Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So sorry that I got 19 verses 15 wrong if that's the case. It says in the budget document that title one schools can have a cap of less than 21 students depending on their FARM rate and there are definitely schools with way less than that. I was reading there are classes with even 14 students. How they got there, I don't know

I will explain how they got there.

A school has a cap of (say) 19 students in each 1st grade class.

So (let's say) the total number of 1st grade students for that school is 46 students.

The principal takes 46 students and spreads them out across 1st grade classes. 19 can go in classroom #1. 19 can go in classroom #2.

But that leaves 46 - (2 * 19) = 8 students without a classroom.

So the principal does not want 8 students in a class. (S)he alters the assignments so there are 15 students in classroom #1, 15 students in classroom #2, and 16 students in classroom #3. (15 + 15 +16 = 46)

Larla in classroom #1 moves out of the district in November, bringing the classroom #1 size to 15 - 1 = 14.

You do realize other schools have to have combination classes to make it work out, correct? Teachers in non-title one schools are allocated based on a total number of students in grades 1-6. They are not given another teacher just because the numbers don't work out well.

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps this was addressed earlier in the thread, but how does a child apply for farms? What is the process?

http://www.fcps.edu/fs/food/serve/free-reduced.shtml

Free and reduced price meal applications are mailed to all households each August. If you do not receive an application in the mail or if you experience an income or household size change, an application is available at your local school or contact Food and Nutrition Services at 703-813-4800 or 703-813-4844.

Free and reduced-price lunches are available to students unable to pay the full price of meals according to criteria based on household size and income. Applications are available in Arabic,Farsi, Korean, Spanish, Urdu, and Vietnamese.

Families who earn less than 130 percent of the poverty level are eligible for free meals and those with incomes between 130 and 185 percent of poverty level qualify for reduced price meals. Today, approximately 24 percent of the student enrollment qualify for free and reduced price meals. The prices for paid breakfast and lunch are determined by the School Board and the price of reduced price meals are established by the federal government.

Perhaps this was addressed earlier in the thread, but how does a child apply for farms? What is the process?

Anonymous wrote:I do not want income verification if that means that the kids in my classroom go hungry. For many of those kids, it's the only meal a day they get. If they require paperwork, parents who don't understand the system, don't speak English, maybe don't have a regular job that gives a W2 (Many of my kids' parents are house cleaners and day laborers. It's all under the table) won't be getting a decent meal.

I'm sure you can implement an income verification system that would avoid kids going hungry. You can have a box on the form saying you don't have the information but you certify that you meet the income requirements. You can have teachers/administrators using discretion to make sure kids are getting fed. I think the idea that we only have two options - no income verification and abuse vs. income verification and kids starving is a false one.

Newbie question - what does FARM stand for?

Free and reduced meals

READ: Way for people to be bigots while pretending they aren't.

Anonymous wrote:So sorry that I got 19 verses 15 wrong if that's the case. It says in the budget document that title one schools can have a cap of less than 21 students depending on their FARM rate and there are definitely schools with way less than that. I was reading there are classes with even 14 students. How they got there, I don't know

I will explain how they got there.

A school has a cap of (say) 19 students in each 1st grade class.

So (let's say) the total number of 1st grade students for that school is 46 students.

The principal takes 46 students and spreads them out across 1st grade classes. 19 can go in classroom #1. 19 can go in classroom #2.

But that leaves 46 - (2 * 19) = 8 students without a classroom.

So the principal does not want 8 students in a class. (S)he alters the assignments so there are 15 students in classroom #1, 15 students in classroom #2, and 16 students in classroom #3. (15 + 15 +16 = 46)

Larla in classroom #1 moves out of the district in November, bringing the classroom #1 size to 15 - 1 = 14.

I do not want income verification if that means that the kids in my classroom go hungry. For many of those kids, it's the only meal a day they get. If they require paperwork, parents who don't understand the system, don't speak English, maybe don't have a regular job that gives a W2 (Many of my kids' parents are house cleaners and day laborers. It's all under the table) won't be getting a decent meal.

I think the primary point about income verification is not so much whether we should or should be strict about it as a policy matter (although I see no reason not to require a minimal level of verification), but to point out that when someone is pointing to the FARMs percentages at a given school as a way to reference the level of poverty at that school, it is an overinflated number of the percentage of students at that school in poverty. How big the gap is between the percentage of students who claim to be eligible for FARMs and the percentage of students who actually are eligible for FARMs, I don't know, but I think we'd be kidding ourselves to think the difference is negligible.

