If you are looking at AAP mostly because of your child's friends, then it will be a brain drain for you.
If you are looking at AAP to see if it's a good fit for your child, then spend the $400 to get the WISC.
But don't just get the WISC because you want to get a score, get it because you want to learn about your child. The test report will come with pages of information on how your child thinks. It's gong to be useful for you no matter what school she ends up in.

Believe me, there is no difference once they get to high school. Some AAP kids are at the top--and some fail. Some Gened kids are at the top and some fail. (Sure, more Gened kids may fail, but,believe me, AAP kids fail, too.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here...thanks for the replies thus far. I'm not even truly convinced that DC needs a "different learning environment." DC will be successful in his/her current school. Do I think DC could do a bit more? Yes. DC is on grade level with math, and slightly above grade level in reading.

In addition, the brain drain really just pisses me off. All these great, high performing, wonderful children who are sent to the AAP center... I hate that DC will lose those friendships.

You keep mentioning this "brain drain." Your DC is still left; do you not think there are others still left that are at least as smart as your DC? Either you think DC will test well enough to get into AAP, in which case have him/her tested, or you don't think so, in which case he/she will remain at the base school among others in a similar boat. It's not like it's your smart DC alone with a bunch of morons at the base school. There are plenty of "normal" kids left who are plenty bright but don't have the scores to make AAP.

Perhaps, but the point is also that there are probably kids who have left that are not as smart as OP's kid and that's when you really have to look at this whole AAP segregation thing and think it's a crapshoot. Better when the program was only for gifted kids. It made everyone's decision a lot easier. And it was more fair. The current system oftentimes rewards squeaky wheels and the pushiest parents. It's ruining FCPS.

Absolutely true. And now, even as the Gen Ed classes are dwindling, more and more Gen Ed kids are being pulled out of FCPS by their parents in favor of private schools, directly due to the ridiculous AAP system of segregating students. My DC told me this week that FIVE of DC's friends from class (Gen Ed) won't be back next year. Thanks, FCPS, for setting up this stratified system that makes the kids not in AAP feel somehow less than, even if they're perfectly normal, average/above average kids. Such a shame what has become of what used to be a very good school system that actually had some common sense.

I'm sorry this is true at your school, but it's not true at ours, a non-center, LLIV school. Level 3 kids are lotteried into the Level 4 classroom, and then kids are shuffled again for math (all Level 4 kids take math with students from all classes who tested into advanced math). DS is in a gen ed classroom and takes advanced math with the Level 4 kids. I'm not aware that the kids in the non-Level 4 class feel any stigma, or that gen ed classes are dwindling. To the extent I would want to pull out my kid for private (and I would if money were no object) it's not because he is not in AAP but because the classes are too big and I feel like any kid who is on grade level and doesn't have special needs is basically ignored because teachers have to devote limited resources to kids who are struggling. Maybe it's different at center schools.

I tend to think where there's a stigma, it's ultimately created by parents -- parents of Level 4 kids who tell their kids they are better than others, and parents of gen ed kids who project their feelings of disappointment onto their kids.

It is absolutely different at center schools. There are distinct AAP and Gen Ed classrooms - yes, the advanced math GE kids take math with the AAP kids, but other than that, the classes aren't mixed at all. And at our center, there are far more AAP classes than Gen Ed, and this imbalance is only getting worse as more Gen Ed kids leave FCPS altogether. It's looking like next year, there will be 4 AAP classes and 1 Gen Ed in the 6th grade alone. So not only are the Gen Ed kids outnumbered, the kids are clearly split into separate classrooms. So perhaps you'd have a different view of this set up if your child was attending a center school as a Gen Ed student.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here...thanks for the replies thus far. I'm not even truly convinced that DC needs a "different learning environment." DC will be successful in his/her current school. Do I think DC could do a bit more? Yes. DC is on grade level with math, and slightly above grade level in reading.

In addition, the brain drain really just pisses me off. All these great, high performing, wonderful children who are sent to the AAP center... I hate that DC will lose those friendships.

