Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a PhD, I don't think formal education is necessarily the direct path to a well paid job any longer. It is actually the opposite, the lack of education is. Too many teenagers and college drop-out creating start-ups out their basements while the rest of us are left drowning in education debt.

Innovation is the path to a well paid job, formal education is the path to learning about what someone else innovated.

+1

While I get what you are saying, every start up really only needs 1 or 2 top innovators/ creators (and that is not talking about the MANY failed starts)- when one of them blows up they hire people with pedigree educations. Facebook only has 1 Zuckerberg, they have almost 10K employees and you bet your bottom that they aren't mostly college dropouts. I have a great friend who recruited for Google in SE Asia for about 4 years. She would always say that you not only needed credentials but you practically needed a "gimmick" to get in the door at Google US, great school and solid experience, just OK, also took sabbatical to travel to inoculate orphans on a mountainside village inaccessible by cars, well now we might interview you. (Not saying developing nation work is a "gimmick" just to say that in the field you are romanticizing as being filled with pioneers who drop out, it isn't really accurate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It won't stop. The more accessible formal education is, the less valuable it is on the market. Supply and demand.

And people can't make a good living with working class/ blue collar jobs. What are we going to do, America?

Really? Ask your plumber what he makes. Now ask your electrician.

Don't delude yourself: most blue collar people are not working in a skilled trade. I'm talking about the nannies, restaurant employees, maintenance workers, fast food workers, big box store employees, etc etc etc. These jobs are essential to our society and our economy. It is unsustainable and unjust that the only jobs that offer living wages and benefits are those that require (at minimum, as we can see) a bachelor's degree.

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a PhD, I don't think formal education is necessarily the direct path to a well paid job any longer. It is actually the opposite, the lack of education is. Too many teenagers and college drop-out creating start-ups out their basements while the rest of us are left drowning in education debt.

Innovation is the path to a well paid job, formal education is the path to learning about what someone else innovated.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The PhD has become the next masters in a lot of hard sciences like chemistry and biology.

+1000
Actually a PhD is worse in these fields since it puts people in the overqualified category.


THIS IS ME, RIGHT NOW.

I was recently told I am "woefully over-qualified" for a job that would've been an excellent fit.

Sort of. It's a catch 22--super hard to get a job right out of a PhD (way harder than bachelors or masters), but if you want to progress in your career, eventually you need one. I was talking to someone in business development from a large biotech company, and they said that even though it technically doesn't require a PhD, everyone on their business development team has one. At some point to have credibility in management you need a PhD. Same for a lot of other careers like editorial jobs, the more technical areas of patent law, and some policy jobs. So frustrating. It's much easier to get a job with a bachelors/masters, but then you are stuck there.

You are freaking me out with this statement.
-a lowly BS holder

Both DH and I make over 200k with our lowly bachelors degrees. For my last two jobs I don't think anyone even cared if I had that. At this point my work speaks for itself.

Just because you have a bunch of signs on your office wall does not mean you are likeable, resourceful, creative, or that you could even manage to make your way out of a paper bag.

It is usually people without PhDs that have a lot signs on their office walls. They always feel insecure around PhDs regardless of how much they are making .

Original BS holder here: what? I know lawyers, doctors, and PhDs and don't feel anything about their education level as compared to mine. I know this isn't a popular attitude in DC, but I'm actually much more concerned with the content of a person's character than anything else.

I have a Ph.D. and need it for the work I do. I haven't had any trouble finding employment, nor do I anticipate that in the future.

That said, I think this problem is an enormous one. There are too many lousy programs out there--many of them online and/or at for profit institutions--and their graduates are ill-trained. People in skilled trades (e.g., plumber, electrician) can absolutely make a good income and frankly, we need to make these more viable options as they are in many countries. Part of the problem is that the ubiquitous notion that everyone should earn a college degree, that you "need" one in order to be successful, etc., and a lot of people feel entitled to earning degrees. Hence, lousy degrees.

But all that being said, Ph.D.s on the whole do far better than people with high school educations. The academic job market is horrific, but there are other options out there.

So many people have degrees, that it's made competition tough. I remember a few years ago my office hired a secretary and we had so many people with masters and even someone with a J.D. applied.

For the peeps out there with PhDs and difficulties finding jobs, I'm curious: who paid for your education? did you think about your job prospects and how much it would cost before deciding to pursue the PhD? If you did, did economic circumstance change in the meantime? Or did you just assume that you would be among the lucky few who would not become "underemployed"?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It won't stop. The more accessible formal education is, the less valuable it is on the market. Supply and demand.

And people can't make a good living with working class/ blue collar jobs. What are we going to do, America?

Really? Ask your plumber what he makes. Now ask your electrician.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The PhD has become the next masters in a lot of hard sciences like chemistry and biology.

+1000
Actually a PhD is worse in these fields since it puts people in the overqualified category.


THIS IS ME, RIGHT NOW.

I was recently told I am "woefully over-qualified" for a job that would've been an excellent fit.

