Anonymous
03/10/2015 10:25
Subject: Do you really want your HS teen to get a D1 "full ride"?
Over recruiting is a major issue. It is the reasons schools like Alabama are always at the top. There are many schools that don't do this, but parents and high school coaches have to research this carefully.
Same with the grant in aid packages, as suggested by Coach above. Some schools are now offering 4 year packages. The Big 10 (14?) is considering offering full ride, even if you leave school and come back a decade later to finish, as well as the 4 year, so difference schools and conferences have different offerings.
I would NEVER go to an SEC school, except for maybe Vanderbilt.
Same with the grant in aid packages, as suggested by Coach above. Some schools are now offering 4 year packages. The Big 10 (14?) is considering offering full ride, even if you leave school and come back a decade later to finish, as well as the 4 year, so difference schools and conferences have different offerings.
I would NEVER go to an SEC school, except for maybe Vanderbilt.
Anonymous
03/10/2015 09:31
Subject: Re:Do you really want your HS teen to get a D1 "full ride"?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Even with all that though, those athletes are an injury away from getting cut and there goes college. I hope for their sakes the movement to guarantee scholarships for 4 years happens.
Nope. Where do you people get your information? They can't cut you forgetting injured. And if you have a long-term injury, they red shirt you and still pay your tuition. The school makes a commitment to you when you sign for them.
You actually are the one who is slightly mis-informed. Technically they can under certain circumstances if the grant in aid package is year to year. Most do not becuase it would create a negative perception in PR and recruiting and some individual schools have a policy forbidding it. Now that schools are going to the 4 year package, that may change. Most schools do not cut you outright but some coaches encourage you to transfer elsewhere by saying that you will never play, not in their plans, etc. because they know most kids want to play. Whether you play or not, your scholarship would count against the limit, so there is incentive to encorage non-contributors to leave. For career-ending injuries, most schools get around it by having a separate scholarship pool for athletes who are no longer playing - it is considered non-athletic money so it does not count against the scholarship limit.
Signed,
former D1 assistant coach
You're obviously more informed than me, just a fan. But another dirty secret is the practice of "over recruiting" where schools offer more scholarships than they have available. For example, football has 85 scholarships available- roughly 20 per year. A team may offer 22 scholarships in anticipation of a few kids graduating, not making grades, or leaving the program in other ways. If all 22 kids sign their letter of intent and only 20 kids leave, 2 kids are committed to that school but won't have a scholarship available. So they can accept preferred walk on status (grey shirt) or go to another school. However, the kid is committed by their LOI and by the time they find out the scholarship isn't available, there may be few scholarships at top programs left.
SEC schools are notorious for this practice- to my knowledge only Georgia has stated they won't over recruit. The Big 10 has forbidden it as a practice.
Plus if kids are recruited to a school and the coach leaves (or is fired) the athlete-students cannot transfer without losing a year of eligibility.
It is a one-way binding contract that often is renewed on an annual basis.
Anonymous
03/10/2015 09:06
Subject: Re:Do you really want your HS teen to get a D1 "full ride"?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Even with all that though, those athletes are an injury away from getting cut and there goes college. I hope for their sakes the movement to guarantee scholarships for 4 years happens.
Nope. Where do you people get your information? They can't cut you forgetting injured. And if you have a long-term injury, they red shirt you and still pay your tuition. The school makes a commitment to you when you sign for them.
You actually are the one who is slightly mis-informed. Technically they can under certain circumstances if the grant in aid package is year to year. Most do not becuase it would create a negative perception in PR and recruiting and some individual schools have a policy forbidding it. Now that schools are going to the 4 year package, that may change. Most schools do not cut you outright but some coaches encourage you to transfer elsewhere by saying that you will never play, not in their plans, etc. because they know most kids want to play. Whether you play or not, your scholarship would count against the limit, so there is incentive to encorage non-contributors to leave. For career-ending injuries, most schools get around it by having a separate scholarship pool for athletes who are no longer playing - it is considered non-athletic money so it does not count against the scholarship limit.
Signed,
former D1 assistant coach
Anonymous
03/09/2015 21:26
Subject: Re:Do you really want your HS teen to get a D1 "full ride"?
OP here. I'm glad that some people found the information valuable. And to the poster who talked about how it was a healthy use of her body, I agree. But, depends on the sport. I don't think FB is necessarily good for the body or the brain, doubly so when you factor in steroid usage.
I've only mentioned a few things, but in big one sports there is also steering of majors into easier categories to up the grade point , AD secretaries " helping to type papers" ( offered as typing assistance, but they actually write them for the athletes on some teams) on and on, but that is not what I really want to say.
