Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not Ivy or nothing. There is a whole lot of in between there.

She will, if she hasn't already, picked up on your disappointment in her. So tread lightly.

Nothing at all wrong with going to community college for two years. Around here if you do well those first two years, it's guaranteed acceptance at public colleges. Not sure about where you live, but it's worth looking into.

The problem is that this isn't even a case of Ivy or nothing. They will need to look HARD for a school that would even consider a score in the 14-16 range. That is between the 8th and 19th percentile.

Perhaps your daughter is better suited to a skilled trade, OP. There is nothing wrong with that. My plumber brother pulls close to six figures in a given year, and likes his job. He loves to work with his hands. That's what he's good at. Not everyone will succeed in an academic setting.

Can't believe you said this. Tests mean NOTHING! Have your DD apply to a test optional school. There are some really good schools out there that fall into this category. I did terrible on SAT, did well in college; did terrible on LSAT, did great in law school, finished top 5% of my class and did great on Bar exam.

Anonymous wrote:Nursing is hard, test-oriented, not particularly nurturing anymore, and very demanding and stressful as a job. My sister was pushed in this direction with a similar profile and she failed out and it was so not right for her. Social work is a great profession. Don't worry about pay! I recommended CCC above. Now that I hear your daughter had extended time in school, which means she has had an ongoing issue with testing and academics, I recommend that or something similar even more strongly. It seems to me her learning challenges have been completely neglected and that is why she is discouraged. It's not too late to get a good evaluation and get set up. Many colleges now offer support services including extended time, writing center support, tutoring, etc., and it would be good to help your daughter get set up for this. The fact that she is getting improved grades shows she is able to work hard despite some potential challenges or anxiety. You the parents need to step up. JMHO.

I didn't mean to imply that nursing was an easy path. However, social work isn't a walk in the park either. Certainly, it can be a rewarding career and pay shouldn't be the driving factor. But considering that a career in social work means a Masters degree, 3000 hours of supervision, and maintaining a certification (i.e. LPC) you can rack up plenty of debt before settling into a career that pays $50-75K. So while its true that people don't go into social work for high pay, just know up front that OP's daughter would be looking at 6 years of college, another several years of supervision at a low paying job, and then another exam before she can work as a counselor. And that's not an easy path for a teen struggling with taking the ACT.

You say that she struggles with the ACT and everyone here has already given advice.

But I carefully read OP's post and it does not show how much effort DD has put into the ACT test. You can improve your scores significantly by spending lots of time and effort on studying for the ACT 9 (or any test). Both of my children (who are now in college) spent a lot of time on the exams. DH and I sent them to ACT camp for 1 week during spring break and 6 weeks during the summer of their rising junior year. At these camps, they spent about 60 hours each week studying and taking practice test after practice test. Once they returned to school, we has a tutor spend 4 hours with them every Saturday and they had to study for another 4 hours during every weekend.

Spring Break Camp 60 hours
Summer Camp 360 hours (60 hours a week for 6 weeks)
Fall Tutoring 80 hours (4 hours a week for 20 weeks)
Fall Studying 80 hours (4 hours a week for 20 weeks)
Winter Break 80 hours (40 hours over 2 weeks)

Total 660 hours

Both of my kids hated the experience and Mom and Dad were not favorites after this. My kids called us all sorts of names.

Both of the kids were in the top 20% of there class but were not academic superstars by any measure. The first practice test had them in the 50th percentile. After the above, each was in the top 10% (2nd child was in the top 5% as she saw her sister benefit from all this practice).

Most of our friends thought that we were being extreme in the approach and that we should not let tests define who our child is etc. Both DH and I take the view that this is not seeing the world as it is but instead of seeing the world as you would like it to be. The tests are given in order to help rank kids from many different school with different grading policies into a single set of numbers. Again on a very conceptual basis, I think that this is not all that fair and that some children have test taking anxiety and other issues. Reality is that the colleges are ranked on the very numbers that they rank the students on. Schools need to ensure that they are picking the strongest students or risk being left behind in the college rankings.

