a Lawyer...
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Oh, OP. I was you. I was young. A pretty young thing with an eye toward taking the legal profession on. So, I can give you a happily ever after. But it was the product of my absolute grit and determination not to end up professional road kill.
I went to a top law school and did well. (OP, don't go unless you get into a top school and even then bust your ass because your performance is the biggest indicator of whether you are going to wash out. Particularly for women. We don't get the boys club benefits so we have to be twice as good.) But even then, you go into biglaw, OP and the race just keeps going.
I was that woman who got the lukewarm review (where I was told I was an idiot and never would accomplish anything of merit) and somehow landed a federal clerkship in what felt like minutes before the ax came for me. I am that woman who somehow parlayed that federal clerkship into an AUSA position (in flyover country but seriously who cares. I loved every second of my AUSA life). I was that woman who went through the revolving door and spent a bit of time as a biglaw partner before realizing that the game was as awful as I remembered as a much younger woman. I am that woman who had a (3rd) baby and decided to chuck it and am happily working in house.
I have spent more than 15 years running from patch to patch, job to job. I am always job hunting. I will always be job hunting until I retire. It is exhausting but I enjoy practicing law and have found ways to stay one step ahead of an industry hell bent on destroying my humanity. I am a white collar migrant worker. I have worked on both coasts. In major and tiny cities. And I will go anywhere if the deal is right and it keeps me afloat. I will survive. And I will do it with integrity.
I’m a kind person. I’m a good mom and wife. I volunteer and teach ESL on Sundays morning (because I don’t do church). I have a nice home and am eeking out an existence. I love my job. Absolutely love the day to day of being an attorney. But the industry? It’s hard. Really hard. And you have to be tough and you have to have no scruples because no one cares one whit about ruining your life if it would get them an inch closer to whatever they define as success. Law is a ruthless profession and I say that as someone who ostensibly “won” out.
I think the thing that people don’t realize is that we are out there. The survivors. But you have to be insanely tough to join us.
Haven't you posted this EXACT post on here a few times before? I've definitely read this before!
Thank you! I thought I was going crazy.
Anonymous
06/04/2015 19:44
Subject: I want to be a Lawyer...
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What are your credentials (college, GPA, masters degree?) and what was your LSAT score?
+1
I'd say this is pretty important. People who do well in college and on the LSAT tend to have what it takes to be lawyers. It tends to be a very competitive field with a lot of overachievers.
College GPA's mean nothing these days. Grade inflation is rampant. I say this as a recovering lawyer who works at a local law school in student services. LSAT is a decent predictor, but most students have no idea what they are getting themselves into. Every single one who walks in the door thinks they are special and will be in the top 10%. Ain't gonna happen.
Anonymous
06/04/2015 17:43
Subject: Re:I want to be a Lawyer...
Anonymous wrote:So you want to go to law school?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMvARy0lBLE
"If you say it's a living, breathing document, I may kill myself." LOL.
That's so awesome!
Anonymous
06/04/2015 16:45
Subject: I want to be a Lawyer...
Anonymous wrote:What are your credentials (college, GPA, masters degree?) and what was your LSAT score?
+1
I'd say this is pretty important. People who do well in college and on the LSAT tend to have what it takes to be lawyers. It tends to be a very competitive field with a lot of overachievers.
Anonymous
06/04/2015 16:44
Subject: I want to be a Lawyer...
Anonymous wrote:Hey OP, if you are really interested in criminal law, there's a great HBO documentary on public defender's, I think its called Gideon Something. ?
Gideon's Army.
Anonymous
06/04/2015 16:41
Subject: Re:I want to be a Lawyer...
OP, one of my very best friends is a criminal defense attorney in Chicago. She started out working with a small crim def firm and branched out on her own a few years ago. She absolutely loves it and her firm is doing really well. She is in court several times per week and tries a few cases every year. She works very hard (often from home unless she is meeting with clients or in court) but has a lot more freedom than those of us who work at bigger firms.
That said, it is not Law and Order. If you think you want to be a crim def attorney, find a job ASAP in a public defender's office or a crim def firm. It's not for everyone, and it may not be what you think it is. Get as much experience and exposure as you can before committing to law school. Although my friend is doing very well for herself now, the pay starting out of school is not good, especially if you will have student loans.