Here is the thing parents need to know: its great to love a sport, to be really good at it and feel great doing it. Great way to stay healthy and you form some strong friendships, but here is what happens:
unless your kid is very , very lucky and continues to improve greatly in college ( not so lily if you have been at it since age 8, btw) D1 is a business. The coach who mentor your kid in HS or on club is replaced with an adult with a high paying $$$ contract depending on the teams performance ( meaning your kid's performance) , the ticket sales , revenue, alum donations depend on your kid's performance.
That is life , you'd say. And, OK , it is. But at same time the purpose of college is to spend time educating yourself and preparing for a career that you both are a good fit for and are good at . this two things take a lot of energy, self knowledge and effort. Something has to give and while the coach is in your kid's face every day as are his/her teammates, is his Engineering prof ? Is his Math prof or accounting prof or Anatomy Prof going to be saying " hey, you better give it everything you have this weekend" No, they don't. Guess who runs the show and guess who " get's the most" out of your kid's 4 years .
Just saying if you encourage them to accept , be prepared to make sure they are showing concrete steps toward having a job lined up and a career path after the lights go off .
I've only mentioned a few things, but in big one sports there is also steering of majors into easier categories to up the grade point , AD secretaries " helping to type papers" ( offered as typing assistance, but they actually write them for the athletes on some teams) on and on, but that is not what I really want to say.
Here is the thing parents need to know: its great to love a sport, to be really good at it and feel great doing it. Great way to stay healthy and you form some strong friendships, but here is what happens:
unless your kid is very , very lucky and continues to improve greatly in college ( not so lily if you have been at it since age 8, btw) D1 is a business. The coach who mentor your kid in HS or on club is replaced with an adult with a high paying $$$ contract depending on the teams performance ( meaning your kid's performance) , the ticket sales , revenue, alum donations depend on your kid's performance.
That is life , you'd say. And, OK , it is. But at same time the purpose of college is to spend time educating yourself and preparing for a career that you both are a good fit for and are good at . this two things take a lot of energy, self knowledge and effort. Something has to give and while the coach is in your kid's face every day as are his/her teammates, is his Engineering prof ? Is his Math prof or accounting prof or Anatomy Prof going to be saying " hey, you better give it everything you have this weekend" No, they don't. Guess who runs the show and guess who " get's the most" out of your kid's 4 years .
Just saying if you encourage them to accept , be prepared to make sure they are showing concrete steps toward having a job lined up and a career path after the lights go off .
Anonymous
03/09/2015 21:19
Subject: Re:Do you really want your HS teen to get a D1 "full ride"?
Anonymous wrote:Even with all that though, those athletes are an injury away from getting cut and there goes college. I hope for their sakes the movement to guarantee scholarships for 4 years happens.
Nope. Where do you people get your information? They can't cut you forgetting injured. And if you have a long-term injury, they red shirt you and still pay your tuition. The school makes a commitment to you when you sign for them.
Anonymous
03/09/2015 20:58
Subject: Do you really want your HS teen to get a D1 "full ride"?
Please explain a D1 or D3! Thank you
Anonymous
03/09/2015 20:39
Subject: Re:Do you really want your HS teen to get a D1 "full ride"?
Even with all that though, those athletes are an injury away from getting cut and there goes college. I hope for their sakes the movement to guarantee scholarships for 4 years happens.
Anonymous
03/09/2015 19:23
Subject: Do you really want your HS teen to get a D1 "full ride"?
I'd be all for chasing a D1 full ride if (i) my DC had the potential to go pro -- frankly parents and kids know it in HS if they are the ones who are killing themselves for one D1 offer vs. having 10 D1 schools courting them and if they are being invited to the top all American games around the country (esp in football or basketball) as a high schooler -- they are on the right trajectory for the pros in 4 yrs; or (ii) my DC was 100% committed to the idea of being a college coach. Frankly having played 4 yrs D1 makes it a LOT easier to open the doors to coaching even in a small school.
Absent that -- not truly worth it, at least not for a revenue generating sport where they expect 40+ hrs a week being spent on the sport rather than school.
Absent that -- not truly worth it, at least not for a revenue generating sport where they expect 40+ hrs a week being spent on the sport rather than school.
Anonymous
03/09/2015 16:52
Subject: Do you really want your HS teen to get a D1 "full ride"?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think all these people hating on athletics must have been benchwarmers in HS. Sports, especially as a woman, taught me invaluable lessons. I was relieved to play in college and have a full life without getting drunk at frat parties. I was excited to find a way to love my body by focusing on what it can do instead of how it looks. I learned the value of hard work and teamwork. I'm flabbergasted that people think the only value in sports is if you end up playing pro.
