Anonymous
Post 05/17/2015 20:52     Subject: Re:Dumbing down Flint Hill AAP?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We currently have one child in the AAP class at FHES. I am very disappointed and shocked at the decision FHES has made. Having experienced the program as it stands, I have to agree that FHES is dismantling its AAP curricula. We have not had any issues of cliques and kids not wanting to be with each other in the APP class. In our experience having kids together that want to learn more and have the capacity to excel resulted in everyone nudging each other forward. Saying that all kids can learn social studies and science at an advanced level is absurd. We would never say that about kids in a traveling vs. non traveling soccer team. The school could have met their objective of more intermingling by letting the kids have specials, lunch, and recess together. If you want an environment of peers where your child will be encouraged to do their best in academics don't stay at FHES. If you think the social aspects of school are important and the transition to a new school will be too much for your 8 year old, then, stay at FHES. The emotional well-being of children is also important.


Also, I don't understand the need for gifted kids to be surrounded by peers to encourage them. Aren't they supposed to be self motivated?


(FYI, I am not the OP or any PP.)
The larger issue is not just peers but teaching. When our child was in mixed classes, the teachers simply had to give more of their time and attention to the kids who needed more help, which makes sense. But that left the kids who were doing more and doing it faster to either to do busy work, rather than more challenging and in-depth work. More advanced work doesn't come in the form of busy work; it requires the teacher to be engaged in discussion with the kids and to have time inside and outside class to create (and grade) bigger projects and papers etc. That doesn't really happen in "differentiated classrooms" from what we observed. This hurts not just AAP qualified kids but the Gen Ed kids who are also moving faster and wanting more to do that's more interesting. The teachers aren't at fault -- they have to bring up the kids who are having trouble and that gets priority, from the school as well as the individual teachers, over any "enrichment." The idea of the center model was not just for students but for teachers, to allow them to teach at a different level and pace than they can in classes where the range of aptitude is much larger.

That said....there's no reason theoretically not to have AAP kids grouped for some subjects and not grouped for others, as long as the teaching is able to give all kids real differentiation and meet their needs. Maybe it can and does happen; it's just not something we saw as realistically happening in our base school (which was not FH). To the OP: I do agree with a PP who noted that your kid would be in the initial years of this new format (new to FH, at least) and that's something to consider. Yes, someone has to be first in any change. But if you are concerned about your child being in that first group (not just next year but as the new format moves up through sixth grade), then talk to the center school again about how it sees its classes as different from the model FH is going to be using.
Anonymous
Post 05/15/2015 22:48     Subject: Re:Dumbing down Flint Hill AAP?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We currently have one child in the AAP class at FHES. I am very disappointed and shocked at the decision FHES has made. Having experienced the program as it stands, I have to agree that FHES is dismantling its AAP curricula. We have not had any issues of cliques and kids not wanting to be with each other in the APP class. In our experience having kids together that want to learn more and have the capacity to excel resulted in everyone nudging each other forward. Saying that all kids can learn social studies and science at an advanced level is absurd. We would never say that about kids in a traveling vs. non traveling soccer team. The school could have met their objective of more intermingling by letting the kids have specials, lunch, and recess together. If you want an environment of peers where your child will be encouraged to do their best in academics don't stay at FHES. If you think the social aspects of school are important and the transition to a new school will be too much for your 8 year old, then, stay at FHES. The emotional well-being of children is also important.


Also, I don't understand the need for gifted kids to be surrounded by peers to encourage them. Aren't they supposed to be self motivated?


"heterogeneous grouping has positive socioemotional outcomes for gifted children and negative ones for non-gifted children."

http://www.gifted.uconn.edu/nrcgt/kennarch.html
Anonymous
Post 05/15/2015 22:38     Subject: Re:Dumbing down Flint Hill AAP?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Dumb and proud of it is their motto. If you want a challenge for your DC, go to the center school.


Exhibit A why center schools need to be a thing of the past.


isn't that dumb and proud posting a slap at Flint Hill?
Anonymous
Post 05/15/2015 22:28     Subject: Re:Dumbing down Flint Hill AAP?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We currently have one child in the AAP class at FHES. I am very disappointed and shocked at the decision FHES has made. Having experienced the program as it stands, I have to agree that FHES is dismantling its AAP curricula. We have not had any issues of cliques and kids not wanting to be with each other in the APP class. In our experience having kids together that want to learn more and have the capacity to excel resulted in everyone nudging each other forward. Saying that all kids can learn social studies and science at an advanced level is absurd. We would never say that about kids in a traveling vs. non traveling soccer team. The school could have met their objective of more intermingling by letting the kids have specials, lunch, and recess together. If you want an environment of peers where your child will be encouraged to do their best in academics don't stay at FHES. If you think the social aspects of school are important and the transition to a new school will be too much for your 8 year old, then, stay at FHES. The emotional well-being of children is also important.


