Anonymous
Post 03/01/2015 13:52     Subject: Re:If you are anti - PARCC are you also anti SAT?

Not exactly - they are being developed by different groups and different state consortia. It's up to the states and always has been. That's why there's PARCC, Smarter Balanced and others, as opposed to all 50 states having to do PARCC.


Spin, spin, Spin. They were developed by most of the same people and, if you do not understand that you need to do some research.





Anonymous
Post 03/01/2015 13:49     Subject: Re:If you are anti - PARCC are you also anti SAT?
Anonymous wrote:
How can you tell from the tests that the problem is poor implementation?

And how will the test fix the problems?


You seem to be lacking some logic there. The purpose of the test isn't to fix the problem, it's to identify and monitor the problem. Getting your blood pressure and cholesterol checked doesn't magically make you healthy, it identifies whether you need to make lifestyle changes.



But how can you tell how the person got high blood pressure and how to prevent it in the future? Did it happen because the parents fed the kid french fries for years on end or is there a genetic predisposition to it? So should you blame the parents for "poor implementation" or not? Measuring the blood pressure is nice, but jumping to conclusions about how it got so high might not produce valid ways of dealing with it.


Again, why do you think that has to be up to the federal government to solve it too? The federal government took the step of identifying the problem and left it up to the states and school districts to figure out how to deal with it. Do you want the federal government to wipe your ass after you go to the bathroom also? How about school districts, local governments and states deal with it AS THEY SHOULD IN THE FIRST PLACE?
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2015 13:45     Subject: Re:If you are anti - PARCC are you also anti SAT?
Anonymous wrote:

The tests are required by the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001. The tests are not a Common Core issue, they are a No Child Left Behind Act issue.


Sorry. These PARCC tests that are taking weeks and requiring computers were developed by the same people who brought you Common Core.



Not exactly - they are being developed by different groups and different state consortia. It's up to the states and always has been. That's why there's PARCC, Smarter Balanced and others, as opposed to all 50 states having to do PARCC.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2015 13:33     Subject: Re:If you are anti - PARCC are you also anti SAT?

The tests are required by the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001. The tests are not a Common Core issue, they are a No Child Left Behind Act issue.


Sorry. These PARCC tests that are taking weeks and requiring computers were developed by the same people who brought you Common Core.

Anonymous
Post 03/01/2015 10:41     Subject: Re:If you are anti - PARCC are you also anti SAT?
How can you tell from the tests that the problem is poor implementation?

And how will the test fix the problems?


You seem to be lacking some logic there. The purpose of the test isn't to fix the problem, it's to identify and monitor the problem. Getting your blood pressure and cholesterol checked doesn't magically make you healthy, it identifies whether you need to make lifestyle changes.



But how can you tell how the person got high blood pressure and how to prevent it in the future? Did it happen because the parents fed the kid french fries for years on end or is there a genetic predisposition to it? So should you blame the parents for "poor implementation" or not? Measuring the blood pressure is nice, but jumping to conclusions about how it got so high might not produce valid ways of dealing with it.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2015 10:35     Subject: Re:If you are anti - PARCC are you also anti SAT?
Where standards are not being implemented well, that's the fault of the schools,



I hope you take into account the major truancy problems that some of these schools deal with. And that's just for starters.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2015 10:31     Subject: Re:If you are anti - PARCC are you also anti SAT?
Anonymous wrote:
Where standards are not being implemented well, that's the fault of the schools, and that's something that NEEDS TO BE IDENTIFIED. Poor implementation is just a symptom of far bigger problems in those schools and should not be swept under the carpet. Those schools obviously have far bigger problems to deal with and getting rid of testing damn sure isn't going to fix it.



How can you tell from the tests that the problem is poor implementation?

And how will the test fix the problems?


You seem to be lacking some logic there. The purpose of the test isn't to fix the problem, it's to identify and monitor the problem. Getting your blood pressure and cholesterol checked doesn't magically make you healthy, it identifies whether you need to make lifestyle changes.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2015 10:15     Subject: Re:If you are anti - PARCC are you also anti SAT?
Where standards are not being implemented well, that's the fault of the schools, and that's something that NEEDS TO BE IDENTIFIED. Poor implementation is just a symptom of far bigger problems in those schools and should not be swept under the carpet. Those schools obviously have far bigger problems to deal with and getting rid of testing damn sure isn't going to fix it.



How can you tell from the tests that the problem is poor implementation?