Not hating on sports -- but people need to realize that there is NO balance in D1 football or basketball anymore. The students are treated as investments, so it hinders their educations -- thus it may only be worth if you are good enough to go pro. I much prefer how it was back in the day -- I know plenty of older people who played college sports even football and basketball at D1 -- who still managed to keep their grades up enough to go to med school or law school after. Nowdays the universities want to take every single second of the students' time for 4-5 yrs and say "thanks very much," not caring whether that amount of sacrifice hurts the students' career prospects.
And they make all the money they can of the student's back selling tickets to the events, the student sees little of it because they're getting a 'free' ride. These days it's like slave labor. They have to allow time for the student to focus on his education.
Anonymous
03/09/2015 16:35
Subject: Do you really want your HS teen to get a D1 "full ride"?
If the donor is paying for the kids dinner, it is absolutely an infraction.
Anonymous
03/09/2015 16:02
Subject: Re:Do you really want your HS teen to get a D1 "full ride"?
So if some donor is in town who was on the O-line and wants to take all the O-line guys to dinner, you're pretty much going. Or if your unit "decides" that it needs to get together to study film for another 4 hrs after practice -- you're not going to be able to say "sorry guys -- economics midterm tomorrow, I can't" without seriously hurting your credibility with the team and the staff.
The spring and summer are better, and that's when the more "serious" guys make up academic ground -- even if it pisses off the coaches. From Jan-March all you have is winter conditioning a few hrs a day -- so you can pile on classwork and make sure your GPA stays high. From April to May/June is spring ball -- again some take if very seriously but others just treat it as a few hr a day obligation while keeping the GPA really high. Then training camp from June-August is terrible again -- practices for about 6-7 hrs/day plus they are required to take 1-2 summer classes to lighten the load for the fall. It's manageable but for any of those majors like finance -- an internship just isn't an option (though some of the more serious students have done it but getting a donor who is in love with the football program to set up an "internship" that allows 10-20 hrs/wk done remotely from school -- still not the same but at least there's something on the resume).
This is actually an NCAA infraction, if true.
My understanding is that these extra obligations are pretty "flexible" and not at all "obligatory," but frankly you're dealing with kids who are 18-22 yrs old most of whom want to keep their coaches as happy as possible because they feel like anything they do that goes against what the coaches want will jeopardize their playing time. So if it's presented as -- Joe Schome is in town and would LOVE to meet you guys tonight and it would be great for you to hear about his winning season 20 yrs ago and his NFL days -- there are a certain number of players who will feel like they MUST attend even if the time could be better spent on school or just relaxing.
I have a relative who plays football for Nebraska. The first bolded part is absolutely true; it happens. There's some sleight-of-hand thing they do to conform to NCAA rules on gifts, ensuring that the wrong person isn't "gifting" dinners to current team members (or cars, or vacation condos, etc). That said, as the relative of this young man, I haven't probed deeply in what that shenanigan is, exactly. I just know that he has LOTS of dog-and-pony-show obligations involving appearances with donors, former players and things like children's hospital galas, Fun Runs for Cancer, that sort of thing.
Anonymous
03/09/2015 15:49
Subject: Do you really want your HS teen to get a D1 "full ride"?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This thread should be required reading for all the parents of 9 yr olds out there standing on the sidelines salivating at the idea of a full ride. Sure it may be free if their kid is the 1% that gets one, but the kid will have to earn every damn dime of it for 4 yrs; sometimes the parents (and kids) don't get it and don't want to accept it.
I know a few current Penn State (Big 10) football players and the schedule during the season (late August to yr end) leaves minimal time and attention for school. They get 1 day a week "off" from football obligations, and that's the day that the more academic guys pile on as many classes as possible. Otherwise the schedule is -- practice/workouts from 6-8:30 am, school from 9-3 pm, and football from 3 pm until 7-8 pm. While it doesn't seem bad to dedicate 6 hrs/day 4 days a week to school (Fridays are pretty much terrible in the fall as it's often a travel day or filled will all kinds of other football hype for a home game weekend), that's only 24 hrs a week -- of which probably 12-15 are spent in class. Having only 9-12 hours free during the week means the majors that are chosen necessarily cannot include lab sciences or pre med or engineering as there just isn't adequate time. I've heard that even finance is tough due to too many problem sets and things like pure liberal arts (English etc.) can be hard as you need dedicated time for research papers. So then you have a ton of guys getting a "free ride" that consists of "trade" oriented majors like Tourism or Criminal Justice or Phys Ed -- bc the classwork is pretty common sense and the homework can be done quick.