Older DD got into a school that she would certainly not have gotten into with the original 50% grade. Additionally, she was able to get into the program that she wanted and is now a pharmacist.

Same story with the second daughter. She will graduate this fall and is a nurse anesthetist.

You need to make sure that your child spends no less than 500 hours preparing for this test. Test anxiety will go way down when they are taking the test for the 20th time.

I think you should convey to your daughter that she can succeed in real life, at real things, at anything she enjoys and puts her mind to. She'd demonstrated she can do school work and class work successfully, and you've seen remarkable improvement and maturity in hoer study and time management skills. Good for her!

Your job as a parent is to help her navigate the more challenging parts of her life. And it's okay to have challenges--EVERYONE DOES at several points in their lives! So that's what you're here for now!

What you observe is that there is a discrepancy between what she's able to do in school when she focuses and puts her mind to it, and what the ACT scores demonstrate. What's up? Well, because you're a man of science and reason, you know it's not magic or voodoo. Where there's a will, skill, and perseverance, there's a way.

So sit with her and evaluate the evidence. Is she applying herself to ACT prep? Where does she think the rough spots are--with the content or process knowledge? Or with test taking strategies? Or nerves? Something else? And then get on it.

I took a Kaplan GRE prep course and found it amazing, but that was 20 years ago, things change, and there's probably a lot of variability among instructors. Maybe a combo tutor (a good one, not just some shmo off the street) *and* test taking support would help?

Keep telling her, her job with your help is to do her best, identify road blocks, and find a way over or around them. You don't want the silly ACT to hold her back--you'll help her find a way to make her scores an asset, or to highlight for admissions committees all the other important and valid evidence of her competence and grit so she gets into a school she's excited about and can excel in.

PS: That school doesn't have to be an ivy. I went to an elite (top-20) kind of school; my sister went to a top tier liberal arts college, and my other sis went to a big state school. Guess what? We took different paths, but turned out remarkable similar! And the state school gal? Well, I'd say in many ways she outperformed her older sisters in the end. Though we're all happy, healthy, contributing citizens with families and pretty sweet careers.

Anonymous wrote:But as a HS junior, am I too late with an evaluation? She can't go back and restart HS. Or is it really a case of looking at CC as a chance to get her the help she needs so she can move forward? I hear horror stories about CC graduation rates so it does concern me.

A lot of kids don't graduate. They try out college that way and don't think it's for them. Or they are lower income and can't afford it. Or they need to work, and maybe eventually go back. But that doesn't mean your daughter won't graduate.

It'll give her a chance to retake ACTs and SATs with accommodations for one. Two, she can explore having some supports in her senior year in HS to see what helps or doesn't help. Then use that eval for college. After she gets college acceptances, whether it's at a CC or 4 yr college, she can send her eval in and find out what supports she qualifies so she can be most successful. Also, she can do a CC for 2 years and try to transfer to a 4 year college. YOu save a lot of money and still graduate from a good 4 year. I think you have to factor in that many people don't plan on going to CCs for 2-4 yrs so it's understandable that they have lower graduation rates. I still think your daughter could be on a regular college track if you pick the right school. Those consulting companies know all the schools and what kinds of students they work well for. I went to a presentation on college for kids with learning differences put on by CCC and they mentioned the following as possibly being good fit for kids who need some support: RIT, Northeastern, High Point, McDaniel, Yukon, Maryhurst, U of Ariz, Lynn, U of Denver. Also I've heard that U of W. Va has a good support system for kids with ADHD. These may not be the best fit for your daughter but the point is there are a lot of schools out there for all kinds of kids and learning styles. An eval can potentially help your daughter with ideas for approaches to school work that will make it easier and she can take to college. Also can identify her learning style to help figure out what type of school is best for her (large vs. small for example). The ACT is a red flag that she has some issues with learning and there are ways to investigate this and get her better support.