Op here : thank you, yes. Any change like that is going to be a confrontation. And honestly I can't do it; the confrontation. I'm more prepared to cut contact than confront. Especially as this is gut thing not overt criminal thing. Just inappropriate and gut stuff.

op, is your mom around on these visits? or just dad?

Anonymous wrote:Tough to advise you OP as this is tricky stuff and we don't know you (or anyone else involved.) Here are my two cents:

- I absolutely believe in gut instincts - both yours from all those years ago, and yours now regarding your daughter.
- your reactions to your father, and your daughter, will naturally be colored by your feelings of the prior event. So it is practically impossible for you to put your daughter's comments in any other context than a pretty loaded emotional one. That may or may not be a fair context for her statements.
- your daughter is 5. I absolutely believe in a 5 yr old being able to reject attention from anyone who makes her uncomfortable, in being able to say no, etc... And I fully support my daughter in those choices - even if/when they don't always seem rational to me. That being said - 5 year olds are still 5, and their motivations and reasons for doing or saying things are often VERY different than what we might assume or project on to them.
- no abuse actually happened to you. I don't mean to diminish your feelings - I totally support trusting your instincts. But nothing constituting abuse actually happened.
- you can protect/shield your daughter from being alone or in jeapardy without fulling cutting off contact - can't you?


As I said, it's pretty tough to fairly offer advice here. But just on what you're able to share it feels like there ought to be a middle ground where you don't have to totally cut off all contact in order to keep your daughter safe. You may need to work things out far more directly with your father however, than you would prefer to do. It will take real strength - whatever you decide. I wish you luck.

I think what OP is struggling with is whether she can set those boundaries without having the kind of confrontation she dreads. It sounds like OP's parents aren't local, so they travel to her and stay in her home when they visit. Anything that upsets that, such as asking her parents to stay in a hotel, will be a signal that something's wrong and will lead to the confrontation, but allowing the parents to continue in their current visits would put OP's daughter at risk if her father is an abuser.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can anyone say cut off contact based on what was initially written? There's not enough to go on.

It seemed weird to the OP at the time, but she let it go and it's been a moot point for years. Even professional therapists were not concerned about the story.

Now, because her 5YO said this, she wants to cut off contact? The 5YO could be unhappy with this grandparent over something else, it could also be nothing the grandparent's done. It could be unrelated to the grandparent. It's impossible to say.

+1

Abusive dads don't let an elbow stop them.

HOW FREAKING DUMB AND NAIVE AND IGNORANT IS THIS ANALYSIS?
Are you freaking real? Seriously? This is how people end up abused and put in harm's way. What an idiot.

Huh? I read that as "people that really want to abuse their kids will keep trying," which was my experience as an abused kid. How did you read it? Or maybe I just need another cup of coffee.

Understand this -- an unsuccesful attempt at abuse is still an attempt at abuse -- get it?
An abuser is an abuser is an abuser...

Yeah, BTDT. But even OP isn't clear if this was an attempt at abuse.

Op here : my gut in this situation is all I've got.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can anyone say cut off contact based on what was initially written? There's not enough to go on.

It seemed weird to the OP at the time, but she let it go and it's been a moot point for years. Even professional therapists were not concerned about the story.

Now, because her 5YO said this, she wants to cut off contact? The 5YO could be unhappy with this grandparent over something else, it could also be nothing the grandparent's done. It could be unrelated to the grandparent. It's impossible to say.

+1

Abusive dads don't let an elbow stop them.

HOW FREAKING DUMB AND NAIVE AND IGNORANT IS THIS ANALYSIS?
Are you freaking real? Seriously? This is how people end up abused and put in harm's way. What an idiot.

Huh? I read that as "people that really want to abuse their kids will keep trying," which was my experience as an abused kid. How did you read it? Or maybe I just need another cup of coffee.

Understand this -- an unsuccesful attempt at abuse is still an attempt at abuse -- get it?
An abuser is an abuser is an abuser...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can anyone say cut off contact based on what was initially written? There's not enough to go on.

It seemed weird to the OP at the time, but she let it go and it's been a moot point for years. Even professional therapists were not concerned about the story.

