Anonymous
Post 01/18/2015 13:08     Subject: How do you develop a self-motivated child? A kindergartener who can work independently?
Anonymous wrote:
OP here.

I also concentrated on increasing his academic competence, thinking that if the work were easier for him, he'd do it more readily in class. So far this hasn't panned out at all as expected.

It isn't a competence issue, it's behavioral. I've come down hard on him and it hasn't worked. It feels ridiculous to cajole and encourage him to the degree that I have to in order to get basic assignments done. Teachers don't have time for this additional business. He needs to perform.

If you've knuckled down with your child, how long did it take for the results to show at school? For those of you who have addressed this as a behavioral, rather than an academic issue, what was the root cause of the resistance? How'd you address it?



12:57 again. "Knuckled down" for this behavior does not work. It only increases the anxiety. What works for my DS is that he gets rewarded for what he CAN DO and not get punished for what he can't. Your child is not doing this on purpose. You need a formal behavioral plan at school which should be from a "functional behavioral analysis". You don't want to rely on the individual teachers to come up with something like this bc most don't have the expertise. Our school has a behavioral analyst that they normally work with and your school probably does too.

You should ask the school for an evaluation bc this is not a problem that's going to resolve on it's own.

Good luck!
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2015 12:57     Subject: How do you develop a self-motivated child? A kindergartener who can work independently?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would look at what deficit he has that is keeping him from doing the work in class. Does he lose focus too fast? Have trouble staying on task? Take forever to find his pencil? I wouldn't assume it is a conscious behavioral issue or that it is within his capacity to change his behavioral without support.


OP here.

His first response is to resist. I don't understand this. When he does this at home, I find a way to shake him from this thinking. For example, he gasped at the idea of doing some early-reading homework. It's the one where you sound out a three-letter word and match it to a picture (leg, web, wet). I went to Endless Alphabet on his iPad and we reviewed a bunch of letters and sounds. "See, you know this!" Then, he went to work on the reading task and was done within a few minutes. At school, he just has an "oh no" response and spends the assignment time avoiding the work.

I am listening to the poster who mentioned the achievement versus work ethic piece. Fear of failure. Maybe I do need to back off a bit in my expectations, or how I state them. Maybe I'm too intense. I'll look at that.

I found this blog post useful: http://joannagoddard.blogspot.com/2013/09/motherhood-mondays-six-words-to-say-to.html

Saying, "I like watching you work" is better than something more specific. I did notice that when I complimented the way he wrote his "e," he asked if there was something wrong with his "t." So, I get that he may be hearing criticism in my praise.

But, at the end of the day, he needs to do what the teacher tells him to do. I've explained that he just has to try. Even if he doesn't finish, he needs to start. I mean, come on kiddo.

Any tips on how to overcome this?


I'm the poster from before, and I should mention I have a child with some learning disabilities. I stand by what I said - what is happening in your example is that he doesn't know how to approach the work. You are providing support and scaffolding, it's that support which enables him to do it. A lot of subtle learning disabilities look like this - you feel like the information is already "in there" because the child has learned it, but there's some connection missing, or a skill deficit, which is why he can't do it on his own and needs help getting started. I would of course try to be laid-back and uncritical, but I would also keep in mind that if it is happening at school it's likely to be something he needs help with, not just something about your style. It is very likely that with support he will eventually get it and be able to do it himself, but he does need that support - and I'd talk to his teacher about what she suggests.


Also, when he resists - that's anxiety. It's not that he's defying your or the teacher, it's that he honestly doesn't have the skills he needs to start work. It may be too early to diagnose ADHD, but this behavior pattern is one that I have seen in kids with ADHD and executive-function disorders. You don't need to "come down hard on him," you need to give him the tools he needs.


It's anxiety. I have an older child in a dual language program and he has ASD/ADHD. He presents exactly like your child. He is more than capable of doing the work, he is above grade level in all academic area, but sometimes he refuses to comply - refuses to do the work. He has an IEP for his lack of engagement and refusal to participate. He has a behavioral plan to address this issue which works.

