Anonymous
Post 05/31/2015 07:34     Subject: What kind of perks does Indian heritage give you at schools?
Anonymous wrote:They immediately set up a home visit and want to learn about your customs. They will totally set you at ease while they extend their visit. They might even tell some more people from the school to come over to your house to visit. They explain that they will educate your kids but it will be in another language. Then slowly but surely they will have you "gift" your house to them and you need to find a new place. Don't worry it will only be two hours away and it's not like they make you leave empty handed, they give will give you blankets to take with you that we're only used once by tsome anti-vax families.


Which school district is that?
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2015 07:31     Subject: What kind of perks does Indian heritage give you at schools?
My mom's great grandmother was Native American (not sure what that makes me).
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2015 07:25     Subject: What kind of perks does Indian heritage give you at schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You mean Native American or Indian from India the country?


The correct term for "native American" is Indian. Or, maybe "American Indian."

The term "native American" is politically incorrect. Please don't use it.


I thought "Indian" was a racial slur and one was supposed to say either "Native American" or "First Nations Person"?
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2015 00:35     Subject: Re:What kind of perks does Indian heritage give you at schools?
So... as a parent of multiethnic children, I am hoping that their Native American and European ancestry will counterbalance their east and south Asian ancestry in the admissions game. Sigh. Truly, I find all this ethnic beancounting ridiculous.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2015 00:14     Subject: What kind of perks does Indian heritage give you at schools?
It doesn't seem fair that some middle class kid who grew up in a middle class neighborhood, lived a typica Americanl middle class life and had only seen American Indians on TV, gets an advantage in getting into aschool because of his great great great grandmother.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2015 07:40     Subject: What kind of perks does Indian heritage give you at schools?
Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately, though, the schools report the numbers of students in each group. Therefore, for their purposes, the kid from Chevy Chase who is 1/16 Native American is just as "valuable" as the kid from the reservation. Maybe more so, actually, because the kid from Chevy Chase probably has SAT scores that will boost that average number too.


I think you are underestimating the thought that admissions officers out into trying to build a class that is actually strong and well-balanced. What is the substantial "value" they get from inflating the number of Indians? They get some diversity marketing, which has some limited utility. They don't usually directly benefit from funding made available to minority students, which usually runs through grant programs to the student. If they are trying to game admissions ratings like US News and World Reports, they actually have a strong disincentive to provide a benefit to minorities because grades and test scores matter much more in the rating.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2015 07:29     Subject: What kind of perks does Indian heritage give you at schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:IMO, I don't think greatx2 NA should qualify. That makes you like 1/8? At that point, you don't even look NA.


My great-great-grandparents walked from Tennessee to Oklahoma on the Trail of Tears, a forced march instigated by the US Government in which their property was seized and they were made into internal refugees, put in concentration camps, then forced to march a thousand miles, which led to the death of a third of the tribe. It was genocide. If I got a slight admissions advantage because of my native American ancestry (my family has documented our genealogy and registered as Cherokee with the tribe in Tahlequah), I'm not going to feel any guilt.

And you probably wouldn't think my ancestors "looked NA" either....the east coast tribes have intermarried with Europeans since the 1500s and many Cherokee have blue eyes and light skin.


Yes, you will get admissions preference. Because these great-great-grandchildren are working on overcoming serious obstacles with regard to their educations.


Not that PP. I think you are trying to make a sarcastic point about the fact that what happened three generations ago is not particularly relevant to obstacles faced by the descendants of those Indians. Is that generally correct? This is in fact an incredibly ignorant thing to say. There are 15 federal tribes with unemployment rates over EIGHTY percent. This is unquestionably a relic of being slaughtered on mass, discriminated against, denied educational opportunities, and being relocated to land that was specifically chosen because it was isolated and barren. To not believe that the Federal government's concerted action is directly responsible for the extraordinarily bad economic conditions of current Indian tribes requires either an extraordinary amount of ignorance or willful denial.

Now, if you want to point out that some relatively small percentage of people who are only 1/16th Indian happened to have ancestors who married into more fortunate families several generations ago, that is doubtless true. Of course, Tribes self regulate their membership to some extent to make sure their citizens still have a meaningful connection to the tribe, so those descendants who long ago found better opportunities are often not recognized members to begin with. But in any case, given the actual socioeconomic condition of many Indian tribes, a member of those tribes who has performed well enough in school and on standardized testing to be even a plausible candidate for a top school has in fact done something extraordinary in achieving so much.

