Anonymous wrote:So for any BTDT or knowledgeable folks, how would you really force home the issue of housing for the sibling after they pass (assuming sibling relies on mom and dad for housing currently, somehow)?
I am a PP. My parents have a trust set up for my brother, but that only really covers how their estate is handled and who's doling out the money. I know that, left to his own devices, my brother will not have stable housing (he currently lives in an apartment financed by disability + parents' dole). I would love for them to leave him the house, but it's in a 55+ community so pretty sure he wouldn't be able to live there unless they hang on for another 20 years (doubtful)!
Who would you go to in this case? I don't think there are any good options among the relatives as they will be seen as "taking my side" by my parents. My parents do have a seemingly reputable financial planner. Would I just call him out of the blue or something?

I'm a PP. I haven't BTDT, but do have a sort of plan. My parents also have a trust set up, that I will manage for my brother. He currenty lives with my parents. When they pass, or are no longer able to love in the home, we'll sell the house and get my brother an apartment. The trust plus his portion of the house sale will hopefully cover rent/living expenses for a significant amount of time. It may also been an option to purchase a smaller place for him to live - like a condo or something. He does work now - so I'm hoping that he will continue to be employed, and I can work with him to continue to build his savings so that he has a better chance of self sufficiency.

All of that said, I don't foresee a future where I'm not financially responsible for my brother at some point. My DH is an only child, and has been pretty understanding as my parents age and I'm starting this process. He has said that he would be open to helping provide financial support, but we would both prefer that my brother never actually live with us. For a lot if reasons that go beyond a DCUM post. I'm glad FH is supportive, but the responsibility is already pretty significant as my parents' health declines. I'm in my early 30s, and we've only been married for about a year and a half. All if this already has had some impact on our own financial planning (for example, we continue to push back having children). So these things bum me out a lot, but I don't see a lot of good options and I'm doing what I can.

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thanks for the great ideas so far! Here's a little more info (didn't want to overwhelm with too much in original post). My brother is trained as a chef, and is actually quite talented at cooking, but his issues and complete lack of executive function have kept him from keeping a job. He does at least cook for my parents, which is actually a great help to them. And I think he absolutely could and should be on disability because his drinking has damaged his heart, which alone should qualify him. I've suggested it to my parents many times, but for some reason they haven't acted on it (my brother doesn't seem able to take on such things for himself). I don't know if it's an emotional thing, that they just can't bring themselves to declare him disabled (though he clearly is), or that the logistics of it are overwhelming for them given everything else going on. The family dynamics make it difficult for me to insert myself into current decisions about him, but I do think I need to push harder on that.

Whether or not they can leave him anything will depend on how long they live, as they're currently retired. It's such a sad thing that if they live as long as I hope they will, it means more financial challenges for him some day, but if they are able to leave an inheritance to support him (which I will try to ensure that I manage), it's because their lives were too short.

Thanks again for reading and replying!

You need to work with your parents and your brother to get him on disability before your parents die. This should be your number one thing you do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he isn't on disability and has never held down employment then i have to assume your parents have been enablers. I know of a few families in this predicament and the parents often have enabled the adult child's behavior. This is not your fault. The best thing for you to do is to communicate to your brother that you will NOT be supporting him or helping him after your parents die. Make sure he gets you're serious. He has probably talked your parents into supporting him throughout his life and wont take your talk seriously. Youn need to make sure to be clear that you aren't your parents.

This. Do NOT enable this ridiculous behavior. My family is full of these people. It's insane. My dad just died, and my mom is already talking about buying her sister a house. I just tell my mom that it's her money and she can do with it what she wants, but I will NOT support her if she runs out.

Mental illness =/= laziness. That's an unfair categorization. Mental illness can be crippling; chronic absenteeism is one of the first signs of serious depression.

OP's brother sounds like my SIL. SIL is able to work, and has short spurts of work, but inevitably her life tumbles out of control and it impacts her job resulting in her termination. To boot, she now has a conviction, making it that much harder to get work. It would be MUCH IMPROVED if SIL got on medication, but trying to convince someone off of medication that they need meds is very, very hard to do.

Others have suggested disability. The reality is not that simple. You may need a good lawyer to help you navigate the process, and expect for the SSA appeal process to take about 7 years. Depending on where you live, there may be state laws that hinder or help your efforts to get your brother declared incompetent or disabled. Some jurisdictions are very hands-off, essentially preserving the rights of the individual to self-harm/self-destruct.

DH and I are discussing what we'll do in a similar very similar to what you're facing. We're projecting having to support living expenses. Yes, we are not obligated to provide her anything; neither are her parents. But she's family, and making sure she's not homeless is what we feel is the minimum we should be doing.

So for any BTDT or knowledgeable folks, how would you really force home the issue of housing for the sibling after they pass (assuming sibling relies on mom and dad for housing currently, somehow)?
I am a PP. My parents have a trust set up for my brother, but that only really covers how their estate is handled and who's doling out the money. I know that, left to his own devices, my brother will not have stable housing (he currently lives in an apartment financed by disability + parents' dole). I would love for them to leave him the house, but it's in a 55+ community so pretty sure he wouldn't be able to live there unless they hang on for another 20 years (doubtful)!
Who would you go to in this case? I don't think there are any good options among the relatives as they will be seen as "taking my side" by my parents. My parents do have a seemingly reputable financial planner. Would I just call him out of the blue or something?