Now, because her 5YO said this, she wants to cut off contact? The 5YO could be unhappy with this grandparent over something else, it could also be nothing the grandparent's done. It could be unrelated to the grandparent. It's impossible to say.

+1

Abusive dads don't let an elbow stop them.

HOW FREAKING DUMB AND NAIVE AND IGNORANT IS THIS ANALYSIS?
Are you freaking real? Seriously? This is how people end up abused and put in harm's way. What an idiot.

Huh? I read that as "people that really want to abuse their kids will keep trying," which was my experience as an abused kid. How did you read it? Or maybe I just need another cup of coffee.

People who really want to abuse kids will keep trying, but not necessarily with the same kid. They want a compliant child who won't make a fuss for them.

OP, why are your only two options "cutting all ties" or "doing nothing?"

You owe it to your daughter to protect her. Acting on your gut instinct is a good step, but don't you want to know if your dad is safe to be around? I'd cut off ties with my dad if I needed to do it to keep my kid safe, but I'd want to know--beyond just a feeling--that he's an unsafe person to be around first.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can anyone say cut off contact based on what was initially written? There's not enough to go on.

It seemed weird to the OP at the time, but she let it go and it's been a moot point for years. Even professional therapists were not concerned about the story.

Now, because her 5YO said this, she wants to cut off contact? The 5YO could be unhappy with this grandparent over something else, it could also be nothing the grandparent's done. It could be unrelated to the grandparent. It's impossible to say.

+1

Abusive dads don't let an elbow stop them.

HOW FREAKING DUMB AND NAIVE AND IGNORANT IS THIS ANALYSIS?
Are you freaking real? Seriously? This is how people end up abused and put in harm's way. What an idiot.

Huh? I read that as "people that really want to abuse their kids will keep trying," which was my experience as an abused kid. How did you read it? Or maybe I just need another cup of coffee.

Tough to advise you OP as this is tricky stuff and we don't know you (or anyone else involved.) Here are my two cents:

- I absolutely believe in gut instincts - both yours from all those years ago, and yours now regarding your daughter.
- your reactions to your father, and your daughter, will naturally be colored by your feelings of the prior event. So it is practically impossible for you to put your daughter's comments in any other context than a pretty loaded emotional one. That may or may not be a fair context for her statements.
- your daughter is 5. I absolutely believe in a 5 yr old being able to reject attention from anyone who makes her uncomfortable, in being able to say no, etc... And I fully support my daughter in those choices - even if/when they don't always seem rational to me. That being said - 5 year olds are still 5, and their motivations and reasons for doing or saying things are often VERY different than what we might assume or project on to them.
- no abuse actually happened to you. I don't mean to diminish your feelings - I totally support trusting your instincts. But nothing constituting abuse actually happened.
- you can protect/shield your daughter from being alone or in jeapardy without fulling cutting off contact - can't you?


As I said, it's pretty tough to fairly offer advice here. But just on what you're able to share it feels like there ought to be a middle ground where you don't have to totally cut off all contact in order to keep your daughter safe. You may need to work things out far more directly with your father however, than you would prefer to do. It will take real strength - whatever you decide. I wish you luck.

OP, it sounds like you're really conflicted. Honestly, I recommend that you don't cut off all ties and break complete contact, but you never, ever leave your daughter alone with your dad. If you're not watching her when everyone is visiting, watch him. If he leaves the room (and she's not in your eyesight) follow him and see where he goes.

It's a lot of work, but something I think you have to do. Also, teach your daughter to not be alone with "grandpa." Tell her that you don't want her going anywhere with him and teach her to say "no" to him. If you feel you can't confront him, say, "mom, dad, it's something I strongly believe. In my gut I don't want her XYZ (sleeping over, going to the store with you, going for a walk...whatever)" If he has pedophilia tendencies, he'll get it and not push (especially since your elbow stopped him before, he may not be aggressive about it).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can anyone say cut off contact based on what was initially written? There's not enough to go on.

It seemed weird to the OP at the time, but she let it go and it's been a moot point for years. Even professional therapists were not concerned about the story.