And how will the test fix the problems?
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2015 09:42     Subject: Re:If you are anti - PARCC are you also anti SAT?
Anonymous wrote:
[Post New]03/01/2015 00:17 Subject: Re:If you are anti - PARCC are you also anti SAT? [Up]
Anonymous



Anonymous wrote:
"Developmentally inappropriate" is a term that teachers are applying to standards that are so far out of reach for their students that the kids hit the frustration level. CC supporters do not have a clue.


Bullshit.

Again, the question is, for the 438th time, which standard, SPECIFICALLY, and how, SPECIFICALLY is it "so far out of reach?" What exactly are the criteria, and where is the data for saying so? Out of reach for how many kids? These are concepts and questions that any teacher should be able to understand.

Yet, nobody ever seems to be able to answer those questions, which makes the comment of "developmentally inappropriate" utterly meaningless and without merit.

Sorry, but no cigar.



The answers are slowly coming out. Did you read the Forbes article that was posted on the other thread?

Also, yes, let's give teachers time to help change these standards. There are some big reasons why they are not working out in the schools. And let's stop the testing RIGHT AWAY until we can refine the whole implementation process. Wouldn't you agree that it's not fair to test kids in so many schools where the standards are not being implemented well? The kids don't understand why they are failing. It's a mess.


Where standards are not being implemented well, that's the fault of the schools, and that's something that NEEDS TO BE IDENTIFIED. Poor implementation is just a symptom of far bigger problems in those schools and should not be swept under the carpet. Those schools obviously have far bigger problems to deal with and getting rid of testing damn sure isn't going to fix it.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2015 09:40     Subject: Re:If you are anti - PARCC are you also anti SAT?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The tests are required by the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001. The tests are not a Common Core issue, they are a No Child Left Behind Act issue.


You've said that a million times. We know. And we also know that Arne Duncan loves the tests. So we're stuck with them. And now the tests are based on Common Core standards which makes the Common Core an issue because it is being tested. Do you get the connection?


Are the tests the problem? Then fight the testing requirement. Don't waste your time fighting the Common Core standards. Fighting the Common Core standards will not get rid of the testing requirement.


That needs to be focused - just fighting or opting out of PARCC doesn't get rid of NCLB and the testing requirement either.

Again, the issue of what SPECIFICALLY is wrong with the tests needs to be dealt with. Fighting against the mere fact of testing isn't going to cut it. If your gripe is that the tests aren't diagnostic, fine, then lobby and campaign for the tests to be diagnostic.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2015 09:34     Subject: If you are anti - PARCC are you also anti SAT?
I'm not anti-PARCC at all. On the contrary. But I think this is false equivalency.

PARCC is a capstone exam. SAT is a matriculation exam.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2015 09:31     Subject: Re:If you are anti - PARCC are you also anti SAT?
Anonymous wrote:
The tests are required by the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001. The tests are not a Common Core issue, they are a No Child Left Behind Act issue.


You've said that a million times. We know. And we also know that Arne Duncan loves the tests. So we're stuck with them. And now the tests are based on Common Core standards which makes the Common Core an issue because it is being tested. Do you get the connection?


Are the tests the problem? Then fight the testing requirement. Don't waste your time fighting the Common Core standards. Fighting the Common Core standards will not get rid of the testing requirement.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2015 09:28     Subject: Re:If you are anti - PARCC are you also anti SAT?
The tests are required by the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001. The tests are not a Common Core issue, they are a No Child Left Behind Act issue.



You've said that a million times. We know. And we also know that Arne Duncan loves the tests. So we're stuck with them. And now the tests are based on Common Core standards which makes the Common Core an issue because it is being tested. Do you get the connection?
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2015 09:26     Subject: Re:If you are anti - PARCC are you also anti SAT?
Anonymous wrote:
"Developmentally inappropriate" is a term that teachers are applying to standards that are so far out of reach for their students that the kids hit the frustration level. CC supporters do not have a clue.


Bullshit.



Lost me there.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2015 09:19     Subject: Re:If you are anti - PARCC are you also anti SAT?
Anonymous wrote:

The answers are slowly coming out. Did you read the Forbes article that was posted on the other thread?

Also, yes, let's give teachers time to help change these standards. There are some big reasons why they are not working out in the schools. And let's stop the testing RIGHT AWAY until we can refine the whole implementation process. Wouldn't you agree that it's not fair to test kids in so many schools where the standards are not being implemented well? The kids don't understand why they are failing. It's a mess.


The tests are required by the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001. The tests are not a Common Core issue, they are a No Child Left Behind Act issue.