You keep mentioning this "brain drain." Your DC is still left; do you not think there are others still left that are at least as smart as your DC? Either you think DC will test well enough to get into AAP, in which case have him/her tested, or you don't think so, in which case he/she will remain at the base school among others in a similar boat. It's not like it's your smart DC alone with a bunch of morons at the base school. There are plenty of "normal" kids left who are plenty bright but don't have the scores to make AAP.

Perhaps, but the point is also that there are probably kids who have left that are not as smart as OP's kid and that's when you really have to look at this whole AAP segregation thing and think it's a crapshoot. Better when the program was only for gifted kids. It made everyone's decision a lot easier. And it was more fair. The current system oftentimes rewards squeaky wheels and the pushiest parents. It's ruining FCPS.

Absolutely true. And now, even as the Gen Ed classes are dwindling, more and more Gen Ed kids are being pulled out of FCPS by their parents in favor of private schools, directly due to the ridiculous AAP system of segregating students. My DC told me this week that FIVE of DC's friends from class (Gen Ed) won't be back next year. Thanks, FCPS, for setting up this stratified system that makes the kids not in AAP feel somehow less than, even if they're perfectly normal, average/above average kids. Such a shame what has become of what used to be a very good school system that actually had some common sense.

I'm sorry this is true at your school, but it's not true at ours, a non-center, LLIV school. Level 3 kids are lotteried into the Level 4 classroom, and then kids are shuffled again for math (all Level 4 kids take math with students from all classes who tested into advanced math). DS is in a gen ed classroom and takes advanced math with the Level 4 kids. I'm not aware that the kids in the non-Level 4 class feel any stigma, or that gen ed classes are dwindling. To the extent I would want to pull out my kid for private (and I would if money were no object) it's not because he is not in AAP but because the classes are too big and I feel like any kid who is on grade level and doesn't have special needs is basically ignored because teachers have to devote limited resources to kids who are struggling. Maybe it's different at center schools.

I tend to think where there's a stigma, it's ultimately created by parents -- parents of Level 4 kids who tell their kids they are better than others, and parents of gen ed kids who project their feelings of disappointment onto their kids.

Yes, someone told my kid that they are going to AAP because they are "really smart." I tell my child, it is because they have different learning needs that they go to the other school. Still, really?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here...thanks for the replies thus far. I'm not even truly convinced that DC needs a "different learning environment." DC will be successful in his/her current school. Do I think DC could do a bit more? Yes. DC is on grade level with math, and slightly above grade level in reading.

In addition, the brain drain really just pisses me off. All these great, high performing, wonderful children who are sent to the AAP center... I hate that DC will lose those friendships.

You keep mentioning this "brain drain." Your DC is still left; do you not think there are others still left that are at least as smart as your DC? Either you think DC will test well enough to get into AAP, in which case have him/her tested, or you don't think so, in which case he/she will remain at the base school among others in a similar boat. It's not like it's your smart DC alone with a bunch of morons at the base school. There are plenty of "normal" kids left who are plenty bright but don't have the scores to make AAP.

Perhaps, but the point is also that there are probably kids who have left that are not as smart as OP's kid and that's when you really have to look at this whole AAP segregation thing and think it's a crapshoot. Better when the program was only for gifted kids. It made everyone's decision a lot easier. And it was more fair. The current system oftentimes rewards squeaky wheels and the pushiest parents. It's ruining FCPS.

Absolutely true. And now, even as the Gen Ed classes are dwindling, more and more Gen Ed kids are being pulled out of FCPS by their parents in favor of private schools, directly due to the ridiculous AAP system of segregating students. My DC told me this week that FIVE of DC's friends from class (Gen Ed) won't be back next year. Thanks, FCPS, for setting up this stratified system that makes the kids not in AAP feel somehow less than, even if they're perfectly normal, average/above average kids. Such a shame what has become of what used to be a very good school system that actually had some common sense.