For my own part, I have mixed feelings about being a lawyer. I've been out of school over a decade and am fortunate to have a stable career that provides for my family, but it has been much more difficult than I imagined, in ways I never imagined. The politics of working with competitive and ruthless Type A people in firms that are still managed by old men who had stay-at-home-wives and employ the "old boys club" is something I did not anticipate. The impact that having a family has had on my career is also something I wish I would've appreciated more before going into this profession. I can handle the stress, the adversarial nature of litigation, the long hours, and the tedious nature of the work. I enjoy how challenging and interesting my practice can be at times. But I have come to the realization that this industry still has a long way to go in terms of women. Maybe these issues aren't as prevalent for women in the public sector or other types of firms, but just know it is still very much an issue in the profession as a whole.
That said, it is not Law and Order. If you think you want to be a crim def attorney, find a job ASAP in a public defender's office or a crim def firm. It's not for everyone, and it may not be what you think it is. Get as much experience and exposure as you can before committing to law school. Although my friend is doing very well for herself now, the pay starting out of school is not good, especially if you will have student loans.
For my own part, I have mixed feelings about being a lawyer. I've been out of school over a decade and am fortunate to have a stable career that provides for my family, but it has been much more difficult than I imagined, in ways I never imagined. The politics of working with competitive and ruthless Type A people in firms that are still managed by old men who had stay-at-home-wives and employ the "old boys club" is something I did not anticipate. The impact that having a family has had on my career is also something I wish I would've appreciated more before going into this profession. I can handle the stress, the adversarial nature of litigation, the long hours, and the tedious nature of the work. I enjoy how challenging and interesting my practice can be at times. But I have come to the realization that this industry still has a long way to go in terms of women. Maybe these issues aren't as prevalent for women in the public sector or other types of firms, but just know it is still very much an issue in the profession as a whole.
Anonymous
06/04/2015 15:27
Subject: Re:I want to be a Lawyer...
So you want to go to law school?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMvARy0lBLE
"If you say it's a living, breathing document, I may kill myself." LOL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMvARy0lBLE
"If you say it's a living, breathing document, I may kill myself." LOL.
Anonymous
06/04/2015 15:13
Subject: I want to be a Lawyer...
Hey OP, if you are really interested in criminal law, there's a great HBO documentary on public defender's, I think its called Gideon Something. ?
Anonymous
06/04/2015 15:12
Subject: I want to be a Lawyer...
I don't think its possible to support yourself as a criminal defense attorney or a public defender and pay back NYU-law loans. Isn't the tuition there obscenely expensive?
Anonymous
06/04/2015 15:11
Subject: I want to be a Lawyer...
What are your credentials (college, GPA, masters degree?) and what was your LSAT score?
Anonymous
06/04/2015 13:41
Subject: I want to be a Lawyer...
I guess to counter 13:17, my best friend and cousin graduated law school (definitely not 10 top ten, and she was definitely not in the top of her class) with lots of student loan debt, 100k plus.
She has always been a bit ambivalent about law, but has always had a decent job at a medium sized firm with regular hours, currently doing insurance law. She is happy and has a good work life balance.
So not everyone has a hard nosed exciting career in law, like many other occupations that people do to pay their bills.
Just another perspective
She has always been a bit ambivalent about law, but has always had a decent job at a medium sized firm with regular hours, currently doing insurance law. She is happy and has a good work life balance.
So not everyone has a hard nosed exciting career in law, like many other occupations that people do to pay their bills.
Just another perspective
Anonymous
06/04/2015 13:24
Subject: Re:I want to be a Lawyer...
Anonymous wrote:Oh, OP. I was you. I was young. A pretty young thing with an eye toward taking the legal profession on. So, I can give you a happily ever after. But it was the product of my absolute grit and determination not to end up professional road kill.
I went to a top law school and did well. (OP, don't go unless you get into a top school and even then bust your ass because your performance is the biggest indicator of whether you are going to wash out. Particularly for women. We don't get the boys club benefits so we have to be twice as good.) But even then, you go into biglaw, OP and the race just keeps going.
I was that woman who got the lukewarm review (where I was told I was an idiot and never would accomplish anything of merit) and somehow landed a federal clerkship in what felt like minutes before the ax came for me. I am that woman who somehow parlayed that federal clerkship into an AUSA position (in flyover country but seriously who cares. I loved every second of my AUSA life). I was that woman who went through the revolving door and spent a bit of time as a biglaw partner before realizing that the game was as awful as I remembered as a much younger woman. I am that woman who had a (3rd) baby and decided to chuck it and am happily working in house.
I have spent more than 15 years running from patch to patch, job to job. I am always job hunting. I will always be job hunting until I retire. It is exhausting but I enjoy practicing law and have found ways to stay one step ahead of an industry hell bent on destroying my humanity. I am a white collar migrant worker. I have worked on both coasts. In major and tiny cities. And I will go anywhere if the deal is right and it keeps me afloat. I will survive. And I will do it with integrity.
