Anonymous wrote:I work in career services at a large university and am not currently seeing a demand for US born Mandarin speakers in the job market.

The kids most in demand are the ones with true global fluency, like the diplomat's kids who grew up speaking a native language but attended English speaking international schools in multiple countries. The Chinese students are marketable back home for their English skills. There is very little demand for mandarin speakers here in the US and it is not easy for an American to get hired in China due to visa and work permit regulations etc.

I support the study of foreign languages for the pure sake of it but at least as of right now the market is speaking and Mandarin isn't much in demand. Whether it will be in 20 years or not is another question.
Right now I'm not seeing it.

+1. A friend of mine (white, Jewish) studied Mandarin to college level and then lived and worked in China (running a factory) for 5 years. When he returned to the US he was completely unemployable. He searched for a job for THREE YEARS before giving up and going back to China where his skills were actually in demand as a native English speaker with fluent Mandarin. There was no demand in the US at all for someone with his language skills.

Great if you want a job in intelligence, kind of like people who learned Russian during the Cold War.

My husband is from China and moved here for college. He's now fully fluent in English (though he has an accent of course) and conducts international business in China.

There are a decent number of Chinese Americans (born in America) that he interacts with. As PP with latino friend noted, those Chinese Americans can't fully do business in China. In part, they lack the language skills -- they grew up speaking and practicing mostly "family" language and the language learning you do in school (many of them did Chinese school) isn't adequate to become business-level proficient.

The bigger issue, though, is that they are epic failures at understanding the culture and nuance of business conversations in China by native speakers there. They didn't grow up in the culture, and for business in particular (and specifically in Asia), you need to be able to read the subtext of what someone is saying -- a complex and advanced skill that only comes from years of exposure in the actual culture.

Is isn't as much an issue in HK or English-predominant territories or countries in Asia (Singapore, etc), but even in English conversations, you have to know the culture to get anything done.

I think language learning is great, but thinking that some white kid learning Mandarin in a school in the U.S. at 3 is going to give them an edge is fantasy.

Anonymous wrote:While I realize the multiple benefits of language learning, I do agree that language immersion in Mandarin for 3-year olds is purely fashion and will go out of style when the time comes. Yes, it is those anxious mommies trying to give their snowflakes an edge but going about it in ways they can humblebrag about to their girlfriends on FB. Their hearts are in the right place though, so let them be

So which language should people be immersing their three-year-olds in? Or do you think that three-year-olds don't need to be learning any foreign language at all?

I work in career services at a large university and am not currently seeing a demand for US born Mandarin speakers in the job market.

The kids most in demand are the ones with true global fluency, like the diplomat's kids who grew up speaking a native language but attended English speaking international schools in multiple countries. The Chinese students are marketable back home for their English skills. There is very little demand for mandarin speakers here in the US and it is not easy for an American to get hired in China due to visa and work permit regulations etc.

I support the study of foreign languages for the pure sake of it but at least as of right now the market is speaking and Mandarin isn't much in demand. Whether it will be in 20 years or not is another question.
Right now I'm not seeing it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's a remarkably blinkered view of the utility of learning.

+1 Learning another language helps your brain work in different ways. IMO, it shouldn't be just viewed for utilitarian purposes, ie, it will help me get ahead. I studied French and speak another Asian dialect; my DH is from the UK, and he studied German, a bit of Spanish and French. We found it a bit useful when we traveled abroad. In school, learning about the culture was also a part of learning the language.

I would tell your kids to learn whatever language they want to learn, even if it's Latin, which is helpful for premed/prelaw. It just makes you a more well-rounded person and exercises your brain in different ways, kind of like learning to play an instrument.

Agree with this statement and the one before. Do it for the love of learning and make sure it's a language your kid is excited to learn. Don't do it because it will give you an edge in business. It won't. As a PP said, getting the proficiency to perform in a high-paced business setting is very specialized and you have to be very immersed (maybe with a spouse speaking that language) and really want to do it.

While I realize the multiple benefits of language learning, I do agree that language immersion in Mandarin for 3-year olds is purely fashion and will go out of style when the time comes. Yes, it is those anxious mommies trying to give their snowflakes an edge but going about it in ways they can humblebrag about to their girlfriends on FB. Their hearts are in the right place though, so let them be

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Seems like there have been several threads recently about elementary school kids taking Mandarin or other Chinese dialects.

