Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 15:05     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you don't get vaccinated you can get the fuck out and move to south america


Oh, honey. That's not the way life works.


Yeah, South America has higher vax rates than us, they don't want those fuckers
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 15:05     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:An infant that is being breastfed receives whatever immunities his or her mother has, so babies actually can have some protection before they are vaccinated. One of my children was born during a measles outbreak and the doctor was very reassuring that my baby had a lot of protection through my immunities (which had been checked during pregnancy).


+1

But since DCUM'ers don't breastfeed, they worry about this stuff. It must suck to be that afraid of something.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 15:04     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:If you don't get vaccinated you can get the fuck out and move to south america


Oh, honey. That's not the way life works.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 15:01     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What is your point with all of this?

If you're an anti vaxxer you can stay right the fuck away from me and my infant. I can say this politely or use lots of profanity... End result is the same... I don't want to breathe the same air as you and if I find out you're at the same pediatrician or daycare center as me, I'm going to make a big fucking stink.


Again, you are an idiot! Just because my kids are not fully vaxxed, does not mean that they are walking hosts. My daughter is not just carrying, measles, etc etc. what do you not get? You have your kid vaxxed, what's the worry dear? Question? Are you fully vaxxed? Doubt it. Have you had you titers checked?
Nice language by the way....

Op, I love you!


I can't decide whether to answer each of your mistaken beliefs point by point with facts and citations, or just post the Samuel L. Jackson "English, motherfucker, do you speak it?" gif from Pulp Fiction. Tough choice.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 14:54     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Op here, responding to 14:44.
I do, in fact, vaccinate my children. I think it is interesting that you assumed I didn't.
So..first of all measles and pertussis are not in the same shot. Two, people do in fact say that vaccines are perfectly safe, and that diseases like pertussis are still around because of the unvaccinated, which is is not true. Pertussis tenacity is unrelated to lack of vaccination.
Which is exactly my point...that there is rhetoric and untruth on both sides


I call bullshit. People who vaccinate don't vomit out this nonsense all over the internet about "both sides."
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 14:50     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:An infant that is being breastfed receives whatever immunities his or her mother has, so babies actually can have some protection before they are vaccinated. One of my children was born during a measles outbreak and the doctor was very reassuring that my baby had a lot of protection through my immunities (which had been checked during pregnancy).
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 14:50     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
Op here, responding to 14:44.
I do, in fact, vaccinate my children. I think it is interesting that you assumed I didn't.
So..first of all measles and pertussis are not in the same shot. Two, people do in fact say that vaccines are perfectly safe, and that diseases like pertussis are still around because of the unvaccinated, which is is not true. Pertussis tenacity is unrelated to lack of vaccination.
Which is exactly my point...that there is rhetoric and untruth on both sides
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 14:49     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
An infant that is being breastfed receives whatever immunities his or her mother has, so babies actually can have some protection before they are vaccinated. One of my children was born during a measles outbreak and the doctor was very reassuring that my baby had a lot of protection through my immunities (which had been checked during pregnancy).
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 14:44     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:I am so frustrated when people who are pro-vaccine and denigrate people who delay immunizations as anti-science are also using dramatic, non-factual language.

It's fine to have different opinons, but when someone tells me that vaccines are 100% safe, with no chance of side effects and that all the vaccine preventable diseases had been eradicated it really doesn't do a lot to convince me. The exemptions in most states have been around since the 60's, so parents making new decisions is not something that occurred solely in the last decade. Plenty of parents questioned the safety of vaccines well, well before Andrew Wakefield.

Measles and pertussis behave in completely different ways, and cannot be controlled in the same way. Whooping cough has NEVER been eradicated in this country, and in fact there is a possibility it is changing its genetic structure: http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/pertussis-evolving/
Fully vaccinated individuals can carry pertussis with no clinical signs, and the vaccine is <80% effective (and that is generous).

Also only Measles is primarily dangerous to children. Rubella and mumps are hazardous to pregnant women and teenage/adult men. The MMR is coming under fire for perhaps not protecting against mumps as well as advertised: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/merck-whistleblowers_b_5881914.html





Sorry, OP, you are anti-science.

The proof of this is all the inaccuracies in your post. No one ever said vaccines are 100% safe. No one ever said they didn't have side effects. No one ever said vaccine-preventable illnesses have been eradicated (though we'd be a whole lot closer if people got their kids vaccinated). Just because the measles and pertussis vaccines are given in the same shot doesn't mean they are the same vaccine, they are combined. No vaccine is 100% effective, but 80% is very high and the effectiveness of the measles vaccine is even higher.

And none of this makes any sense. If you only give your child treatments that are 100% effective with no side effects, ever, then you never give your child any medication of any kind.

I realize people like you are feeling defensive because of the shaming going on but really you should be shamed. Your ignorance shows through. Do you know how many children died of measles before vaccines? How many suffered permanent brain damage? But that sort of rational argument holds no weight with you because while you scream about needing facts, you discard them one by one as not good enough. No facts will ever be good enough for you. Stay away from em and my family.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 14:42     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:

Thank you for this reasoned statement. I am also tired of the ignorance and fear-mongering on both sides.


There is no such thing as "both sides" of this controversy. Or, well, maybe there is -- the science side, and the non-science side. It's like referring to both sides of the debate on whether the earth is round or flat, or things fall down or up.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 14:41     Subject: Re:Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric

Yeah, I just did, and clarified my mistake. The VICP is not going to cut it if the government forces people to vaccinate who do NOT accept the risks, however small. It doesn't matter whether we all think they should for the greater good.


It won't? Why won't it?





Not to be rude, but if you are not clear on the difference between VAERS and the VICP, I don't view you as an authoritative source on what will or will not "cut it."
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 14:40     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:whistleblower at Merck...it seems like the MMR might not prevent mumps as fully as predicted. Link in OP's original post


I can't find a single reputable source reporting on this. Nothing but Huffington Post and a bunch of anti-vaccine sites. If somebody can find a reputable source, could you please post a link?
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 14:39     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
If you don't get vaccinated you can get the fuck out and move to south america
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 14:38     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:I am so frustrated when people who are pro-vaccine and denigrate people who delay immunizations as anti-science are also using dramatic, non-factual language.

It's fine to have different opinons, but when someone tells me that vaccines are 100% safe, with no chance of side effects and that all the vaccine preventable diseases had been eradicated it really doesn't do a lot to convince me. The exemptions in most states have been around since the 60's, so parents making new decisions is not something that occurred solely in the last decade. Plenty of parents questioned the safety of vaccines well, well before Andrew Wakefield.

Measles and pertussis behave in completely different ways, and cannot be controlled in the same way. Whooping cough has NEVER been eradicated in this country, and in fact there is a possibility it is changing its genetic structure: http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/pertussis-evolving/
Fully vaccinated individuals can carry pertussis with no clinical signs, and the vaccine is <80% effective (and that is generous).

Also only Measles is primarily dangerous to children. Rubella and mumps are hazardous to pregnant women and teenage/adult men. The MMR is coming under fire for perhaps not protecting against mumps as well as advertised: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/merck-whistleblowers_b_5881914.html





Thank you for this reasoned statement. I am also tired of the ignorance and fear-mongering on both sides.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 14:38     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
whistleblower at Merck...it seems like the MMR might not prevent mumps as fully as predicted. Link in OP's original post