Anonymous wrote:

Also, what is "state"? Us non-govt lawyers are not familiar with govt slang, lol.

Uh, the Department of State? You know, the cabinet agency?

SEC, FDIC, CFTC all pay more than regular fed atty jobs and generally are pleasant places to work. If you have any skill that could get you in, go for it!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some agencies don't post on USA jobs for attorney positions, so it is key to monitor those you are looking at closely and know where they post.

I hear this all the time and would love for someone to post an example. Personally I haven't seen one.

State and CIA. Interviewed at both places, never from a usajobs listing.

How did you find the positions? Is there a site where they post?

Also, what is "state"? Us non-govt lawyers are not familiar with govt slang, lol.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some agencies don't post on USA jobs for attorney positions, so it is key to monitor those you are looking at closely and know where they post.

I hear this all the time and would love for someone to post an example. Personally I haven't seen one.

State and CIA. Interviewed at both places, never from a usajobs listing.

Dept of Health and Human Services likewise does not post its attorney jobs on USA Jobs. Several DoD agencies do not post their attorney positions on USA Jobs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some agencies don't post on USA jobs for attorney positions, so it is key to monitor those you are looking at closely and know where they post.

I have never heard of this before. What are some of these agencies and how does one monitor their job openings if they do not post publicly?

+1 I am pretty sure they are required to post on USAJOBS if they are doing an open hiring process.

They are not. Excepted service attorney jobs are not required to be posted on USAjobs. For example, you will not find a corresponding USAjobs posting for all of these vacancies:
http://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/attorneys-vacancies

We've had this discussion before. Excepted Attorney positions are required to be posted on usa.jobs and there are a few exceptions that are suppose to be used only on a limited basis (i.e. time is of the essence). No one claiming that attorney jobs don't need to be on usa.jobs has ever provided a citation to support this assertion.

Could you post a citation to support your assertion that they are required to be posted? There isn't one. The requirement of public posting applies to competitive service jobs. 5 USC 3330 ("The Office of Personnel Management shall establish and keep current a comprehensive list of all announcements of vacant positions in the competitive service within each agency that are to be filled by appointment for more than one year and for which applications are being...") There is no corresponding requirement for excepted service Schedule A attorney jobs. It may be that most agencies use USAjobs, as it is the best way to reach a wide audience, but it is not required.

Not off the top of my head, but it has been posted on a similar thread in the past when this dispute arose, should be findable via search if one is so inclined. In addition, HR for my banking agency was quite clear that attorney positions were subject to the posting requirement. I've heard the same thing from attorney friends at other agencies. People grumble because of the time required to fill a position and the veteran preference requirement.

It is not findable via search because no such requirement exists. If you are the same person that suggested that nobody has ever provided a citation for the lack of posting requirement, I find it amusing that you base your conclusion on the existence of a requirement the fact that people "grumble." There is also a link provided up-post that proves that not all attorney vacancies are posted on USAjobs.

Nor does veterans preference apply to attorney jobs.

Yeah, I was going to make that point, but veterans preference is technically a "plus factor" for attorneys, whatever that means......

For DoD attorney positions, Veterans haves preference. DoD has a policy that if two equally qualified candidates apply, and one is a veteran, then the veteran has preference. I'm an agency attorney for a DoD activity. The hours are very 9-5. We don't tend to hire former BIGLAW, as they usually don't have any experience in our practice area. Also, tons of retiring JAGs usually apply and they have the preference.

OP I think you are looking for advice like - civil rights doj is more cushy than national courts or criminal frauds - or work for sec not HHS. It's very hard to give that advice because most people haven't worked at multiple agencies. Also your firm experience will factor into whether you are a good candidate. I work in a litigating section of main justice. My advice would be to:
1. Look for jobs that actually sound interesting to you.
2. Litigation jobs generally require more hours and travel but nowhere near what law firms do. The autonomy you have even when working a lot is priceless.
3. Main DOJ jobs vary in the amount of hours but you def want to do research on how much the sections travel.
4. Some AUSA jobs are pretty demanding but still not like the firm. They tend to pay less than main justice. But an ausa job that's not in a major city is pretty cushy.
5. Agency jobs (HHS, HUD etc) tend to be more 9-5.

Of course this is based on my experience and someone might chime in and say I don't know what I'm talking about. I guess my main point is don't apply for a job just because you think it is cushy because you probably won't get it and if you do you might be horribly bored. I don't know of any regular job (ie not White House counsels office or something like that) in the gov where you are going to work like you do at a law firm.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some agencies don't post on USA jobs for attorney positions, so it is key to monitor those you are looking at closely and know where they post.