But I will tell you that before the behavioral plan, we were planning on changing schools bc the lack of participation is a big issue. You need to get your child evaluated.
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2015 12:26     Subject: How do you develop a self-motivated child? A kindergartener who can work independently?



I'm the poster from before, and I should mention I have a child with some learning disabilities. I stand by what I said - what is happening in your example is that he doesn't know how to approach the work. You are providing support and scaffolding, it's that support which enables him to do it. A lot of subtle learning disabilities look like this - you feel like the information is already "in there" because the child has learned it, but there's some connection missing, or a skill deficit, which is why he can't do it on his own and needs help getting started. I would of course try to be laid-back and uncritical, but I would also keep in mind that if it is happening at school it's likely to be something he needs help with, not just something about your style. It is very likely that with support he will eventually get it and be able to do it himself, but he does need that support - and I'd talk to his teacher about what she suggests.


Also, when he resists - that's anxiety. It's not that he's defying your or the teacher, it's that he honestly doesn't have the skills he needs to start work. It may be too early to diagnose ADHD, but this behavior pattern is one that I have seen in kids with ADHD and executive-function disorders. You don't need to "come down hard on him," you need to give him the tools he needs.



What are these tools?



Anonymous
Post 01/18/2015 12:22     Subject: How do you develop a self-motivated child? A kindergartener who can work independently?
Your teacher needs to work with this and stay on top of it. My son try's to get out of his work. They now usually get him to do it, but he knows he will do it at home if he does not do it at school. He may need a smaller class size where he can get more attention. My child absolutely can do the work but has some developmental delays. They do lots of worksheets at his school and if anything, they are very repetitive and he knows all the work and I think is bored.
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2015 12:20     Subject: How do you develop a self-motivated child? A kindergartener who can work independently?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would look at what deficit he has that is keeping him from doing the work in class. Does he lose focus too fast? Have trouble staying on task? Take forever to find his pencil? I wouldn't assume it is a conscious behavioral issue or that it is within his capacity to change his behavioral without support.


OP here.

His first response is to resist. I don't understand this. When he does this at home, I find a way to shake him from this thinking. For example, he gasped at the idea of doing some early-reading homework. It's the one where you sound out a three-letter word and match it to a picture (leg, web, wet). I went to Endless Alphabet on his iPad and we reviewed a bunch of letters and sounds. "See, you know this!" Then, he went to work on the reading task and was done within a few minutes. At school, he just has an "oh no" response and spends the assignment time avoiding the work.

I am listening to the poster who mentioned the achievement versus work ethic piece. Fear of failure. Maybe I do need to back off a bit in my expectations, or how I state them. Maybe I'm too intense. I'll look at that.

I found this blog post useful: http://joannagoddard.blogspot.com/2013/09/motherhood-mondays-six-words-to-say-to.html

Saying, "I like watching you work" is better than something more specific. I did notice that when I complimented the way he wrote his "e," he asked if there was something wrong with his "t." So, I get that he may be hearing criticism in my praise.

But, at the end of the day, he needs to do what the teacher tells him to do. I've explained that he just has to try. Even if he doesn't finish, he needs to start. I mean, come on kiddo.

Any tips on how to overcome this?


I'm the poster from before, and I should mention I have a child with some learning disabilities. I stand by what I said - what is happening in your example is that he doesn't know how to approach the work. You are providing support and scaffolding, it's that support which enables him to do it. A lot of subtle learning disabilities look like this - you feel like the information is already "in there" because the child has learned it, but there's some connection missing, or a skill deficit, which is why he can't do it on his own and needs help getting started. I would of course try to be laid-back and uncritical, but I would also keep in mind that if it is happening at school it's likely to be something he needs help with, not just something about your style. It is very likely that with support he will eventually get it and be able to do it himself, but he does need that support - and I'd talk to his teacher about what she suggests.


Also, when he resists - that's anxiety. It's not that he's defying your or the teacher, it's that he honestly doesn't have the skills he needs to start work. It may be too early to diagnose ADHD, but this behavior pattern is one that I have seen in kids with ADHD and executive-function disorders. You don't need to "come down hard on him," you need to give him the tools he needs.
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2015 12:19     Subject: How do you develop a self-motivated child? A kindergartener who can work independently?
Anonymous wrote:OP, what does the teacher say?