If I were on an admissions board of a school, and I had two plausible candidates for admission, one who grew up in Chevy Chase, and one who grew up on a Navajo reservation, I would certainly find the Navajo candidate's achievements more impressive relative to the resources available to him or her. And I say that as a parent of children who will grow up in Chevy Chase.


And in families like mine, my grandfather got on a path to financial success by hiding his Cherokee ancestry and "passing." Not fair to say I'm "not Indian enough" when there is massive racism against Indians. My grandparents could not have gotten married in Virginia when they did if my grandfather claimed his heritage (my grandmother is white).


In reality, Virginia didn't recognize any tribes and reclassified all native peoples as Negro.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2015 07:28     Subject: What kind of perks does Indian heritage give you at schools?
Unfortunately, though, the schools report the numbers of students in each group. Therefore, for their purposes, the kid from Chevy Chase who is 1/16 Native American is just as "valuable" as the kid from the reservation. Maybe more so, actually, because the kid from Chevy Chase probably has SAT scores that will boost that average number too.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2015 07:28     Subject: Re:What kind of perks does Indian heritage give you at schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Native Americans is the right word. Columbus is long dead.


But the word America came with Columbus, who, as you point out, is long dead.

Shall we call them the natives, or the locals?


Actually Columbus died thinking he'd been in Asia. America came later in honor of Amerigo Vespucchi, an Italian mapmaker.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2015 06:50     Subject: What kind of perks does Indian heritage give you at schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:IMO, I don't think greatx2 NA should qualify. That makes you like 1/8? At that point, you don't even look NA.


My great-great-grandparents walked from Tennessee to Oklahoma on the Trail of Tears, a forced march instigated by the US Government in which their property was seized and they were made into internal refugees, put in concentration camps, then forced to march a thousand miles, which led to the death of a third of the tribe. It was genocide. If I got a slight admissions advantage because of my native American ancestry (my family has documented our genealogy and registered as Cherokee with the tribe in Tahlequah), I'm not going to feel any guilt.

And you probably wouldn't think my ancestors "looked NA" either....the east coast tribes have intermarried with Europeans since the 1500s and many Cherokee have blue eyes and light skin.


Yes, you will get admissions preference. Because these great-great-grandchildren are working on overcoming serious obstacles with regard to their educations.


Not that PP. I think you are trying to make a sarcastic point about the fact that what happened three generations ago is not particularly relevant to obstacles faced by the descendants of those Indians. Is that generally correct? This is in fact an incredibly ignorant thing to say. There are 15 federal tribes with unemployment rates over EIGHTY percent. This is unquestionably a relic of being slaughtered on mass, discriminated against, denied educational opportunities, and being relocated to land that was specifically chosen because it was isolated and barren. To not believe that the Federal government's concerted action is directly responsible for the extraordinarily bad economic conditions of current Indian tribes requires either an extraordinary amount of ignorance or willful denial.

Now, if you want to point out that some relatively small percentage of people who are only 1/16th Indian happened to have ancestors who married into more fortunate families several generations ago, that is doubtless true. Of course, Tribes self regulate their membership to some extent to make sure their citizens still have a meaningful connection to the tribe, so those descendants who long ago found better opportunities are often not recognized members to begin with. But in any case, given the actual socioeconomic condition of many Indian tribes, a member of those tribes who has performed well enough in school and on standardized testing to be even a plausible candidate for a top school has in fact done something extraordinary in achieving so much.

If I were on an admissions board of a school, and I had two plausible candidates for admission, one who grew up in Chevy Chase, and one who grew up on a Navajo reservation, I would certainly find the Navajo candidate's achievements more impressive relative to the resources available to him or her. And I say that as a parent of children who will grow up in Chevy Chase.


What about an admissions officer having to decide between a child who grew up in Chevy Chase with no Native American ancestry to one in Chevy Chase who is 1/16 Native American. Is the choice obvious there, too?


No, I don't think it is as obvious. But I also found the OP's question a bit silly and distasteful. I don't think managing to check a box that says you're Native American automatically wins you some free perks like you're using a coupon code on a website or something. I think that admissions officers can and should use an applicant's bacground hollistically as one factor in weighing the merits of a candidate's application.