I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone would want to do that unless they have some family or cultural connection to China. It just doesn't seem like a particularly useful language to know unless you plan to live there some day. It'll never be the language of business, for instance. So, what's the appeal, exactly?

Why study French, German, or Spanish for that matter? Doesn't seem particularly useful to know.

Well, French is a language of diplomacy.

Mandarin will only ever be used in China. Yes, it's a huge market -- but like I said, is usefulness is limited,unless you're going to go live and work there.

this is so dumb and ill-informed. How many people right in this area speak Mandarin on a daily basis? - I know dozens of them.

But I think that reflects the field you're in and the people you know - it's anecdotal. I could make the same argument, to the opposite point. I know one person in this area who uses Mandarin on a regular basis. One. But Asia isn't my focus, and business isn't my field. The people I know out of this area who speak Mandarin live in CA (in an area where there is a lot of opportunity to use it) or mainland China. And to echo a PP, friends in HK speak Cantonese, not Mandarin, and work in English. I think the focus here on having kids learn Mandarin is more about the parents feeling their kids need an "edge".

Anonymous wrote:That's a remarkably blinkered view of the utility of learning.

+1 Learning another language helps your brain work in different ways. IMO, it shouldn't be just viewed for utilitarian purposes, ie, it will help me get ahead. I studied French and speak another Asian dialect; my DH is from the UK, and he studied German, a bit of Spanish and French. We found it a bit useful when we traveled abroad. In school, learning about the culture was also a part of learning the language.

I would tell your kids to learn whatever language they want to learn, even if it's Latin, which is helpful for premed/prelaw. It just makes you a more well-rounded person and exercises your brain in different ways, kind of like learning to play an instrument.

This was discussed in great detail a while back on a college discussion board. It was pointed out there that while Mandarin is spoken by a large number of people, most of the speakers live in one country and most of the people in that country do not speak that particular dialect. It depends on the individual whether learning any particular language is worth their time. Some may have more utility than others, but people may want to study a language for reasons other than their usefulness.

I know a young person who finished grad school a few years ago, majoring in Chinese (has learnt it for many years and spent several months living there). Doesn't seem to be a whole lot more job opportunities for them right now, though.

That's a remarkably blinkered view of the utility of learning.

NP. IMHO, most study of foreign languages is a waste of time. Unless you happen to go into a field that uses the language regularly, you'll never be good enough to converse effectively enough for a business context.

As one anecdote, I was recently speaking to a US-born Latino lawyer from Miami, who grew up speaking primarily English, but also spoke Spanish to talk to his grandparents and other relatives (as well as others in Miami). He told me how he had anticipated his fluency in English and Spanish would allow him to do all sorts of complex international work involving Central and South American legal issues. What he discovered however is that while he's plenty fluent in conversational Spanish, he's nowhere near adept enough at legal/business/technical Spanish (not to mention the particular sub-dialects) to seamlessly move between cultures. So while he still works in that area, and his Spanish helps, he always needs to associate himself with local lawyers and business people to be truly effective.

So I seriously doubt many of these Mandarin-learning children will get much utility out of their studies. Maybe a tiny subset. But for most, time would be better spent on other subjects. In short, people should play to their natural strengths, not their natural weaknesses. That said, I recognize my view may be a minority one.

Here's this podcast. At least someone agrees with me, I guess.
http://freakonomics.com/2014/03/05/is-learning-a-foreign-language-really-worth-it-full-transcript/

Anonymous wrote:If you don't see the utility, then good news! You don't have to study it!

And if you already know (or think you know) the answer to why non-Chinese-origin people are studying Mandarin, then why ask? Why not just say, "This is why non-Chinese-origin people are studying Mandarin, and I think it's a stupid reason."?

Because I wondered if there was something I was missing. So far, I haven't been proven wrong, and my theory is validated. But there was no need for me to kick off the thread with a hostile and judgmental statement like the one you suggest. Is this a way you commonly communicate? How does that work out for you?

Anonymous wrote:

Well, I think gearing your kid's entire education around being able to have conversations in the US with Mandarin speakers would be really strange if you have no family connections.

Duly noted.

Hey, people without family connections to China who send their children to Yu Ying or Chinese partial immersion in MCPS -- somebody on DCUM thinks you're weird! Please adjust your behavior accordingly.