Now, because her 5YO said this, she wants to cut off contact? The 5YO could be unhappy with this grandparent over something else, it could also be nothing the grandparent's done. It could be unrelated to the grandparent. It's impossible to say.

+1

Abusive dads don't let an elbow stop them.

HOW FREAKING DUMB AND NAIVE AND IGNORANT IS THIS ANALYSIS?
Are you freaking real? Seriously? This is how people end up abused and put in harm's way. What an idiot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can anyone say cut off contact based on what was initially written? There's not enough to go on.

It seemed weird to the OP at the time, but she let it go and it's been a moot point for years. Even professional therapists were not concerned about the story.

Now, because her 5YO said this, she wants to cut off contact? The 5YO could be unhappy with this grandparent over something else, it could also be nothing the grandparent's done. It could be unrelated to the grandparent. It's impossible to say.

This. Presumably the therapist is getting a clearer picture from op.

That's not exactly what OP said. OP said some didn't think it was anything, some said it was abuse. So clearly it's at least a borderline case.

Honestly, I find the responses here disheartening. Not from an "OMG, OP was uncomfortable so it must be abuse!!!" standpoint, but because OP's instincts once told her something was wrong with what her father did, and now her child's comments combined with her own gut feelings are raising red flags for her again. Such strong red flags that she's considering cutting off contact with her father over this. And yet people who weren't there and in no way witnessed or experienced what OP did are asserting that the father did nothing wrong and the OP should just suck it up. Those kinds of attitudes, ignoring instincts over what's "nice" are big part of what allows abuse to happen.

See, I don't get that she's too sure. I get she's worried and concerned, but I feel like there's a lot of ambivalence. I still think there's too little information here for a group of strangers to be able to give solid advice one way or another.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can anyone say cut off contact based on what was initially written? There's not enough to go on.

It seemed weird to the OP at the time, but she let it go and it's been a moot point for years. Even professional therapists were not concerned about the story.

Now, because her 5YO said this, she wants to cut off contact? The 5YO could be unhappy with this grandparent over something else, it could also be nothing the grandparent's done. It could be unrelated to the grandparent. It's impossible to say.

This. Presumably the therapist is getting a clearer picture from op.

That's not exactly what OP said. OP said some didn't think it was anything, some said it was abuse. So clearly it's at least a borderline case.

Honestly, I find the responses here disheartening. Not from an "OMG, OP was uncomfortable so it must be abuse!!!" standpoint, but because OP's instincts once told her something was wrong with what her father did, and now her child's comments combined with her own gut feelings are raising red flags for her again. Such strong red flags that she's considering cutting off contact with her father over this. And yet people who weren't there and in no way witnessed or experienced what OP did are asserting that the father did nothing wrong and the OP should just suck it up. Those kinds of attitudes, ignoring instincts over what's "nice" are big part of what allows abuse to happen.

AMEN!
I was about to post the same damn thing!!!
Some of these posters are delusional!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can anyone say cut off contact based on what was initially written? There's not enough to go on.

It seemed weird to the OP at the time, but she let it go and it's been a moot point for years. Even professional therapists were not concerned about the story.

Now, because her 5YO said this, she wants to cut off contact? The 5YO could be unhappy with this grandparent over something else, it could also be nothing the grandparent's done. It could be unrelated to the grandparent. It's impossible to say.

This. Presumably the therapist is getting a clearer picture from op.

That's not exactly what OP said. OP said some didn't think it was anything, some said it was abuse. So clearly it's at least a borderline case.

Honestly, I find the responses here disheartening. Not from an "OMG, OP was uncomfortable so it must be abuse!!!" standpoint, but because OP's instincts once told her something was wrong with what her father did, and now her child's comments combined with her own gut feelings are raising red flags for her again. Such strong red flags that she's considering cutting off contact with her father over this. And yet people who weren't there and in no way witnessed or experienced what OP did are asserting that the father did nothing wrong and the OP should just suck it up. Those kinds of attitudes, ignoring instincts over what's "nice" are big part of what allows abuse to happen.