Often when people get frustrated at the supposed unfairness of admissions policies that benefit disadvantaged groups, it is because they think of it as a perk that the group gets that they don't. That's not what it is. It is a recognition that if two students have a similar track record of achievement and one of them faced more obstacles in achieving those milestones, that students's accomplishments are more impressive, in the same way that if two people run 100 meters in very similar times but one of them also leaped hurdles as she ran, the latter accomplishment is more impressive.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2015 06:39     Subject: What kind of perks does Indian heritage give you at schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:IMO, I don't think greatx2 NA should qualify. That makes you like 1/8? At that point, you don't even look NA.


My great-great-grandparents walked from Tennessee to Oklahoma on the Trail of Tears, a forced march instigated by the US Government in which their property was seized and they were made into internal refugees, put in concentration camps, then forced to march a thousand miles, which led to the death of a third of the tribe. It was genocide. If I got a slight admissions advantage because of my native American ancestry (my family has documented our genealogy and registered as Cherokee with the tribe in Tahlequah), I'm not going to feel any guilt.

And you probably wouldn't think my ancestors "looked NA" either....the east coast tribes have intermarried with Europeans since the 1500s and many Cherokee have blue eyes and light skin.


Yes, you will get admissions preference. Because these great-great-grandchildren are working on overcoming serious obstacles with regard to their educations.


Not that PP. I think you are trying to make a sarcastic point about the fact that what happened three generations ago is not particularly relevant to obstacles faced by the descendants of those Indians. Is that generally correct? This is in fact an incredibly ignorant thing to say. There are 15 federal tribes with unemployment rates over EIGHTY percent. This is unquestionably a relic of being slaughtered on mass, discriminated against, denied educational opportunities, and being relocated to land that was specifically chosen because it was isolated and barren. To not believe that the Federal government's concerted action is directly responsible for the extraordinarily bad economic conditions of current Indian tribes requires either an extraordinary amount of ignorance or willful denial.

Now, if you want to point out that some relatively small percentage of people who are only 1/16th Indian happened to have ancestors who married into more fortunate families several generations ago, that is doubtless true. Of course, Tribes self regulate their membership to some extent to make sure their citizens still have a meaningful connection to the tribe, so those descendants who long ago found better opportunities are often not recognized members to begin with. But in any case, given the actual socioeconomic condition of many Indian tribes, a member of those tribes who has performed well enough in school and on standardized testing to be even a plausible candidate for a top school has in fact done something extraordinary in achieving so much.

If I were on an admissions board of a school, and I had two plausible candidates for admission, one who grew up in Chevy Chase, and one who grew up on a Navajo reservation, I would certainly find the Navajo candidate's achievements more impressive relative to the resources available to him or her. And I say that as a parent of children who will grow up in Chevy Chase.


What about an admissions officer having to decide between a child who grew up in Chevy Chase with no Native American ancestry to one in Chevy Chase who is 1/16 Native American. Is the choice obvious there, too?
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2015 06:31     Subject: What kind of perks does Indian heritage give you at schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:IMO, I don't think greatx2 NA should qualify. That makes you like 1/8? At that point, you don't even look NA.


My great-great-grandparents walked from Tennessee to Oklahoma on the Trail of Tears, a forced march instigated by the US Government in which their property was seized and they were made into internal refugees, put in concentration camps, then forced to march a thousand miles, which led to the death of a third of the tribe. It was genocide. If I got a slight admissions advantage because of my native American ancestry (my family has documented our genealogy and registered as Cherokee with the tribe in Tahlequah), I'm not going to feel any guilt.

And you probably wouldn't think my ancestors "looked NA" either....the east coast tribes have intermarried with Europeans since the 1500s and many Cherokee have blue eyes and light skin.


Yes, you will get admissions preference. Because these great-great-grandchildren are working on overcoming serious obstacles with regard to their educations.


Not that PP. I think you are trying to make a sarcastic point about the fact that what happened three generations ago is not particularly relevant to obstacles faced by the descendants of those Indians. Is that generally correct? This is in fact an incredibly ignorant thing to say. There are 15 federal tribes with unemployment rates over EIGHTY percent. This is unquestionably a relic of being slaughtered on mass, discriminated against, denied educational opportunities, and being relocated to land that was specifically chosen because it was isolated and barren. To not believe that the Federal government's concerted action is directly responsible for the extraordinarily bad economic conditions of current Indian tribes requires either an extraordinary amount of ignorance or willful denial.