I'm sorry this is true at your school, but it's not true at ours, a non-center, LLIV school. Level 3 kids are lotteried into the Level 4 classroom, and then kids are shuffled again for math (all Level 4 kids take math with students from all classes who tested into advanced math). DS is in a gen ed classroom and takes advanced math with the Level 4 kids. I'm not aware that the kids in the non-Level 4 class feel any stigma, or that gen ed classes are dwindling. To the extent I would want to pull out my kid for private (and I would if money were no object) it's not because he is not in AAP but because the classes are too big and I feel like any kid who is on grade level and doesn't have special needs is basically ignored because teachers have to devote limited resources to kids who are struggling. Maybe it's different at center schools.

I tend to think where there's a stigma, it's ultimately created by parents -- parents of Level 4 kids who tell their kids they are better than others, and parents of gen ed kids who project their feelings of disappointment onto their kids.

You can say this because of how things are at your child's school. At our base school, there is no local level IV and no compacted math. If in class differentiation in 3-5 is anything like K-2, there isn't much of that either. Level III is a weekly pull out to do fun activities, not advanced math we opted to send DC to the center because of this. It's not fair that the kids at the base school have so few options.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here...thanks for the replies thus far. I'm not even truly convinced that DC needs a "different learning environment." DC will be successful in his/her current school. Do I think DC could do a bit more? Yes. DC is on grade level with math, and slightly above grade level in reading.

In addition, the brain drain really just pisses me off. All these great, high performing, wonderful children who are sent to the AAP center... I hate that DC will lose those friendships.

You keep mentioning this "brain drain." Your DC is still left; do you not think there are others still left that are at least as smart as your DC? Either you think DC will test well enough to get into AAP, in which case have him/her tested, or you don't think so, in which case he/she will remain at the base school among others in a similar boat. It's not like it's your smart DC alone with a bunch of morons at the base school. There are plenty of "normal" kids left who are plenty bright but don't have the scores to make AAP.

Perhaps, but the point is also that there are probably kids who have left that are not as smart as OP's kid and that's when you really have to look at this whole AAP segregation thing and think it's a crapshoot. Better when the program was only for gifted kids. It made everyone's decision a lot easier. And it was more fair. The current system oftentimes rewards squeaky wheels and the pushiest parents. It's ruining FCPS.

Absolutely true. And now, even as the Gen Ed classes are dwindling, more and more Gen Ed kids are being pulled out of FCPS by their parents in favor of private schools, directly due to the ridiculous AAP system of segregating students. My DC told me this week that FIVE of DC's friends from class (Gen Ed) won't be back next year. Thanks, FCPS, for setting up this stratified system that makes the kids not in AAP feel somehow less than, even if they're perfectly normal, average/above average kids. Such a shame what has become of what used to be a very good school system that actually had some common sense.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here...thanks for the replies thus far. I'm not even truly convinced that DC needs a "different learning environment." DC will be successful in his/her current school. Do I think DC could do a bit more? Yes. DC is on grade level with math, and slightly above grade level in reading.

In addition, the brain drain really just pisses me off. All these great, high performing, wonderful children who are sent to the AAP center... I hate that DC will lose those friendships.

You keep mentioning this "brain drain." Your DC is still left; do you not think there are others still left that are at least as smart as your DC? Either you think DC will test well enough to get into AAP, in which case have him/her tested, or you don't think so, in which case he/she will remain at the base school among others in a similar boat. It's not like it's your smart DC alone with a bunch of morons at the base school. There are plenty of "normal" kids left who are plenty bright but don't have the scores to make AAP.

Perhaps, but the point is also that there are probably kids who have left that are not as smart as OP's kid and that's when you really have to look at this whole AAP segregation thing and think it's a crapshoot. Better when the program was only for gifted kids. It made everyone's decision a lot easier. And it was more fair. The current system oftentimes rewards squeaky wheels and the pushiest parents. It's ruining FCPS.

Absolutely true. And now, even as the Gen Ed classes are dwindling, more and more Gen Ed kids are being pulled out of FCPS by their parents in favor of private schools, directly due to the ridiculous AAP system of segregating students. My DC told me this week that FIVE of DC's friends from class (Gen Ed) won't be back next year. Thanks, FCPS, for setting up this stratified system that makes the kids not in AAP feel somehow less than, even if they're perfectly normal, average/above average kids. Such a shame what has become of what used to be a very good school system that actually had some common sense.