I have never heard of this before. What are some of these agencies and how does one monitor their job openings if they do not post publicly?

+1 I am pretty sure they are required to post on USAJOBS if they are doing an open hiring process.

They are not. Excepted service attorney jobs are not required to be posted on USAjobs. For example, you will not find a corresponding USAjobs posting for all of these vacancies:
http://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/attorneys-vacancies

We've had this discussion before. Excepted Attorney positions are required to be posted on usa.jobs and there are a few exceptions that are suppose to be used only on a limited basis (i.e. time is of the essence). No one claiming that attorney jobs don't need to be on usa.jobs has ever provided a citation to support this assertion.

Could you post a citation to support your assertion that they are required to be posted? There isn't one. The requirement of public posting applies to competitive service jobs. 5 USC 3330 ("The Office of Personnel Management shall establish and keep current a comprehensive list of all announcements of vacant positions in the competitive service within each agency that are to be filled by appointment for more than one year and for which applications are being...") There is no corresponding requirement for excepted service Schedule A attorney jobs. It may be that most agencies use USAjobs, as it is the best way to reach a wide audience, but it is not required.

Not off the top of my head, but it has been posted on a similar thread in the past when this dispute arose, should be findable via search if one is so inclined. In addition, HR for my banking agency was quite clear that attorney positions were subject to the posting requirement. I've heard the same thing from attorney friends at other agencies. People grumble because of the time required to fill a position and the veteran preference requirement.

It is not findable via search because no such requirement exists. If you are the same person that suggested that nobody has ever provided a citation for the lack of posting requirement, I find it amusing that you base your conclusion on the existence of a requirement the fact that people "grumble." There is also a link provided up-post that proves that not all attorney vacancies are posted on USAjobs.

If you are referring to the DOJ postings referenced above, the DOJ website makes clear they cross post on USAjobs and their own website:

The Department of Justice (DOJ) leads the nation in ensuring the protection of all Americans while preserving their constitutional freedoms. As a Justice employee you'll be a member of a team where you can achieve your career goals and apply your skills and talents to our important mission.

DOJ agencies post job announcements directly to USAJobs.gov - the one-stop source for Federal jobs and employment opportunities sponsored by the U.S. Office of Personnel Management.

USAJobs.gov allows you to search for openings by location or keyword. You can also search for openings within a specific Department of Justice agency. Become a My USAJobs Member to post and create a resume, apply to Federal Government jobs, and receive automated job alerts.

Source: http://www.justice.gov/careers

They do not say that they post all jobs on USAjobs. And as a matter of fact there are attorney vacancies currently posted on the DOJ site that are NOT posted on USAjobs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some agencies don't post on USA jobs for attorney positions, so it is key to monitor those you are looking at closely and know where they post.

I have never heard of this before. What are some of these agencies and how does one monitor their job openings if they do not post publicly?

+1 I am pretty sure they are required to post on USAJOBS if they are doing an open hiring process.

They are not. Excepted service attorney jobs are not required to be posted on USAjobs. For example, you will not find a corresponding USAjobs posting for all of these vacancies:
http://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/attorneys-vacancies

We've had this discussion before. Excepted Attorney positions are required to be posted on usa.jobs and there are a few exceptions that are suppose to be used only on a limited basis (i.e. time is of the essence). No one claiming that attorney jobs don't need to be on usa.jobs has ever provided a citation to support this assertion.

Could you post a citation to support your assertion that they are required to be posted? There isn't one. The requirement of public posting applies to competitive service jobs. 5 USC 3330 ("The Office of Personnel Management shall establish and keep current a comprehensive list of all announcements of vacant positions in the competitive service within each agency that are to be filled by appointment for more than one year and for which applications are being...") There is no corresponding requirement for excepted service Schedule A attorney jobs. It may be that most agencies use USAjobs, as it is the best way to reach a wide audience, but it is not required.

Not off the top of my head, but it has been posted on a similar thread in the past when this dispute arose, should be findable via search if one is so inclined. In addition, HR for my banking agency was quite clear that attorney positions were subject to the posting requirement. I've heard the same thing from attorney friends at other agencies. People grumble because of the time required to fill a position and the veteran preference requirement.

It is not findable via search because no such requirement exists. If you are the same person that suggested that nobody has ever provided a citation for the lack of posting requirement, I find it amusing that you base your conclusion on the existence of a requirement the fact that people "grumble." There is also a link provided up-post that proves that not all attorney vacancies are posted on USAjobs.