Personally, I have looked at certain schools and the percentage of FARMs, then compared that to census numbers for median family income, and I have a hard time believing that some of these schools have as many students as they claim to have coming from families making as little as is required to be eligible for FARMs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An occasional, randomly selected audit is not the same as requiring some sort of income verification at the time an application is submitted. If, for example, parents had to submit a W-2, pay stub, or tax return with their initial application for FARMs, I suspect you would see the percentage of FARMs plummet in many schools. Moreover, it's also very easy to lie about the number of people in your household. As we all know, many immigrant families group together in a house (which is usually perfectly legal when they're related), but it would be very easy not to include the entire household income when applying for FARMs.

Why should we make it difficult for kids to get a free or reduced price meal? Besides limiting extra funding for schools (why do we want to do that?), what's the rationale to make it harder to provide food to children that might possibly be hungry?

It might be useful to discuss the different types of federal, state and local funding at issue; which sources of funds are used to subsidize meals; and whether spending those funds on meals for children whose parents have not verified they are, in fact, needy keep those funds from being used in a manner that would benefit more children.

These are interesting questions, but whether the funds come from federal, state, or local taxes, I don't see why it would change whether a verification process should be required. They are all paid by tax dollars. Money to title one schools comes from all three sources although certain parts of each program probably rely more heavily on one funding source.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An occasional, randomly selected audit is not the same as requiring some sort of income verification at the time an application is submitted. If, for example, parents had to submit a W-2, pay stub, or tax return with their initial application for FARMs, I suspect you would see the percentage of FARMs plummet in many schools. Moreover, it's also very easy to lie about the number of people in your household. As we all know, many immigrant families group together in a house (which is usually perfectly legal when they're related), but it would be very easy not to include the entire household income when applying for FARMs.

Why should we make it difficult for kids to get a free or reduced price meal? Besides limiting extra funding for schools (why do we want to do that?), what's the rationale to make it harder to provide food to children that might possibly be hungry?

It might be useful to discuss the different types of federal, state and local funding at issue; which sources of funds are used to subsidize meals; and whether spending those funds on meals for children whose parents have not verified they are, in fact, needy keep those funds from being used in a manner that would benefit more children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An occasional, randomly selected audit is not the same as requiring some sort of income verification at the time an application is submitted. If, for example, parents had to submit a W-2, pay stub, or tax return with their initial application for FARMs, I suspect you would see the percentage of FARMs plummet in many schools. Moreover, it's also very easy to lie about the number of people in your household. As we all know, many immigrant families group together in a house (which is usually perfectly legal when they're related), but it would be very easy not to include the entire household income when applying for FARMs.

Why should we make it difficult for kids to get a free or reduced price meal? Besides limiting extra funding for schools (why do we want to do that?), what's the rationale to make it harder to provide food to children that might possibly be hungry?

It costs money to feed these children and give them additional funding in their classrooms. Why wouldn't we want any verification? I don't think a one time verification application is terribly hard in order to receive up to 13 years of free meals every day school is open plus smaller class sizes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are correct that schools with lower FARMS rates offer a better education to all the kids in the school.

But those schools with low FARMs rates are not "Title 1" and don't get the benefits from that program including the smaller class size.

Is this smaller class size for Title One school a VA thing? I teach in a MD school with appr. 95% FARMS and there is no cap on class sizes. One 2nd grade class currently has 32 students.

In Fairfax, they cap the class sizes for title one schools. Some schools are as low as a cap of 15 students and many are under 21. Plus they give many of these classes an extra assistant, individual computers, and they basically run a PTA out of the schools with additional trained personnel. Many people think it's unfair when other schools have 34-36 student class sizes and the teachers can't handle the high class size. They agree that the class sizes should be smaller at title one schools, but think the discrepancy is too much.

How do you feel about 32 children in a 2nd grade class? Isn't that against MD state laws? I've read MD state laws and they do not allow this.

You have no idea what you're talking about. There are 43 Title 1 schools where the K-3 classes have a cap. Of the 43, one has a cap at 19 and one has a cap at 20 (Hybla Valley and Lynbrook respectively). All the other 41 schools have a cap of 21 or higher. There may be classrooms where there are 15 students. But there are NO schools where class sizes are capped at 15. Please stop posting things you don't know.