He's in a dual language program and has two teachers. They each have expressed a shared frustration at his lack of follow through on the work. One teacher is more willing to work with him by having him sit next to her while he does the assignment, encourage him, etc. The other one just stated her fear that he would be left behind in first grade because they don't have time for any one-on-one. They both stated how smart he is and how clear it is that he is capable of doing the work.

Anonymous
Post 01/18/2015 12:17     Subject: How do you develop a self-motivated child? A kindergartener who can work independently?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would look at what deficit he has that is keeping him from doing the work in class. Does he lose focus too fast? Have trouble staying on task? Take forever to find his pencil? I wouldn't assume it is a conscious behavioral issue or that it is within his capacity to change his behavioral without support.


OP here.

His first response is to resist. I don't understand this. When he does this at home, I find a way to shake him from this thinking. For example, he gasped at the idea of doing some early-reading homework. It's the one where you sound out a three-letter word and match it to a picture (leg, web, wet). I went to Endless Alphabet on his iPad and we reviewed a bunch of letters and sounds. "See, you know this!" Then, he went to work on the reading task and was done within a few minutes. At school, he just has an "oh no" response and spends the assignment time avoiding the work.

I am listening to the poster who mentioned the achievement versus work ethic piece. Fear of failure. Maybe I do need to back off a bit in my expectations, or how I state them. Maybe I'm too intense. I'll look at that.

I found this blog post useful: http://joannagoddard.blogspot.com/2013/09/motherhood-mondays-six-words-to-say-to.html

Saying, "I like watching you work" is better than something more specific. I did notice that when I complimented the way he wrote his "e," he asked if there was something wrong with his "t." So, I get that he may be hearing criticism in my praise.

But, at the end of the day, he needs to do what the teacher tells him to do. I've explained that he just has to try. Even if he doesn't finish, he needs to start. I mean, come on kiddo.

Any tips on how to overcome this?


I'm the poster from before, and I should mention I have a child with some learning disabilities. I stand by what I said - what is happening in your example is that he doesn't know how to approach the work. You are providing support and scaffolding, it's that support which enables him to do it. A lot of subtle learning disabilities look like this - you feel like the information is already "in there" because the child has learned it, but there's some connection missing, or a skill deficit, which is why he can't do it on his own and needs help getting started. I would of course try to be laid-back and uncritical, but I would also keep in mind that if it is happening at school it's likely to be something he needs help with, not just something about your style. It is very likely that with support he will eventually get it and be able to do it himself, but he does need that support - and I'd talk to his teacher about what she suggests.
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2015 12:10     Subject: Re:How do you develop a self-motivated child? A kindergartener who can work independently?
The root cause of my son's behavior was ADHD. Once that was solved, he completes all of his work in class. Does he like it anymore than before? Nope. I don't like 75% of my work but I know I need to do it. You can try motivating him with positive instead of negative consequences. Talk to the teacher about this. Also talk to her about some more challenging work.
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2015 12:08     Subject: How do you develop a self-motivated child? A kindergartener who can work independently?
OP, what does the teacher say?
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2015 11:59     Subject: How do you develop a self-motivated child? A kindergartener who can work independently?

OP here.

I also concentrated on increasing his academic competence, thinking that if the work were easier for him, he'd do it more readily in class. So far this hasn't panned out at all as expected.

It isn't a competence issue, it's behavioral. I've come down hard on him and it hasn't worked. It feels ridiculous to cajole and encourage him to the degree that I have to in order to get basic assignments done. Teachers don't have time for this additional business. He needs to perform.

If you've knuckled down with your child, how long did it take for the results to show at school? For those of you who have addressed this as a behavioral, rather than an academic issue, what was the root cause of the resistance? How'd you address it?

Anonymous
Post 01/18/2015 11:42     Subject: Re:How do you develop a self-motivated child? A kindergartener who can work independently?
Anonymous wrote:

This is the difference between Asian culture and high SES American culture.
Kid is not doing work from Asian family, kid gets made to do Kumon to develop good work habits. Kid has more work at home, difficult at first, but then learns to do quality work above grade level so work at school is easy to do quickly and done well. Work harder kid.
Kid from American high SES family gets dragged to get tested. Parents pay 3,000 dollars to get labeled to get accomodations to do less work. Poor kid he can't help it.


