Anonymous
02/02/2015 09:42
Subject: 3K lease breaking clause in VA - how would you handle?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:VA real estate lawyer here. There is a decent argument that the charge is illegal but it would be a fact-specific inquiry. There's no VA statute directly on point, just squishy caselaw. What does this mean for you in practice? If you break your lease early without permission, you WILL be charged, and if you don't pay the charge, they WILL take it out of your sec'y deposit and could well sue you for the balance and report it to the credit bureaus. Without a lawyer, you WILL lose that suit; with a lawyer, you might win, but you'd easily pay a few thousand bucks for the privilege, and you still might lose also, depending on the facts.
That said, to PP: Do not assume that just because a provision is in a lease or contract, it must be legal. Many class action consumer lawyers have made small fortunes by being smarter, and reading more carefully, than the lawyers for the banks/credit card companies.
Not necessarily true. Especially if it's a commercial landlord, they probably have a provision for attorney fees in the lease.
Yeah, their fees (not yours). It's a one-way fee provision. Many states don't allow that but VA enshrined it in the VRLTA.
Anonymous
02/02/2015 09:40
Subject: 3K lease breaking clause in VA - how would you handle?
Anonymous wrote:VA real estate lawyer here. There is a decent argument that the charge is illegal but it would be a fact-specific inquiry. There's no VA statute directly on point, just squishy caselaw. What does this mean for you in practice? If you break your lease early without permission, you WILL be charged, and if you don't pay the charge, they WILL take it out of your sec'y deposit and could well sue you for the balance and report it to the credit bureaus. Without a lawyer, you WILL lose that suit; with a lawyer, you might win, but you'd easily pay a few thousand bucks for the privilege, and you still might lose also, depending on the facts.
That said, to PP: Do not assume that just because a provision is in a lease or contract, it must be legal. Many class action consumer lawyers have made small fortunes by being smarter, and reading more carefully, than the lawyers for the banks/credit card companies.
Not necessarily true. Especially if it's a commercial landlord, they probably have a provision for attorney fees in the lease.
Anonymous
02/02/2015 09:38
Subject: 3K lease breaking clause in VA - how would you handle?
Anonymous wrote:Just ask the manager of the property if he is able to rent your apt would he waive your fee. We did and they did. I referred two other families who both rented there and we are all happy.
+1. My lease said that we would owe the entire remaining term of the lease if we left. I talked to the property manager just because I was curious about how it would work. Turns out the actual process is nothing like it is described in the lease. He gave me two options if I broke the lease: (1) pay 2 month penalty or (2) pay a $500 penalty + 60 days rent from the day I vacated - the amount of rent received if they re-rent the place during that 60 days. 2 is a little complicated but basically I don't owe rent for the 60 days if they re-rent it, only the $500 fee and rent for the time the property is vacant.
My point being, I would not have had any idea this option existed if I didn't go talk to the property manager. This was in a Home Properties community which is a very large company which has many units.
Anonymous
02/01/2015 18:34
Subject: 3K lease breaking clause in VA - how would you handle?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If it's in your lease and you signed it, why do you feel you don't need to pay it?
Because the clause is illegal.
Why is it illegal?
Falls under double rent and liquid damages which are both illegal in VA.
I didn't realize it was illegal when I signed it.
Incorrect, in fact in virginia you can legally have the tenants owe the entire
I have a clear rent break clause, an early terminiation fee equivillent to 1 month of rent and any rents due while the unit is vacant.
Under virginia law you cannot collect rent from the previous tenant IF the current unit rented out but a fee is different then rent.
Actually the courts have held that the fee is double rent since the fee is usually equal to rent. Also as a liquid damage (estimated damage) the amount won't hold up in court because there is no proof of damage if the unit was rerented.
And my PP calling you an idiot is further reinforced. It is a termination fee, not rent and not accelerated damages. Rent is rent, damages are damages, security deposit is a security deposit, app fees are app fees and termination clauses and fees are termination clauses and fees. There are laws bit UCC and VRLTRA that govern these things.
Suck it up. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. Basically this post is "I'm not trustworthy and not willing to live up to my word or binding signature. Please someone tell me it's okthT I'm a terrible human being that wants to screw someone else over."
Not OP, but wow, you and I have very different moral codes. You did catch that this is a big commercial landlord right? Do you think that company got to be so big by having a strict moral code of, "Well we signed a contract, so we better abide by it" / "paying all our debts is the most important thing"?
I do not understand people who think that it is morally important to pay their debts to big corporations and failure to do so is immoral, when those same big corporations have no qualms with avoiding paying their debts whenever possible under law.
You are sick
No, just rational.
Anonymous
02/01/2015 18:29
Subject: 3K lease breaking clause in VA - how would you handle?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If it's in your lease and you signed it, why do you feel you don't need to pay it?
Because the clause is illegal.
Why is it illegal?
Falls under double rent and liquid damages which are both illegal in VA.
I didn't realize it was illegal when I signed it.
Incorrect, in fact in virginia you can legally have the tenants owe the entire
I have a clear rent break clause, an early terminiation fee equivillent to 1 month of rent and any rents due while the unit is vacant.