Also, I don't understand the need for gifted kids to be surrounded by peers to encourage them. Aren't they supposed to be self motivated?


One would think so. But then, the majority aren't gifted kids in the first place.
Anonymous
Post 05/15/2015 22:23     Subject: Re:Dumbing down Flint Hill AAP?
Anonymous wrote:Dumb and proud of it is their motto. If you want a challenge for your DC, go to the center school.


Exhibit A why center schools need to be a thing of the past.
Anonymous
Post 05/15/2015 21:39     Subject: Re:Dumbing down Flint Hill AAP?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We currently have one child in the AAP class at FHES. I am very disappointed and shocked at the decision FHES has made. Having experienced the program as it stands, I have to agree that FHES is dismantling its AAP curricula. We have not had any issues of cliques and kids not wanting to be with each other in the APP class. In our experience having kids together that want to learn more and have the capacity to excel resulted in everyone nudging each other forward. Saying that all kids can learn social studies and science at an advanced level is absurd. We would never say that about kids in a traveling vs. non traveling soccer team. The school could have met their objective of more intermingling by letting the kids have specials, lunch, and recess together. If you want an environment of peers where your child will be encouraged to do their best in academics don't stay at FHES. If you think the social aspects of school are important and the transition to a new school will be too much for your 8 year old, then, stay at FHES. The emotional well-being of children is also important.


Also, I don't understand the need for gifted kids to be surrounded by peers to encourage them. Aren't they supposed to be self motivated?


Nope, giftedness is high intellectual ability, not self motivation.


I'll take your comment more seriously when you can give specifics to why general ed kids can't do the AAP science curriculum like I asked.


I am not the poster to whom you are asking this question.

It is not that general ed kids cannot do AAP science curriculum. My experience with kids, which is not a whole lot beyond what I saw from volunteering at my child's class - but which I do quite a bit, is that there is a large difference between kids in the rates at which they pick up new stuff. I am not sure if we can really call this giftedness, it does not mean the rest are dumb. Maybe those who take time to absorb information, the way it is currently taught might not be the best approach for them. But for whatever reason, there is a big difference in the speed with which kids can understand concepts and apply them. AAP is really separating out kids on this basis. I do not think even the best of teachers could do much when you have a bunch of kids that take in information at vastly different speeds. It invariably ends up at the pace of the slowest student.

My child learns best not when I sit with her with paper and pencil, but when she is sitting in traffic, taking a walk or when we are just doing nothing. I taught her most of the math in this manner. But this way she picks up math concepts really quickly and she got into the habit of visualizing numbers. If she had been introduced to math in class I suspect she would be deemed slow. Just by accident, she ended up being very good at math. I shudder to think how many kids are being hindered by the way some of the subjects are taught. I do not blame teachers or the educational system, it is just very very tough to figure out the best way to teach something to different kids.



The way they do the AAP math is that they basically skip 3rd grade math and teach 4th grade math and then the next year teach 5th grade math and so on. I don't think Flint Hill ever taught more than 1 grade above. So really, in that class, they were still going over 1 year's worth of curriculum, not more. A child that was advanced at math, might eventually get bored anyway. And there are so many redshirted kids, that many of them probably got the same instruction in math if they were in AAP as they would have if they were in general ed without being redshifted. So even in AAP math, Flint Hill wasn't teaching more than one year's worth of curriculum. Science and Social studies from what I see are taught on an alternating 3 week cycle about 3 hours a week. They are broken into units of study and there is only so much that can be taught and absorbed on the unit in 9 hours. My question to you is can you give an example of something that would be taught in one of these 9 week cycles that a general ed student from Flint Hill Elementary couldn't do during the time allotted? Because they are teaching the AAP curriculum to all of them, so really it shouldn't affect an AAP child as much as a general ed child. What particularly are you worried about missing out on in 3rd grade? I'd be specific if you are trying to figure out what the changes are because otherwise they'll just say they're teaching the AAP curriculum to all and there are no changes from last year with the curriculum. You should find out what the hardest projects and work the kids did this year and then check if they are still teaching these next year.
Anonymous
Post 05/15/2015 21:34     Subject: Dumbing down Flint Hill AAP?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:All the 3rd grade teachers at Flint Hill are incredibly strong.


That is good to know.

But even good teachers would find it very tough to differentiate between AAP and Gen Ed students. When you have a class made up of say 6 AAP and 20 Gen Ed students, guess what they would target?