My only older sister.

I have always suspected something was "off" with her. She has only been able to hold down very menial jobs like housekeeping, nurses aid, fast food, daycare. She got pregnant out of wedlock and had 2 kids with a loser and her left her. She quit working and played the system by doing these vocational training programs and then would work for 6 months and then get fired.

In the meantime my parents managed to take care of her until she was 37. To make a long story shorter, my parents are both dead now. Before my mom passed I told her I could not handle taking care of my sister and I would not be the one she could fall back on during hard times. I tried many, many times to recommed some vocations for her that would provide more stability and she always said she did not want to do any of my suggestions.

2 years ago we had a huge phone fight and I have not spoken to her since. Her kids are now college age (20/21) and float to different friends homes to crash. My sister was left with my parents house (in the midwest). She only needed to pay $180 month in property taxes...I repeat $180.00--no mortgage! Just utilities and property taxes. BUT she is unemployed and the UE checks ran out.
She refused to do daycare, or work at McDonalds and she is now over 50 and NO ONE will hire her (she has not worked since 2007).

A very distant cousin called me to tell me her water and gas have been cut off. She bums rides to get free food from a pantry, the house looks like hoarders and she lost weight and has a skin rash and smells.

We called a social service program but my sister REFUSES to be declared mentally unstable. By now I assume she is homeless. There really is nothing I can do for her. I saw this situation coming as my parents were getting older and sicker.

It makes me sad, but I can't help her without pulling my own family down the rabbit hole.

My brother-in-law does not have the issues described, but has been unemployed for many years and lives with my in-laws. It makes me very sad & stressed out - he is a great guy (I actually think, if he got comfortable with diapers, he'd make a great "manny" - he's incredibly wonderful with our toddler) but I don't see any job prospects for him. He's really helpful to my inlaws (grocery shops, cooks etc) but at the same time goes to bed at 4 am, sleeps until noon, hangs out with friends etc. I fear that my DH will want to support him down the road and I'm not willing to do this. Sorry for your challenges, OP.

Anonymous wrote:I know how difficult this is. One of the things that helped us is finding a financial planner that discussed this with my parents. It's a different conversation when it comes from someone else. Hugs.

OP, this is very good advice. Some people, especially some older adults, just need to hear hard realities from a neutral, professional third party -- they can't hear those things from their own kids, sometimes. Find a financial planner and see that planner yourself, alone, first, to explain the situation. If your parents already have someone like that whom they trust (financial planner, personal banker, investment person, whatever) that may be the person who needs to tell them: You must have current wills that reflect your current wishes; you must realize your son needs someone to oversee any money you leave him; and so on.

A previous poster mentioned that unless your brother is legally declared incompetent and your parents are made into his legal guardians, your parents aren't the ones to handle getting him onto disability. I agree. How far do you want to go with bringing up the topic of disability with him and helping him navigate the paperwork and meetings and doctor appointments to make that happen? If you truly feel that having him declared formally disabled, and put on disability benefits, would give you and your parents peace of mind and him more income stablility of his own -- then consider whether you will do that with (not for) him. He does sound as if he has enough mental issues that he cannot manage the application process, or gathering the needed medical details, on his own. I would consider making the effort to get him onto disability (or not, if he doesn't qualify somehow -- at least you'll know for sure whether it's an option or not). But don't ever give him money. You can decide how much time to put into this, and how much effort, but no money, ever, or you are enabling him. And OP, it is NOT selfish or un-sisterly to put your own husband and children first. You must protect your own college and retirement savings. Never let giving brother money be an option here.

OP, are you sure he's not getting bits and pieces of money from your parents, draining them perhaps more than you know? Does he have any access to their accounts? I'm not saying he's a thief -- I'm saying that if he's mentally ill and has access to any of their accounts, any at all, he might be carelessly taking money whenever he feels he needs it. Are your parents the type to monitor accounts and read their statements regularly? You don't want to end up with their finding that money they thought they had in retirement is less than they expected. I've seen a mentally ill person who nibbled away at family accounts and older relatives didn't notice it for a long time--It was not done to be malicious or even sneaky, but just thoughtlessly because "it's our family money and I need X right now."

That's another reason, too, to get a financial planner involved sooner, not later.

Have you had this conversation with your parents? They are young enough to grasp the severity of this issue. Do they expect YOU to take over?

Anonymous wrote:This is the secret greatness of DCUM. The caring and truly helpful advice. This is why I read here. You posters rock!

OP here - couldn't have said it better myself! Thank you all so much for the great advice and kind words of support. My best wishes to everyone who is dealing with similar situations.

Anonymous wrote:If he isn't on disability and has never held down employment then i have to assume your parents have been enablers. I know of a few families in this predicament and the parents often have enabled the adult child's behavior. This is not your fault. The best thing for you to do is to communicate to your brother that you will NOT be supporting him or helping him after your parents die. Make sure he gets you're serious. He has probably talked your parents into supporting him throughout his life and wont take your talk seriously. Youn need to make sure to be clear that you aren't your parents.

This. Do NOT enable this ridiculous behavior. My family is full of these people. It's insane. My dad just died, and my mom is already talking about buying her sister a house. I just tell my mom that it's her money and she can do with it what she wants, but I will NOT support her if she runs out.