If you are referring to the DOJ postings referenced above, the DOJ website makes clear they cross post on USAjobs and their own website:

The Department of Justice (DOJ) leads the nation in ensuring the protection of all Americans while preserving their constitutional freedoms. As a Justice employee you'll be a member of a team where you can achieve your career goals and apply your skills and talents to our important mission.

DOJ agencies post job announcements directly to USAJobs.gov - the one-stop source for Federal jobs and employment opportunities sponsored by the U.S. Office of Personnel Management.

USAJobs.gov allows you to search for openings by location or keyword. You can also search for openings within a specific Department of Justice agency. Become a My USAJobs Member to post and create a resume, apply to Federal Government jobs, and receive automated job alerts.

Source: http://www.justice.gov/careers

A couple of places to look for good federal jobs (not attorney specific):

http://bestplacestowork.org/BPTW/index.php

http://www.fedview.opm.gov/2014/

That said, I work in the lowest of the low on these rankings and I love my federal attorney job, so it depends. It's hard to get really granular information on which offices have good morale - and I've found it can change in an instant depending on management. Talk to people - word of mouth is one way to go.

If you are looking on USA Jobs, be sure to search for "counsel" in addition to "attorney" positions. "Counsel" positions are typically looking for JDs to be in parts of the agency other than the general counsel's office.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some agencies don't post on USA jobs for attorney positions, so it is key to monitor those you are looking at closely and know where they post.

I have never heard of this before. What are some of these agencies and how does one monitor their job openings if they do not post publicly?

+1 I am pretty sure they are required to post on USAJOBS if they are doing an open hiring process.

They are not. Excepted service attorney jobs are not required to be posted on USAjobs. For example, you will not find a corresponding USAjobs posting for all of these vacancies:
http://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/attorneys-vacancies

We've had this discussion before. Excepted Attorney positions are required to be posted on usa.jobs and there are a few exceptions that are suppose to be used only on a limited basis (i.e. time is of the essence). No one claiming that attorney jobs don't need to be on usa.jobs has ever provided a citation to support this assertion.

Could you post a citation to support your assertion that they are required to be posted? There isn't one. The requirement of public posting applies to competitive service jobs. 5 USC 3330 ("The Office of Personnel Management shall establish and keep current a comprehensive list of all announcements of vacant positions in the competitive service within each agency that are to be filled by appointment for more than one year and for which applications are being...") There is no corresponding requirement for excepted service Schedule A attorney jobs. It may be that most agencies use USAjobs, as it is the best way to reach a wide audience, but it is not required.

Not off the top of my head, but it has been posted on a similar thread in the past when this dispute arose, should be findable via search if one is so inclined. In addition, HR for my banking agency was quite clear that attorney positions were subject to the posting requirement. I've heard the same thing from attorney friends at other agencies. People grumble because of the time required to fill a position and the veteran preference requirement.

It is not findable via search because no such requirement exists. If you are the same person that suggested that nobody has ever provided a citation for the lack of posting requirement, I find it amusing that you base your conclusion on the existence of a requirement the fact that people "grumble." There is also a link provided up-post that proves that not all attorney vacancies are posted on USAjobs.

Yes, it is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some agencies don't post on USA jobs for attorney positions, so it is key to monitor those you are looking at closely and know where they post.

I have never heard of this before. What are some of these agencies and how does one monitor their job openings if they do not post publicly?

+1 I am pretty sure they are required to post on USAJOBS if they are doing an open hiring process.

They are not. Excepted service attorney jobs are not required to be posted on USAjobs. For example, you will not find a corresponding USAjobs posting for all of these vacancies:
http://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/attorneys-vacancies

We've had this discussion before. Excepted Attorney positions are required to be posted on usa.jobs and there are a few exceptions that are suppose to be used only on a limited basis (i.e. time is of the essence). No one claiming that attorney jobs don't need to be on usa.jobs has ever provided a citation to support this assertion.

Could you post a citation to support your assertion that they are required to be posted? There isn't one. The requirement of public posting applies to competitive service jobs. 5 USC 3330 ("The Office of Personnel Management shall establish and keep current a comprehensive list of all announcements of vacant positions in the competitive service within each agency that are to be filled by appointment for more than one year and for which applications are being...") There is no corresponding requirement for excepted service Schedule A attorney jobs. It may be that most agencies use USAjobs, as it is the best way to reach a wide audience, but it is not required.