They'd probably "target" the kids who were struggling while the AAP kids worked on advance material. Then on the playground and at lunch they might have to "target" their energies to the AAP kids who lack social skills and have difficulty getting along in a non-classroom environment. Every has needs to be met.
Anonymous
Post 05/15/2015 21:28     Subject: Dumbing down Flint Hill AAP?
Continuing from above.

This is why I feel Flint Hill is basically abandoning the concept of AAP.

I can guess why. This would be popular with the majority of the families who are general ed because they just feel their kids are being left behind or in some manner being disadvantaged.

Flint Hill policy of AAP for all is misguided but a populist approach of a genuinely good principal. PTA no wonder is paying for all the teachers to get AAP certified.
Anonymous
Post 05/15/2015 21:15     Subject: Re:Dumbing down Flint Hill AAP?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We currently have one child in the AAP class at FHES. I am very disappointed and shocked at the decision FHES has made. Having experienced the program as it stands, I have to agree that FHES is dismantling its AAP curricula. We have not had any issues of cliques and kids not wanting to be with each other in the APP class. In our experience having kids together that want to learn more and have the capacity to excel resulted in everyone nudging each other forward. Saying that all kids can learn social studies and science at an advanced level is absurd. We would never say that about kids in a traveling vs. non traveling soccer team. The school could have met their objective of more intermingling by letting the kids have specials, lunch, and recess together. If you want an environment of peers where your child will be encouraged to do their best in academics don't stay at FHES. If you think the social aspects of school are important and the transition to a new school will be too much for your 8 year old, then, stay at FHES. The emotional well-being of children is also important.


Also, I don't understand the need for gifted kids to be surrounded by peers to encourage them. Aren't they supposed to be self motivated?


Nope, giftedness is high intellectual ability, not self motivation.


I'll take your comment more seriously when you can give specifics to why general ed kids can't do the AAP science curriculum like I asked.


I am not the poster to whom you are asking this question.

It is not that general ed kids cannot do AAP science curriculum. My experience with kids, which is not a whole lot beyond what I saw from volunteering at my child's class - but which I do quite a bit, is that there is a large difference between kids in the rates at which they pick up new stuff. I am not sure if we can really call this giftedness, it does not mean the rest are dumb. Maybe those who take time to absorb information, the way it is currently taught might not be the best approach for them. But for whatever reason, there is a big difference in the speed with which kids can understand concepts and apply them. AAP is really separating out kids on this basis. I do not think even the best of teachers could do much when you have a bunch of kids that take in information at vastly different speeds. It invariably ends up at the pace of the slowest student.

My child learns best not when I sit with her with paper and pencil, but when she is sitting in traffic, taking a walk or when we are just doing nothing. I taught her most of the math in this manner. But this way she picks up math concepts really quickly and she got into the habit of visualizing numbers. If she had been introduced to math in class I suspect she would be deemed slow. Just by accident, she ended up being very good at math. I shudder to think how many kids are being hindered by the way some of the subjects are taught. I do not blame teachers or the educational system, it is just very very tough to figure out the best way to teach something to different kids.

Anonymous
Post 05/15/2015 19:37     Subject: Re:Dumbing down Flint Hill AAP?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We currently have one child in the AAP class at FHES. I am very disappointed and shocked at the decision FHES has made. Having experienced the program as it stands, I have to agree that FHES is dismantling its AAP curricula. We have not had any issues of cliques and kids not wanting to be with each other in the APP class. In our experience having kids together that want to learn more and have the capacity to excel resulted in everyone nudging each other forward. Saying that all kids can learn social studies and science at an advanced level is absurd. We would never say that about kids in a traveling vs. non traveling soccer team. The school could have met their objective of more intermingling by letting the kids have specials, lunch, and recess together. If you want an environment of peers where your child will be encouraged to do their best in academics don't stay at FHES. If you think the social aspects of school are important and the transition to a new school will be too much for your 8 year old, then, stay at FHES. The emotional well-being of children is also important.


Also, I don't understand the need for gifted kids to be surrounded by peers to encourage them. Aren't they supposed to be self motivated?


Nope, giftedness is high intellectual ability, not self motivation.


I'll take your comment more seriously when you can give specifics to why general ed kids can't do the AAP science curriculum like I asked.
Anonymous
Post 05/15/2015 18:16     Subject: Re:Dumbing down Flint Hill AAP?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We currently have one child in the AAP class at FHES. I am very disappointed and shocked at the decision FHES has made. Having experienced the program as it stands, I have to agree that FHES is dismantling its AAP curricula. We have not had any issues of cliques and kids not wanting to be with each other in the APP class. In our experience having kids together that want to learn more and have the capacity to excel resulted in everyone nudging each other forward. Saying that all kids can learn social studies and science at an advanced level is absurd. We would never say that about kids in a traveling vs. non traveling soccer team. The school could have met their objective of more intermingling by letting the kids have specials, lunch, and recess together. If you want an environment of peers where your child will be encouraged to do their best in academics don't stay at FHES. If you think the social aspects of school are important and the transition to a new school will be too much for your 8 year old, then, stay at FHES. The emotional well-being of children is also important.


