if they add classes that is MORE classes

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at Murch and constantly hear about how overcrowded the school is. Anyone have insight into why Murch is accepting 10 OOB per grade next year, whereas Janney/Lafayette/etc. each have 0 to 2 OOB spots for each grade? I certainly understand the impulse to increase diversity and how OOB student do (and have traditionally) enriched the student body, but how can the crumbling and full to the gills facilities accept 60 more students?

OP, where did you get this information? Is it published somewhere?

OP here. It's available on myschooldc.org. Gaming the system or not, this seems like a ridiculous result. You still have to put those extra classes somewhere (i.e., more trailers.) And there are other issues -- stresses on specials, getting into extracurricular classes, sense of community -- that a larger student body certainly impacts. Besides the fact that it really seems to undercut the constant moaning about how overcrowded our school is if we are offering 10% of our spaces each year to OOB students. I agree with other posters, if my home was in the portion of the former Murch boundary that was rezoned to Hearst, I would be livid. Not that Hearst is not a great school -- it is -- but that the impetus behind the boundary reconfiguration is a complete fallacy when this many OOB kids are added every year.

To repeat: THIS WILL NOT RESULT IN THE ADDITION OF CLASSES OR THE NEED FOR MORE TRAILERS. These kids are filling spaces in classes that already exist. If these kids didn't attend, Murch would have fewer classes at each grade level with more kids per class than they have this year.

And I've personally seen no stress on extracurriculars or specials. Or the sense of community. THe last one, at least, is purely subjective--I don't really understand how the additional kids and their families have a negative impact here, but maybe "sense of community" is code for something else, OP?

Really, you are the first Murch parent I've heard complain about this. I certainly understand the argument others are making that bringing more kids into the Deal/Wilson path creates overcrowding down the line (assuming the kids come from areas that don't feed Deal and Wilson otherwise), but in terms of impact on Murch, specifically, I don't see evidence of an actual problem.

Added every year?

Unless you are privy to info the rest of us aren't I don't believe the OOB spots have been allotted for 2016-2017. Are you saying there will be 10 OOB spots in each grade next year?

Please explain more about stresses on specials or extracurriculars or community. We have been at the school when it was less than 500 and now as it approaches 700. I actually think the school is a lot better now. I love the specials rotation and we have had zero problem getting into any extracurricular (do you mean Hands in Science and the like-- most of which have been offered in the last few years).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at Murch and constantly hear about how overcrowded the school is. Anyone have insight into why Murch is accepting 10 OOB per grade next year, whereas Janney/Lafayette/etc. each have 0 to 2 OOB spots for each grade? I certainly understand the impulse to increase diversity and how OOB student do (and have traditionally) enriched the student body, but how can the crumbling and full to the gills facilities accept 60 more students?

OP, where did you get this information? Is it published somewhere?

OP here. It's available on myschooldc.org. Gaming the system or not, this seems like a ridiculous result. You still have to put those extra classes somewhere (i.e., more trailers.) And there are other issues -- stresses on specials, getting into extracurricular classes, sense of community -- that a larger student body certainly impacts. Besides the fact that it really seems to undercut the constant moaning about how overcrowded our school is if we are offering 10% of our spaces each year to OOB students. I agree with other posters, if my home was in the portion of the former Murch boundary that was rezoned to Hearst, I would be livid. Not that Hearst is not a great school -- it is -- but that the impetus behind the boundary reconfiguration is a complete fallacy when this many OOB kids are added every year.

It is not moot that the school Murch feeds into is already overcrowded. Is it?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so what was the point of the boundary review then? Seems to me, if Murch's boundaries were shrunk because they were too overcrowded, how can anyone turn around and say, shucks, we have plenty of room to add 60 kids. Seems to me, deft hand of the principal or not, that someone is totally gaming the system.

It's why no one downtown cares that they keep getting booted down the renovation list; everyone knows that they are gaming the system so the cries of "overcrowded!!" fall on deaf ears.

OK, lets put you in charge for a moment: You have one first grade class in your school. The WTU says the maximum recommended size is 22. You have enrollment of 28 this year and based on your school's history, you can expect 5 more kids to enroll in that class next year. DCPS says you cannot hire a teacher for a room unless you have at least 22 students in that room. What do you do?

Yes, that makes sense. And that has been the policy before at Murch, way back when it had about half the number of students it has now. And the wonderful mix of kids from all over the city made Murch the gem that it was. But Murch now has 4 first grade classes, not 1. Multiple trailers, not 1. A shrunken boundary due to overcrowding, not an increased one or a merged one to fill up the classrooms. Of course Murch welcomes kids from all parts of the city, but is it good planning or even fair to kick out some kids who were in-boundary, to make space for those who are not? The reality may be that, instead of 3 first grade classrooms of 19, 19 and 6, you go down to 2 classrooms of 22. You don't increase your enrollment so you keep the 3 classrooms.