I'm sorry this is true at your school, but it's not true at ours, a non-center, LLIV school. Level 3 kids are lotteried into the Level 4 classroom, and then kids are shuffled again for math (all Level 4 kids take math with students from all classes who tested into advanced math). DS is in a gen ed classroom and takes advanced math with the Level 4 kids. I'm not aware that the kids in the non-Level 4 class feel any stigma, or that gen ed classes are dwindling. To the extent I would want to pull out my kid for private (and I would if money were no object) it's not because he is not in AAP but because the classes are too big and I feel like any kid who is on grade level and doesn't have special needs is basically ignored because teachers have to devote limited resources to kids who are struggling. Maybe it's different at center schools.

I tend to think where there's a stigma, it's ultimately created by parents -- parents of Level 4 kids who tell their kids they are better than others, and parents of gen ed kids who project their feelings of disappointment onto their kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here...thanks for the replies thus far. I'm not even truly convinced that DC needs a "different learning environment." DC will be successful in his/her current school. Do I think DC could do a bit more? Yes. DC is on grade level with math, and slightly above grade level in reading.

In addition, the brain drain really just pisses me off. All these great, high performing, wonderful children who are sent to the AAP center... I hate that DC will lose those friendships.

You keep mentioning this "brain drain." Your DC is still left; do you not think there are others still left that are at least as smart as your DC? Either you think DC will test well enough to get into AAP, in which case have him/her tested, or you don't think so, in which case he/she will remain at the base school among others in a similar boat. It's not like it's your smart DC alone with a bunch of morons at the base school. There are plenty of "normal" kids left who are plenty bright but don't have the scores to make AAP.

Perhaps, but the point is also that there are probably kids who have left that are not as smart as OP's kid and that's when you really have to look at this whole AAP segregation thing and think it's a crapshoot. Better when the program was only for gifted kids. It made everyone's decision a lot easier. And it was more fair. The current system oftentimes rewards squeaky wheels and the pushiest parents. It's ruining FCPS.

Absolutely true. And now, even as the Gen Ed classes are dwindling, more and more Gen Ed kids are being pulled out of FCPS by their parents in favor of private schools, directly due to the ridiculous AAP system of segregating students. My DC told me this week that FIVE of DC's friends from class (Gen Ed) won't be back next year. Thanks, FCPS, for setting up this stratified system that makes the kids not in AAP feel somehow less than, even if they're perfectly normal, average/above average kids. Such a shame what has become of what used to be a very good school system that actually had some common sense.

Anonymous wrote:

I'm left to wonder if FCPS does any follow-up on outcomes. Wish all this segregation nonsense - in the early grades especially, would go away.

I've wondered that for years. Anecdotally, I see no difference.

I've had three high schoolers so far, one now in college. With the exception of perhaps a tiny handful of kids, there is no difference in the outcomes of the vast majority of these kids, whether former AAP or Gen Ed students. It's just a non-factor in how well they perform in high school.

Elementary and middle school would be much happier years for everyone if the center model went away.

The current system oftentimes rewards squeaky wheels and the pushiest parents. It's ruining FCPS.

This.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here...thanks for the replies thus far. I'm not even truly convinced that DC needs a "different learning environment." DC will be successful in his/her current school. Do I think DC could do a bit more? Yes. DC is on grade level with math, and slightly above grade level in reading.

In addition, the brain drain really just pisses me off. All these great, high performing, wonderful children who are sent to the AAP center... I hate that DC will lose those friendships.

You keep mentioning this "brain drain." Your DC is still left; do you not think there are others still left that are at least as smart as your DC? Either you think DC will test well enough to get into AAP, in which case have him/her tested, or you don't think so, in which case he/she will remain at the base school among others in a similar boat. It's not like it's your smart DC alone with a bunch of morons at the base school. There are plenty of "normal" kids left who are plenty bright but don't have the scores to make AAP.