Sure they have time after 8 pm to study, but in such a big name program -- they say there's always some other commitment after practice that you can't bail on -- lest you show the coaches you don't care. So if some donor is in town who was on the O-line and wants to take all the O-line guys to dinner, you're pretty much going. Or if your unit "decides" that it needs to get together to study film for another 4 hrs after practice -- you're not going to be able to say "sorry guys -- economics midterm tomorrow, I can't" without seriously hurting your credibility with the team and the staff.
The spring and summer are better, and that's when the more "serious" guys make up academic ground -- even if it pisses off the coaches. From Jan-March all you have is winter conditioning a few hrs a day -- so you can pile on classwork and make sure your GPA stays high. From April to May/June is spring ball -- again some take if very seriously but others just treat it as a few hr a day obligation while keeping the GPA really high. Then training camp from June-August is terrible again -- practices for about 6-7 hrs/day plus they are required to take 1-2 summer classes to lighten the load for the fall. It's manageable but for any of those majors like finance -- an internship just isn't an option (though some of the more serious students have done it but getting a donor who is in love with the football program to set up an "internship" that allows 10-20 hrs/wk done remotely from school -- still not the same but at least there's something on the resume).
This is actually an NCAA infraction, if true.
My understanding is that these extra obligations are pretty "flexible" and not at all "obligatory," but frankly you're dealing with kids who are 18-22 yrs old most of whom want to keep their coaches as happy as possible because they feel like anything they do that goes against what the coaches want will jeopardize their playing time. So if it's presented as -- Joe Schome is in town and would LOVE to meet you guys tonight and it would be great for you to hear about his winning season 20 yrs ago and his NFL days -- there are a certain number of players who will feel like they MUST attend even if the time could be better spent on school or just relaxing.
Just speaking to the timing issue -- can't speak to whether donors are courting team members and whether that's an infraction; or whether it simply alums who come back -- who may or may not be donating but just want to re-live their glory days because they happen to be in town for a day or two.
Anonymous
03/09/2015 15:47
Subject: Do you really want your HS teen to get a D1 "full ride"?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This thread should be required reading for all the parents of 9 yr olds out there standing on the sidelines salivating at the idea of a full ride. Sure it may be free if their kid is the 1% that gets one, but the kid will have to earn every damn dime of it for 4 yrs; sometimes the parents (and kids) don't get it and don't want to accept it.
I know a few current Penn State (Big 10) football players and the schedule during the season (late August to yr end) leaves minimal time and attention for school. They get 1 day a week "off" from football obligations, and that's the day that the more academic guys pile on as many classes as possible. Otherwise the schedule is -- practice/workouts from 6-8:30 am, school from 9-3 pm, and football from 3 pm until 7-8 pm. While it doesn't seem bad to dedicate 6 hrs/day 4 days a week to school (Fridays are pretty much terrible in the fall as it's often a travel day or filled will all kinds of other football hype for a home game weekend), that's only 24 hrs a week -- of which probably 12-15 are spent in class. Having only 9-12 hours free during the week means the majors that are chosen necessarily cannot include lab sciences or pre med or engineering as there just isn't adequate time. I've heard that even finance is tough due to too many problem sets and things like pure liberal arts (English etc.) can be hard as you need dedicated time for research papers. So then you have a ton of guys getting a "free ride" that consists of "trade" oriented majors like Tourism or Criminal Justice or Phys Ed -- bc the classwork is pretty common sense and the homework can be done quick.
Sure they have time after 8 pm to study, but in such a big name program -- they say there's always some other commitment after practice that you can't bail on -- lest you show the coaches you don't care. So if some donor is in town who was on the O-line and wants to take all the O-line guys to dinner, you're pretty much going. Or if your unit "decides" that it needs to get together to study film for another 4 hrs after practice -- you're not going to be able to say "sorry guys -- economics midterm tomorrow, I can't" without seriously hurting your credibility with the team and the staff.
The spring and summer are better, and that's when the more "serious" guys make up academic ground -- even if it pisses off the coaches. From Jan-March all you have is winter conditioning a few hrs a day -- so you can pile on classwork and make sure your GPA stays high. From April to May/June is spring ball -- again some take if very seriously but others just treat it as a few hr a day obligation while keeping the GPA really high. Then training camp from June-August is terrible again -- practices for about 6-7 hrs/day plus they are required to take 1-2 summer classes to lighten the load for the fall. It's manageable but for any of those majors like finance -- an internship just isn't an option (though some of the more serious students have done it but getting a donor who is in love with the football program to set up an "internship" that allows 10-20 hrs/wk done remotely from school -- still not the same but at least there's something on the resume).