Under virginia law you cannot collect rent from the previous tenant IF the current unit rented out but a fee is different then rent.
Actually the courts have held that the fee is double rent since the fee is usually equal to rent. Also as a liquid damage (estimated damage) the amount won't hold up in court because there is no proof of damage if the unit was rerented.
And my PP calling you an idiot is further reinforced. It is a termination fee, not rent and not accelerated damages. Rent is rent, damages are damages, security deposit is a security deposit, app fees are app fees and termination clauses and fees are termination clauses and fees. There are laws bit UCC and VRLTRA that govern these things.
Suck it up. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. Basically this post is "I'm not trustworthy and not willing to live up to my word or binding signature. Please someone tell me it's okthT I'm a terrible human being that wants to screw someone else over."
Not OP, but wow, you and I have very different moral codes. You did catch that this is a big commercial landlord right? Do you think that company got to be so big by having a strict moral code of, "Well we signed a contract, so we better abide by it" / "paying all our debts is the most important thing"?
I do not understand people who think that it is morally important to pay their debts to big corporations and failure to do so is immoral, when those same big corporations have no qualms with avoiding paying their debts whenever possible under law.
You are sick
Agree. I think you meant to write
Not OP, but wow, you have a moral code and I do not.
Anonymous
02/01/2015 16:30
Subject: 3K lease breaking clause in VA - how would you handle?
Anonymous wrote:So I'm looking to move to a bigger place before school registration and realized I would owe a fee of nearly $3,400 by my current lease. I'm considering fighting the fee - it is a commercial property so they will re-rent it quickly. I would argue that I will pay any actual costs of the unit being vacant up to the $3400 fee but will not pay if they cannot prove the apartment isn't rented. What would you do?
OP, what are you going to do if the landlord cannot find another tenant for 3 or 4 months (if you think this cannot happen, you are dreaming)? are you willing to pay the costs for advertising to find a new tenant and the rent for 3 or 4 months while you are living elsewhere and pay rent somewhere else? or suddenly you would start arguing that after all the $3400 fee was fair?
Anonymous
02/01/2015 16:16
Subject: 3K lease breaking clause in VA - how would you handle?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If it's in your lease and you signed it, why do you feel you don't need to pay it?
Because the clause is illegal.
Why is it illegal?
Falls under double rent and liquid damages which are both illegal in VA.
I didn't realize it was illegal when I signed it.
Incorrect, in fact in virginia you can legally have the tenants owe the entire
I have a clear rent break clause, an early terminiation fee equivillent to 1 month of rent and any rents due while the unit is vacant.
Under virginia law you cannot collect rent from the previous tenant IF the current unit rented out but a fee is different then rent.
Actually the courts have held that the fee is double rent since the fee is usually equal to rent. Also as a liquid damage (estimated damage) the amount won't hold up in court because there is no proof of damage if the unit was rerented.
And my PP calling you an idiot is further reinforced. It is a termination fee, not rent and not accelerated damages. Rent is rent, damages are damages, security deposit is a security deposit, app fees are app fees and termination clauses and fees are termination clauses and fees. There are laws bit UCC and VRLTRA that govern these things.
Suck it up. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. Basically this post is "I'm not trustworthy and not willing to live up to my word or binding signature. Please someone tell me it's okthT I'm a terrible human being that wants to screw someone else over."
Not OP, but wow, you and I have very different moral codes. You did catch that this is a big commercial landlord right? Do you think that company got to be so big by having a strict moral code of, "Well we signed a contract, so we better abide by it" / "paying all our debts is the most important thing"?
I do not understand people who think that it is morally important to pay their debts to big corporations and failure to do so is immoral, when those same big corporations have no qualms with avoiding paying their debts whenever possible under law.
You are sick
Anonymous
02/01/2015 16:13
Subject: 3K lease breaking clause in VA - how would you handle?
It's not double rent if they don't find another tenant. He doesn't have to try that hard to re-rent the unit because you are still on the line for the rent. We rent out our old townhouse. We do not have a "break the lease" clause. You just owe the rent until the lease is over or until the unit is re-rented, and the tenant pays the costs of finding a new tenant early and if the new tenant is for lower rent (due to a weaker rental market.)
Anonymous
02/01/2015 16:10
Subject: 3K lease breaking clause in VA - how would you handle?
If it's a FEE that was agreed upon the the lease, then it is considered liquidated damages. It does NOT count as rent, and therefore, doesn't work the same way when it comes to the "double dipping" issue.
Believe me, I have looked into this myself. I argued that it didn't seem fair to have to pay thousands of dollars in a fee just because I wanted to break a lease early, and then what if the LL found someone to replace me right away? The answers I got, from a legal professional, were what I provided above.
Believe me, I have looked into this myself. I argued that it didn't seem fair to have to pay thousands of dollars in a fee just because I wanted to break a lease early, and then what if the LL found someone to replace me right away? The answers I got, from a legal professional, were what I provided above.
Anonymous
02/01/2015 16:10
Subject: 3K lease breaking clause in VA - how would you handle?
Meh. Big companies will charge something, be told "you can't charge that" and then call it something else, like that makes it ok. I have that argument with my sales guys all the time.