Not off the top of my head, but it has been posted on a similar thread in the past when this dispute arose, should be findable via search if one is so inclined. In addition, HR for my banking agency was quite clear that attorney positions were subject to the posting requirement. I've heard the same thing from attorney friends at other agencies. People grumble because of the time required to fill a position and the veteran preference requirement.

It is not findable via search because no such requirement exists. If you are the same person that suggested that nobody has ever provided a citation for the lack of posting requirement, I find it amusing that you base your conclusion on the existence of a requirement the fact that people "grumble." There is also a link provided up-post that proves that not all attorney vacancies are posted on USAjobs.

Nor does veterans preference apply to attorney jobs.

Yeah, I was going to make that point, but veterans preference is technically a "plus factor" for attorneys, whatever that means......

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some agencies don't post on USA jobs for attorney positions, so it is key to monitor those you are looking at closely and know where they post.

I have never heard of this before. What are some of these agencies and how does one monitor their job openings if they do not post publicly?

+1 I am pretty sure they are required to post on USAJOBS if they are doing an open hiring process.

They are not. Excepted service attorney jobs are not required to be posted on USAjobs. For example, you will not find a corresponding USAjobs posting for all of these vacancies:
http://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/attorneys-vacancies

We've had this discussion before. Excepted Attorney positions are required to be posted on usa.jobs and there are a few exceptions that are suppose to be used only on a limited basis (i.e. time is of the essence). No one claiming that attorney jobs don't need to be on usa.jobs has ever provided a citation to support this assertion.

Could you post a citation to support your assertion that they are required to be posted? There isn't one. The requirement of public posting applies to competitive service jobs. 5 USC 3330 ("The Office of Personnel Management shall establish and keep current a comprehensive list of all announcements of vacant positions in the competitive service within each agency that are to be filled by appointment for more than one year and for which applications are being...") There is no corresponding requirement for excepted service Schedule A attorney jobs. It may be that most agencies use USAjobs, as it is the best way to reach a wide audience, but it is not required.

Not off the top of my head, but it has been posted on a similar thread in the past when this dispute arose, should be findable via search if one is so inclined. In addition, HR for my banking agency was quite clear that attorney positions were subject to the posting requirement. I've heard the same thing from attorney friends at other agencies. People grumble because of the time required to fill a position and the veteran preference requirement.

It is not findable via search because no such requirement exists. If you are the same person that suggested that nobody has ever provided a citation for the lack of posting requirement, I find it amusing that you base your conclusion on the existence of a requirement the fact that people "grumble." There is also a link provided up-post that proves that not all attorney vacancies are posted on USAjobs.

Nor does veterans preference apply to attorney jobs.

Again, you are wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some agencies don't post on USA jobs for attorney positions, so it is key to monitor those you are looking at closely and know where they post.

I have never heard of this before. What are some of these agencies and how does one monitor their job openings if they do not post publicly?

+1 I am pretty sure they are required to post on USAJOBS if they are doing an open hiring process.

They are not. Excepted service attorney jobs are not required to be posted on USAjobs. For example, you will not find a corresponding USAjobs posting for all of these vacancies:
http://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/attorneys-vacancies

We've had this discussion before. Excepted Attorney positions are required to be posted on usa.jobs and there are a few exceptions that are suppose to be used only on a limited basis (i.e. time is of the essence). No one claiming that attorney jobs don't need to be on usa.jobs has ever provided a citation to support this assertion.

Could you post a citation to support your assertion that they are required to be posted? There isn't one. The requirement of public posting applies to competitive service jobs. 5 USC 3330 ("The Office of Personnel Management shall establish and keep current a comprehensive list of all announcements of vacant positions in the competitive service within each agency that are to be filled by appointment for more than one year and for which applications are being...") There is no corresponding requirement for excepted service Schedule A attorney jobs. It may be that most agencies use USAjobs, as it is the best way to reach a wide audience, but it is not required.

Not off the top of my head, but it has been posted on a similar thread in the past when this dispute arose, should be findable via search if one is so inclined. In addition, HR for my banking agency was quite clear that attorney positions were subject to the posting requirement. I've heard the same thing from attorney friends at other agencies. People grumble because of the time required to fill a position and the veteran preference requirement.

It is not findable via search because no such requirement exists. If you are the same person that suggested that nobody has ever provided a citation for the lack of posting requirement, I find it amusing that you base your conclusion on the existence of a requirement the fact that people "grumble." There is also a link provided up-post that proves that not all attorney vacancies are posted on USAjobs.

Nor does veterans preference apply to attorney jobs.

lol you all should be grateful. That way you aren't getting AA degrees applying for lawyer jobs.