Also, I don't understand the need for gifted kids to be surrounded by peers to encourage them. Aren't they supposed to be self motivated?


Nope, giftedness is high intellectual ability, not self motivation.
Anonymous
Post 05/15/2015 17:14     Subject: Re:Dumbing down Flint Hill AAP?
Anonymous wrote:We currently have one child in the AAP class at FHES. I am very disappointed and shocked at the decision FHES has made. Having experienced the program as it stands, I have to agree that FHES is dismantling its AAP curricula. We have not had any issues of cliques and kids not wanting to be with each other in the APP class. In our experience having kids together that want to learn more and have the capacity to excel resulted in everyone nudging each other forward. Saying that all kids can learn social studies and science at an advanced level is absurd. We would never say that about kids in a traveling vs. non traveling soccer team. The school could have met their objective of more intermingling by letting the kids have specials, lunch, and recess together. If you want an environment of peers where your child will be encouraged to do their best in academics don't stay at FHES. If you think the social aspects of school are important and the transition to a new school will be too much for your 8 year old, then, stay at FHES. The emotional well-being of children is also important.

Are you not concerned about the "us vs them" dynamic that exists in grades 3-6? Actually, it starts in 2nd grade once the children find out who was found eligible.
Anonymous
Post 05/15/2015 17:04     Subject: Re:Dumbing down Flint Hill AAP?
Anonymous wrote:We currently have one child in the AAP class at FHES. I am very disappointed and shocked at the decision FHES has made. Having experienced the program as it stands, I have to agree that FHES is dismantling its AAP curricula. We have not had any issues of cliques and kids not wanting to be with each other in the APP class. In our experience having kids together that want to learn more and have the capacity to excel resulted in everyone nudging each other forward. Saying that all kids can learn social studies and science at an advanced level is absurd. We would never say that about kids in a traveling vs. non traveling soccer team. The school could have met their objective of more intermingling by letting the kids have specials, lunch, and recess together. If you want an environment of peers where your child will be encouraged to do their best in academics don't stay at FHES. If you think the social aspects of school are important and the transition to a new school will be too much for your 8 year old, then, stay at FHES. The emotional well-being of children is also important.


Also, I don't understand the need for gifted kids to be surrounded by peers to encourage them. Aren't they supposed to be self motivated?
Anonymous
Post 05/15/2015 16:39     Subject: Re:Dumbing down Flint Hill AAP?
Anonymous wrote:We currently have one child in the AAP class at FHES. I am very disappointed and shocked at the decision FHES has made. Having experienced the program as it stands, I have to agree that FHES is dismantling its AAP curricula. We have not had any issues of cliques and kids not wanting to be with each other in the APP class. In our experience having kids together that want to learn more and have the capacity to excel resulted in everyone nudging each other forward. Saying that all kids can learn social studies and science at an advanced level is absurd. We would never say that about kids in a traveling vs. non traveling soccer team. The school could have met their objective of more intermingling by letting the kids have specials, lunch, and recess together. If you want an environment of peers where your child will be encouraged to do their best in academics don't stay at FHES. If you think the social aspects of school are important and the transition to a new school will be too much for your 8 year old, then, stay at FHES. The emotional well-being of children is also important.


What in particular has your AAP child done in science and social studies that the other classes have not done? Of that learning, what do you think cannot be handled by other students at FHES? This is a serious question that I'd like to understand further. If anyone should be upset, I would think it would be the general ed families that might find the curriculum too challenging since you seem to think they can't handle it.
Anonymous
Post 05/15/2015 16:20     Subject: Re:Dumbing down Flint Hill AAP?
We currently have one child in the AAP class at FHES. I am very disappointed and shocked at the decision FHES has made. Having experienced the program as it stands, I have to agree that FHES is dismantling its AAP curricula. We have not had any issues of cliques and kids not wanting to be with each other in the APP class. In our experience having kids together that want to learn more and have the capacity to excel resulted in everyone nudging each other forward. Saying that all kids can learn social studies and science at an advanced level is absurd. We would never say that about kids in a traveling vs. non traveling soccer team. The school could have met their objective of more intermingling by letting the kids have specials, lunch, and recess together. If you want an environment of peers where your child will be encouraged to do their best in academics don't stay at FHES. If you think the social aspects of school are important and the transition to a new school will be too much for your 8 year old, then, stay at FHES. The emotional well-being of children is also important.