So sorry that I got 19 verses 15 wrong if that's the case. It says in the budget document that title one schools can have a cap of less than 21 students depending on their FARM rate and there are definitely schools with way less than that. I was reading there are classes with even 14 students. How they got there, I don't know, but clearly they do exist with assistants in those classrooms while other schools of the same grade have over 30 students.

No, you also got the "many under 21" wrong. Only 2 of the 139 elementary schools have a class cap at K-3 below 21. If there are assistants in the classroom, it's because there are special education inclusion students who have service hours that need to and can be met by a special education teacher OR special ed instructional assistant. There are no schools where assistants are just randomly placed in small classrooms simply because they are in a Title 1 school.

Anonymous wrote:An occasional, randomly selected audit is not the same as requiring some sort of income verification at the time an application is submitted. If, for example, parents had to submit a W-2, pay stub, or tax return with their initial application for FARMs, I suspect you would see the percentage of FARMs plummet in many schools. Moreover, it's also very easy to lie about the number of people in your household. As we all know, many immigrant families group together in a house (which is usually perfectly legal when they're related), but it would be very easy not to include the entire household income when applying for FARMs.

Why should we make it difficult for kids to get a free or reduced price meal? Besides limiting extra funding for schools (why do we want to do that?), what's the rationale to make it harder to provide food to children that might possibly be hungry?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are correct that schools with lower FARMS rates offer a better education to all the kids in the school.

But those schools with low FARMs rates are not "Title 1" and don't get the benefits from that program including the smaller class size.

Is this smaller class size for Title One school a VA thing? I teach in a MD school with appr. 95% FARMS and there is no cap on class sizes. One 2nd grade class currently has 32 students.

In Fairfax, they cap the class sizes for title one schools. Some schools are as low as a cap of 15 students and many are under 21. Plus they give many of these classes an extra assistant, individual computers, and they basically run a PTA out of the schools with additional trained personnel. Many people think it's unfair when other schools have 34-36 student class sizes and the teachers can't handle the high class size. They agree that the class sizes should be smaller at title one schools, but think the discrepancy is too much.

How do you feel about 32 children in a 2nd grade class? Isn't that against MD state laws? I've read MD state laws and they do not allow this.

You have no idea what you're talking about. There are 43 Title 1 schools where the K-3 classes have a cap. Of the 43, one has a cap at 19 and one has a cap at 20 (Hybla Valley and Lynbrook respectively). All the other 41 schools have a cap of 21 or higher. There may be classrooms where there are 15 students. But there are NO schools where class sizes are capped at 15. Please stop posting things you don't know.

So sorry that I got 19 verses 15 wrong if that's the case. It says in the budget document that title one schools can have a cap of less than 21 students depending on their FARM rate and there are definitely schools with way less than that. I was reading there are classes with even 14 students. How they got there, I don't know, but clearly they do exist with assistants in those classrooms while other schools of the same grade have over 30 students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are correct that schools with lower FARMS rates offer a better education to all the kids in the school.

But those schools with low FARMs rates are not "Title 1" and don't get the benefits from that program including the smaller class size.

Is this smaller class size for Title One school a VA thing? I teach in a MD school with appr. 95% FARMS and there is no cap on class sizes. One 2nd grade class currently has 32 students.

In Fairfax, they cap the class sizes for title one schools. Some schools are as low as a cap of 15 students and many are under 21. Plus they give many of these classes an extra assistant, individual computers, and they basically run a PTA out of the schools with additional trained personnel. Many people think it's unfair when other schools have 34-36 student class sizes and the teachers can't handle the high class size. They agree that the class sizes should be smaller at title one schools, but think the discrepancy is too much.

How do you feel about 32 children in a 2nd grade class? Isn't that against MD state laws? I've read MD state laws and they do not allow this.

You have no idea what you're talking about. There are 43 Title 1 schools where the K-3 classes have a cap. Of the 43, one has a cap at 19 and one has a cap at 20 (Hybla Valley and Lynbrook respectively). All the other 41 schools have a cap of 21 or higher. There may be classrooms where there are 15 students. But there are NO schools where class sizes are capped at 15. Please stop posting things you don't know.