Ok first no child was kicked out of Murch or any school for that matter. Also there is zero reason to go down to fewer classes and fire teachers instead of adding a very limited amount of kids to replace those for whom you already planned to attend. In your example of you add in 10 more kids the class size would still be smaller than not adding them in. Do you spend any time at the school? If think if you do you should spend more. How they work with their limited space is pretty amazing. Plus this will all be moot soon enough.

There is no "acceptance" -- schools can offer a seat to a waitlisted family if available and the family may or may accept the offer. By K and up anyone waitlisted is OOB because otherwise they're guaranteed a spot by right

Anonymous wrote:We are at Murch and constantly hear about how overcrowded the school is. Anyone have insight into why Murch is accepting 10 OOB per grade next year, whereas Janney/Lafayette/etc. each have 0 to 2 OOB spots for each grade? I certainly understand the impulse to increase diversity and how OOB student do (and have traditionally) enriched the student body, but how can the crumbling and full to the gills facilities accept 60 more students?

OP, where did you get this information? Is it published somewhere?

Anonymous wrote:PP, do you mean they would go to Deal anyhow?

Does anyone actually go to their neighborhood ES anymore??? This whole thing is ridiculous.

PP, do you mean they would go to Deal anyhow?

Anonymous wrote:And just how does adding more oob kids at an already overly full Murch help to solve overcrowding at Deal?
Sorry, my logical brain just does not get it.
Eaton parents, where are you?

I don't know where the vast majority of Murch OOB families are coming from. However, the majority of Eaton and Hearst families are from Crestwood, 16th Street Heights, and Mt. Pleasant, or just across the park and already zoned for Deal. People always forget to factor this in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so what was the point of the boundary review then? Seems to me, if Murch's boundaries were shrunk because they were too overcrowded, how can anyone turn around and say, shucks, we have plenty of room to add 60 kids. Seems to me, deft hand of the principal or not, that someone is totally gaming the system.

It's why no one downtown cares that they keep getting booted down the renovation list; everyone knows that they are gaming the system so the cries of "overcrowded!!" fall on deaf ears.

OK, lets put you in charge for a moment: You have one first grade class in your school. The WTU says the maximum recommended size is 22. You have enrollment of 28 this year and based on your school's history, you can expect 5 more kids to enroll in that class next year. DCPS says you cannot hire a teacher for a room unless you have at least 22 students in that room. What do you do?

Yes, that makes sense. And that has been the policy before at Murch, way back when it had about half the number of students it has now. And the wonderful mix of kids from all over the city made Murch the gem that it was. But Murch now has 4 first grade classes, not 1. Multiple trailers, not 1. A shrunken boundary due to overcrowding, not an increased one or a merged one to fill up the classrooms. Of course Murch welcomes kids from all parts of the city, but is it good planning or even fair to kick out some kids who were in-boundary, to make space for those who are not? The reality may be that, instead of 3 first grade classrooms of 19, 19 and 6, you go down to 2 classrooms of 22. You don't increase your enrollment so you keep the 3 classrooms.

Anonymous wrote:I think the folks (who I assume are at Murch) make a very reasonable case. If I were the principal and was faced with a situation where I could have one very overcrowded classroom or two reasonable sized classrooms, would probably opt for the second.

But overall city planners should face broader incentives. If you were them, you should look at the situation and say if I allow this principal to take more OOB students, then over time the middle school that it feeds into will be even more overcrowded. I might even need to remove a feeder elementary school just to accommodate this sort of behavior. Hence if I were that city planner, I would not allow the principal to take more children.

exactly, there are other ways to manage class size than have a runaway system of adding students to an overcrowded school. this affects other schools than much due to the OOB feeder rights. take those away and much can do what it wants to.

I think the folks (who I assume are at Murch) make a very reasonable case. If I were the principal and was faced with a situation where I could have one very overcrowded classroom or two reasonable sized classrooms, would probably opt for the second.

But overall city planners should face broader incentives. If you were them, you should look at the situation and say if I allow this principal to take more OOB students, then over time the middle school that it feeds into will be even more overcrowded. I might even need to remove a feeder elementary school just to accommodate this sort of behavior. Hence if I were that city planner, I would not allow the principal to take more children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so what was the point of the boundary review then? Seems to me, if Murch's boundaries were shrunk because they were too overcrowded, how can anyone turn around and say, shucks, we have plenty of room to add 60 kids. Seems to me, deft hand of the principal or not, that someone is totally gaming the system.

It's why no one downtown cares that they keep getting booted down the renovation list; everyone knows that they are gaming the system so the cries of "overcrowded!!" fall on deaf ears.

OK, lets put you in charge for a moment: You have one first grade class in your school. The WTU says the maximum recommended size is 22. You have enrollment of 28 this year and based on your school's history, you can expect 5 more kids to enroll in that class next year. DCPS says you cannot hire a teacher for a room unless you have at least 22 students in that room. What do you do?