Sort of. It's a catch 22--super hard to get a job right out of a PhD (way harder than bachelors or masters), but if you want to progress in your career, eventually you need one. I was talking to someone in business development from a large biotech company, and they said that even though it technically doesn't require a PhD, everyone on their business development team has one. At some point to have credibility in management you need a PhD. Same for a lot of other careers like editorial jobs, the more technical areas of patent law, and some policy jobs. So frustrating. It's much easier to get a job with a bachelors/masters, but then you are stuck there.

You are freaking me out with this statement.
-a lowly BS holder

Both DH and I make over 200k with our lowly bachelors degrees. For my last two jobs I don't think anyone even cared if I had that. At this point my work speaks for itself.

Just because you have a bunch of signs on your office wall does not mean you are likeable, resourceful, creative, or that you could even manage to make your way out of a paper bag.

It is usually people without PhDs that have a lot signs on their office walls. They always feel insecure around PhDs regardless of how much they are making .

PhD here with multiple awards, both corporate and from organizations.....my walls in the office show 1) pics of my kid, 2) a framed picture of me with a baseball player (autographed), and other fun stuff. My degrees and awards are in a box in my basement.

If someone is coming into my office, they know who I am and what I can do for them. I don't need a brag wall to advertise.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The PhD has become the next masters in a lot of hard sciences like chemistry and biology.

+1000
Actually a PhD is worse in these fields since it puts people in the overqualified category.


THIS IS ME, RIGHT NOW.

I was recently told I am "woefully over-qualified" for a job that would've been an excellent fit.

Sort of. It's a catch 22--super hard to get a job right out of a PhD (way harder than bachelors or masters), but if you want to progress in your career, eventually you need one. I was talking to someone in business development from a large biotech company, and they said that even though it technically doesn't require a PhD, everyone on their business development team has one. At some point to have credibility in management you need a PhD. Same for a lot of other careers like editorial jobs, the more technical areas of patent law, and some policy jobs. So frustrating. It's much easier to get a job with a bachelors/masters, but then you are stuck there.

You are freaking me out with this statement.
-a lowly BS holder

Both DH and I make over 200k with our lowly bachelors degrees. For my last two jobs I don't think anyone even cared if I had that. At this point my work speaks for itself.

Just because you have a bunch of signs on your office wall does not mean you are likeable, resourceful, creative, or that you could even manage to make your way out of a paper bag.

It is usually people without PhDs that have a lot signs on their office walls. They always feel insecure around PhDs regardless of how much they are making .

As someone with a PhD, I don't think formal education is necessarily the direct path to a well paid job any longer. It is actually the opposite, the lack of education is. Too many teenagers and college drop-out creating start-ups out their basements while the rest of us are left drowning in education debt.

Innovation is the path to a well paid job, formal education is the path to learning about what someone else innovated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The PhD has become the next masters in a lot of hard sciences like chemistry and biology.

+1000
Actually a PhD is worse in these fields since it puts people in the overqualified category.


THIS IS ME, RIGHT NOW.

I was recently told I am "woefully over-qualified" for a job that would've been an excellent fit.

Sort of. It's a catch 22--super hard to get a job right out of a PhD (way harder than bachelors or masters), but if you want to progress in your career, eventually you need one. I was talking to someone in business development from a large biotech company, and they said that even though it technically doesn't require a PhD, everyone on their business development team has one. At some point to have credibility in management you need a PhD. Same for a lot of other careers like editorial jobs, the more technical areas of patent law, and some policy jobs. So frustrating. It's much easier to get a job with a bachelors/masters, but then you are stuck there.

You are freaking me out with this statement.
-a lowly BS holder

Both DH and I make over 200k with our lowly bachelors degrees. For my last two jobs I don't think anyone even cared if I had that. At this point my work speaks for itself.

Just because you have a bunch of signs on your office wall does not mean you are likeable, resourceful, creative, or that you could even manage to make your way out of a paper bag.

As a woman with a doctorate, my job requires one. Anyone who works in education or training, especially those with bachelors amd mastets degrees, needs a doctorate. If you are training learners with medical degrees, etc., they will respect the terminal degree holder.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The PhD has become the next masters in a lot of hard sciences like chemistry and biology.

+1000
Actually a PhD is worse in these fields since it puts people in the overqualified category.


THIS IS ME, RIGHT NOW.

I was recently told I am "woefully over-qualified" for a job that would've been an excellent fit.

Sort of. It's a catch 22--super hard to get a job right out of a PhD (way harder than bachelors or masters), but if you want to progress in your career, eventually you need one. I was talking to someone in business development from a large biotech company, and they said that even though it technically doesn't require a PhD, everyone on their business development team has one. At some point to have credibility in management you need a PhD. Same for a lot of other careers like editorial jobs, the more technical areas of patent law, and some policy jobs. So frustrating. It's much easier to get a job with a bachelors/masters, but then you are stuck there.

You are freaking me out with this statement.
-a lowly BS holder

Anonymous wrote:It won't stop. The more accessible formal education is, the less valuable it is on the market. Supply and demand.

And people can't make a good living with working class/ blue collar jobs. What are we going to do, America?