I’m a kind person. I’m a good mom and wife. I volunteer and teach ESL on Sundays morning (because I don’t do church). I have a nice home and am eeking out an existence. I love my job. Absolutely love the day to day of being an attorney. But the industry? It’s hard. Really hard. And you have to be tough and you have to have no scruples because no one cares one whit about ruining your life if it would get them an inch closer to whatever they define as success. Law is a ruthless profession and I say that as someone who ostensibly “won” out.
I think the thing that people don’t realize is that we are out there. The survivors. But you have to be insanely tough to join us.
Haven't you posted this EXACT post on here a few times before? I've definitely read this before!
Anonymous
06/04/2015 13:17
Subject: Re:I want to be a Lawyer...
Oh, OP. I was you. I was young. A pretty young thing with an eye toward taking the legal profession on. So, I can give you a happily ever after. But it was the product of my absolute grit and determination not to end up professional road kill.
I went to a top law school and did well. (OP, don't go unless you get into a top school and even then bust your ass because your performance is the biggest indicator of whether you are going to wash out. Particularly for women. We don't get the boys club benefits so we have to be twice as good.) But even then, you go into biglaw, OP and the race just keeps going.
I was that woman who got the lukewarm review (where I was told I was an idiot and never would accomplish anything of merit) and somehow landed a federal clerkship in what felt like minutes before the ax came for me. I am that woman who somehow parlayed that federal clerkship into an AUSA position (in flyover country but seriously who cares. I loved every second of my AUSA life). I was that woman who went through the revolving door and spent a bit of time as a biglaw partner before realizing that the game was as awful as I remembered as a much younger woman. I am that woman who had a (3rd) baby and decided to chuck it and am happily working in house.
I have spent more than 15 years running from patch to patch, job to job. I am always job hunting. I will always be job hunting until I retire. It is exhausting but I enjoy practicing law and have found ways to stay one step ahead of an industry hell bent on destroying my humanity. I am a white collar migrant worker. I have worked on both coasts. In major and tiny cities. And I will go anywhere if the deal is right and it keeps me afloat. I will survive. And I will do it with integrity.
I’m a kind person. I’m a good mom and wife. I volunteer and teach ESL on Sundays morning (because I don’t do church). I have a nice home and am eeking out an existence. I love my job. Absolutely love the day to day of being an attorney. But the industry? It’s hard. Really hard. And you have to be tough and you have to have no scruples because no one cares one whit about ruining your life if it would get them an inch closer to whatever they define as success. Law is a ruthless profession and I say that as someone who ostensibly “won” out.
I think the thing that people don’t realize is that we are out there. The survivors. But you have to be insanely tough to join us.
I went to a top law school and did well. (OP, don't go unless you get into a top school and even then bust your ass because your performance is the biggest indicator of whether you are going to wash out. Particularly for women. We don't get the boys club benefits so we have to be twice as good.) But even then, you go into biglaw, OP and the race just keeps going.
I was that woman who got the lukewarm review (where I was told I was an idiot and never would accomplish anything of merit) and somehow landed a federal clerkship in what felt like minutes before the ax came for me. I am that woman who somehow parlayed that federal clerkship into an AUSA position (in flyover country but seriously who cares. I loved every second of my AUSA life). I was that woman who went through the revolving door and spent a bit of time as a biglaw partner before realizing that the game was as awful as I remembered as a much younger woman. I am that woman who had a (3rd) baby and decided to chuck it and am happily working in house.
I have spent more than 15 years running from patch to patch, job to job. I am always job hunting. I will always be job hunting until I retire. It is exhausting but I enjoy practicing law and have found ways to stay one step ahead of an industry hell bent on destroying my humanity. I am a white collar migrant worker. I have worked on both coasts. In major and tiny cities. And I will go anywhere if the deal is right and it keeps me afloat. I will survive. And I will do it with integrity.
I’m a kind person. I’m a good mom and wife. I volunteer and teach ESL on Sundays morning (because I don’t do church). I have a nice home and am eeking out an existence. I love my job. Absolutely love the day to day of being an attorney. But the industry? It’s hard. Really hard. And you have to be tough and you have to have no scruples because no one cares one whit about ruining your life if it would get them an inch closer to whatever they define as success. Law is a ruthless profession and I say that as someone who ostensibly “won” out.
I think the thing that people don’t realize is that we are out there. The survivors. But you have to be insanely tough to join us.