Perhaps, but the point is also that there are probably kids who have left that are not as smart as OP's kid and that's when you really have to look at this whole AAP segregation thing and think it's a crapshoot. Better when the program was only for gifted kids. It made everyone's decision a lot easier. And it was more fair. The current system oftentimes rewards squeaky wheels and the pushiest parents. It's ruining FCPS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here...thanks for the replies thus far. I'm not even truly convinced that DC needs a "different learning environment." DC will be successful in his/her current school. Do I think DC could do a bit more? Yes. DC is on grade level with math, and slightly above grade level in reading.

In addition, the brain drain really just pisses me off. All these great, high performing, wonderful children who are sent to the AAP center... I hate that DC will lose those friendships.

You keep mentioning this "brain drain." Your DC is still left; do you not think there are others still left that are at least as smart as your DC? Either you think DC will test well enough to get into AAP, in which case have him/her tested, or you don't think so, in which case he/she will remain at the base school among others in a similar boat. It's not like it's your smart DC alone with a bunch of morons at the base school. There are plenty of "normal" kids left who are plenty bright but don't have the scores to make AAP.

+1,000
Thank you for pointing out what should be obvious. I'm so sick of hearing about this mythical "brain drain". Yes, too many kids are accepted into AAP, but there are still lots who barely missed admittance in Gen Ed and are just as bright as those who got in. This is why the admittance criteria needs to be seriously raised so that all of these mainstream kids who are getting in stay with their peers in Gen Ed. Or else AAP needs to fall by the wayside and instead have all the kids educated together, using flexible groups (advanced, middle, regular) depending on who needs what. There's far too much overlap in the two groups (AAP/Gen Ed) of kids to segregate them.

OP here... My kid was in the 94th percentile for age on the combined score for the COgAT. If that, with a strong GBRS doesn't do it...

I'm left to wonder if FCPS does any follow-up on outcomes. Wish all this segregation nonsense - in the early grades especially, would go away.

I've wondered that for years. Anecdotally, I see no difference.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here...thanks for the replies thus far. I'm not even truly convinced that DC needs a "different learning environment." DC will be successful in his/her current school. Do I think DC could do a bit more? Yes. DC is on grade level with math, and slightly above grade level in reading.

In addition, the brain drain really just pisses me off. All these great, high performing, wonderful children who are sent to the AAP center... I hate that DC will lose those friendships.

You keep mentioning this "brain drain." Your DC is still left; do you not think there are others still left that are at least as smart as your DC? Either you think DC will test well enough to get into AAP, in which case have him/her tested, or you don't think so, in which case he/she will remain at the base school among others in a similar boat. It's not like it's your smart DC alone with a bunch of morons at the base school. There are plenty of "normal" kids left who are plenty bright but don't have the scores to make AAP.

+1,000
Thank you for pointing out what should be obvious. I'm so sick of hearing about this mythical "brain drain". Yes, too many kids are accepted into AAP, but there are still lots who barely missed admittance in Gen Ed and are just as bright as those who got in. This is why the admittance criteria needs to be seriously raised so that all of these mainstream kids who are getting in stay with their peers in Gen Ed. Or else AAP needs to fall by the wayside and instead have all the kids educated together, using flexible groups (advanced, middle, regular) depending on who needs what. There's far too much overlap in the two groups (AAP/Gen Ed) of kids to segregate them.

We are in a similar boat with my 3rd grader. His brother did AAP, and is now in 7th AAP. His younger sister (2nd) was just found eligible for AAP, and will attend the Center next year. We really struggled with whether we wanted to split them apart, but in the end decided to send DD. This year, all year, she has had 1 other child in her reading group. Thus far, this is my only way to gauge what the academic peer situation is like, but in our case, we have the cases of extremes.

My DS was borderline last year, and was not found eligible with borderline test scores on Naglieri, and lower CogAT and a 16 GBRS. Last year, his closest friend left for the Center. One of his other very good friends is leaving after this year. These were his academic peers, reading buddies, Young Scholars classmates. We have limited outside friendship opportunities that have been hard to overcome due to language barriers, despite my best efforts.

If that many educators looked at his scores, and files and felt he should remain at the base school, we decided to trust that they were correct.

He has had a great year at the base so far, he is a leader. I think at the AAP Center, with huge class sizes, and his special needs/IEP, he might fall through the cracks.