Now, if you want to point out that some relatively small percentage of people who are only 1/16th Indian happened to have ancestors who married into more fortunate families several generations ago, that is doubtless true. Of course, Tribes self regulate their membership to some extent to make sure their citizens still have a meaningful connection to the tribe, so those descendants who long ago found better opportunities are often not recognized members to begin with. But in any case, given the actual socioeconomic condition of many Indian tribes, a member of those tribes who has performed well enough in school and on standardized testing to be even a plausible candidate for a top school has in fact done something extraordinary in achieving so much.

If I were on an admissions board of a school, and I had two plausible candidates for admission, one who grew up in Chevy Chase, and one who grew up on a Navajo reservation, I would certainly find the Navajo candidate's achievements more impressive relative to the resources available to him or her. And I say that as a parent of children who will grow up in Chevy Chase.


And in families like mine, my grandfather got on a path to financial success by hiding his Cherokee ancestry and "passing." Not fair to say I'm "not Indian enough" when there is massive racism against Indians. My grandparents could not have gotten married in Virginia when they did if my grandfather claimed his heritage (my grandmother is white).
Anonymous
Post 05/29/2015 23:00     Subject: What kind of perks does Indian heritage give you at schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You mean Native American or Indian from India the country?


Native American, obviously.


Its not obvious, given most of the world has caught up with the idea that calling a Native American an INDIAN is long past its sell by date.
Anonymous
Post 05/29/2015 22:37     Subject: What kind of perks does Indian heritage give you at schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:IMO, I don't think greatx2 NA should qualify. That makes you like 1/8? At that point, you don't even look NA.


My great-great-grandparents walked from Tennessee to Oklahoma on the Trail of Tears, a forced march instigated by the US Government in which their property was seized and they were made into internal refugees, put in concentration camps, then forced to march a thousand miles, which led to the death of a third of the tribe. It was genocide. If I got a slight admissions advantage because of my native American ancestry (my family has documented our genealogy and registered as Cherokee with the tribe in Tahlequah), I'm not going to feel any guilt.

And you probably wouldn't think my ancestors "looked NA" either....the east coast tribes have intermarried with Europeans since the 1500s and many Cherokee have blue eyes and light skin.


Yes, you will get admissions preference. Because these great-great-grandchildren are working on overcoming serious obstacles with regard to their educations.


Not that PP. I think you are trying to make a sarcastic point about the fact that what happened three generations ago is not particularly relevant to obstacles faced by the descendants of those Indians. Is that generally correct? This is in fact an incredibly ignorant thing to say. There are 15 federal tribes with unemployment rates over EIGHTY percent. This is unquestionably a relic of being slaughtered on mass, discriminated against, denied educational opportunities, and being relocated to land that was specifically chosen because it was isolated and barren. To not believe that the Federal government's concerted action is directly responsible for the extraordinarily bad economic conditions of current Indian tribes requires either an extraordinary amount of ignorance or willful denial.

Now, if you want to point out that some relatively small percentage of people who are only 1/16th Indian happened to have ancestors who married into more fortunate families several generations ago, that is doubtless true. Of course, Tribes self regulate their membership to some extent to make sure their citizens still have a meaningful connection to the tribe, so those descendants who long ago found better opportunities are often not recognized members to begin with. But in any case, given the actual socioeconomic condition of many Indian tribes, a member of those tribes who has performed well enough in school and on standardized testing to be even a plausible candidate for a top school has in fact done something extraordinary in achieving so much.

If I were on an admissions board of a school, and I had two plausible candidates for admission, one who grew up in Chevy Chase, and one who grew up on a Navajo reservation, I would certainly find the Navajo candidate's achievements more impressive relative to the resources available to him or her. And I say that as a parent of children who will grow up in Chevy Chase.
Anonymous
Post 05/29/2015 22:21     Subject: Re:What kind of perks does Indian heritage give you at schools?
Anonymous wrote:Native Americans is the right word. Columbus is long dead.


But the word America came with Columbus, who, as you point out, is long dead.

Shall we call them the natives, or the locals?