This is an offensive statement. If the Asian culture is so much better, why are you here? This country is built on hard work and personal responsibility. You are stereotyping.



I am NOT Asian. It is just a difference I have noticed. One of my sons is like OP's. I almost did get him evaluated and then I realized it is better for him to struggle at home doing extra work with me so at school the work is easier for him as it is harder to concentrate in his classroom than at home. It was a battle I am glad I fought. He is now above grade level and breezes through his work and is confident.
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2015 11:35     Subject: How do you develop a self-motivated child? A kindergartener who can work independently?
Anonymous wrote:I would look at what deficit he has that is keeping him from doing the work in class. Does he lose focus too fast? Have trouble staying on task? Take forever to find his pencil? I wouldn't assume it is a conscious behavioral issue or that it is within his capacity to change his behavioral without support.


OP here.

His first response is to resist. I don't understand this. When he does this at home, I find a way to shake him from this thinking. For example, he gasped at the idea of doing some early-reading homework. It's the one where you sound out a three-letter word and match it to a picture (leg, web, wet). I went to Endless Alphabet on his iPad and we reviewed a bunch of letters and sounds. "See, you know this!" Then, he went to work on the reading task and was done within a few minutes. At school, he just has an "oh no" response and spends the assignment time avoiding the work.

I am listening to the poster who mentioned the achievement versus work ethic piece. Fear of failure. Maybe I do need to back off a bit in my expectations, or how I state them. Maybe I'm too intense. I'll look at that.

I found this blog post useful: http://joannagoddard.blogspot.com/2013/09/motherhood-mondays-six-words-to-say-to.html

Saying, "I like watching you work" is better than something more specific. I did notice that when I complimented the way he wrote his "e," he asked if there was something wrong with his "t." So, I get that he may be hearing criticism in my praise.

But, at the end of the day, he needs to do what the teacher tells him to do. I've explained that he just has to try. Even if he doesn't finish, he needs to start. I mean, come on kiddo.

Any tips on how to overcome this?
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2015 10:40     Subject: Re:How do you develop a self-motivated child? A kindergartener who can work independently?
Anonymous wrote:

This is the difference between Asian culture and high SES American culture.
Kid is not doing work from Asian family, kid gets made to do Kumon to develop good work habits. Kid has more work at home, difficult at first, but then learns to do quality work above grade level so work at school is easy to do quickly and done well. Work harder kid.
Kid from American high SES family gets dragged to get tested. Parents pay 3,000 dollars to get labeled to get accomodations to do less work. Poor kid he can't help it.


This is an offensive statement. If the Asian culture is so much better, why are you here? This country is built on hard work and personal responsibility. You are stereotyping.



This statement is also offensive.

Is there a rule where only US born people can complain about the culture here? People come to this country for various reasons. Immigrants can appreciate what this country has to offer and not agree 100% about things. I'm sure you have a load of complaints about this country, too, and possibly, your ancestors did, too.
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2015 10:16     Subject: Re:How do you develop a self-motivated child? A kindergartener who can work independently?
Anonymous wrote:

Stolen from slaves, and stolen from the descendants of slaves under Jim Crow.


A lot was built without the help of slaves. Agree that slavery was wrong. That was almost two hundred years ago. Jim Crow has been gone sixty years.



The "help" of slaves?

The Civil War ended in 1865 - 150 years ago. The Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Acts were in 1964 and 1965, respectively -- 50 years ago.

In any case, it's irrelevant to the PP's argument that the country was built on "hard work and personal responsibility". What it was built on, fundamentally, was stolen land, stolen labor, and stolen lives.
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2015 10:04     Subject: Re:How do you develop a self-motivated child? A kindergartener who can work independently?
Anonymous wrote:OP, if there are stacks of worksheets in that class, something is wrong with the program. Meanwhile, just how much homework does a K kid have?


This. Your K child has "stacks of worksheets" you need to run, run away from this school.