This is actually an NCAA infraction, if true.
My understanding is that these extra obligations are pretty "flexible" and not at all "obligatory," but frankly you're dealing with kids who are 18-22 yrs old most of whom want to keep their coaches as happy as possible because they feel like anything they do that goes against what the coaches want will jeopardize their playing time. So if it's presented as -- Joe Schome is in town and would LOVE to meet you guys tonight and it would be great for you to hear about his winning season 20 yrs ago and his NFL days -- there are a certain number of players who will feel like they MUST attend even if the time could be better spent on school or just relaxing.
Anonymous
03/09/2015 15:31
Subject: Do you really want your HS teen to get a D1 "full ride"?
Anonymous wrote:This thread should be required reading for all the parents of 9 yr olds out there standing on the sidelines salivating at the idea of a full ride. Sure it may be free if their kid is the 1% that gets one, but the kid will have to earn every damn dime of it for 4 yrs; sometimes the parents (and kids) don't get it and don't want to accept it.
I know a few current Penn State (Big 10) football players and the schedule during the season (late August to yr end) leaves minimal time and attention for school. They get 1 day a week "off" from football obligations, and that's the day that the more academic guys pile on as many classes as possible. Otherwise the schedule is -- practice/workouts from 6-8:30 am, school from 9-3 pm, and football from 3 pm until 7-8 pm. While it doesn't seem bad to dedicate 6 hrs/day 4 days a week to school (Fridays are pretty much terrible in the fall as it's often a travel day or filled will all kinds of other football hype for a home game weekend), that's only 24 hrs a week -- of which probably 12-15 are spent in class. Having only 9-12 hours free during the week means the majors that are chosen necessarily cannot include lab sciences or pre med or engineering as there just isn't adequate time. I've heard that even finance is tough due to too many problem sets and things like pure liberal arts (English etc.) can be hard as you need dedicated time for research papers. So then you have a ton of guys getting a "free ride" that consists of "trade" oriented majors like Tourism or Criminal Justice or Phys Ed -- bc the classwork is pretty common sense and the homework can be done quick.
Sure they have time after 8 pm to study, but in such a big name program -- they say there's always some other commitment after practice that you can't bail on -- lest you show the coaches you don't care. So if some donor is in town who was on the O-line and wants to take all the O-line guys to dinner, you're pretty much going. Or if your unit "decides" that it needs to get together to study film for another 4 hrs after practice -- you're not going to be able to say "sorry guys -- economics midterm tomorrow, I can't" without seriously hurting your credibility with the team and the staff.
The spring and summer are better, and that's when the more "serious" guys make up academic ground -- even if it pisses off the coaches. From Jan-March all you have is winter conditioning a few hrs a day -- so you can pile on classwork and make sure your GPA stays high. From April to May/June is spring ball -- again some take if very seriously but others just treat it as a few hr a day obligation while keeping the GPA really high. Then training camp from June-August is terrible again -- practices for about 6-7 hrs/day plus they are required to take 1-2 summer classes to lighten the load for the fall. It's manageable but for any of those majors like finance -- an internship just isn't an option (though some of the more serious students have done it but getting a donor who is in love with the football program to set up an "internship" that allows 10-20 hrs/wk done remotely from school -- still not the same but at least there's something on the resume).
This is actually an NCAA infraction, if true.
Anonymous
03/09/2015 15:05
Subject: Do you really want your HS teen to get a D1 "full ride"?
Anonymous wrote:So does this mean the D1 soccer experience is different/better?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think all these people hating on athletics must have been benchwarmers in HS. Sports, especially as a woman, taught me invaluable lessons. I was relieved to play in college and have a full life without getting drunk at frat parties. I was excited to find a way to love my body by focusing on what it can do instead of how it looks. I learned the value of hard work and teamwork. I'm flabbergasted that people think the only value in sports is if you end up playing pro.
Not hating on sports -- but people need to realize that there is NO balance in D1 football or basketball anymore. The students are treated as investments, so it hinders their educations -- thus it may only be worth if you are good enough to go pro. I much prefer how it was back in the day -- I know plenty of older people who played college sports even football and basketball at D1 -- who still managed to keep their grades up enough to go to med school or law school after. Nowdays the universities want to take every single second of the students' time for 4-5 yrs and say "thanks very much," not caring whether that amount of sacrifice hurts the students' career prospects.
Check out the D1 Schools--not always the best academically (barring a handful in soccer).
Chances are your kid could get into a better school if he's smart.
My kid ended up taking an academic scholarship at a much better academic-wise/reputation school then some of the D-1 schools he was offered partial scholarships to.