To the poster who disputes the Golden Rule because s/he thinks we should treat people as THEY want to be treated rather than as WE want to be treated, I'd like to point out that since my desire is for people to treat me as I wish to be treated, I see the Golden Rule as saying I should treat people as they wish to be treated.

In other words, your objection to the Golden Rule is just a slightly more sophisticated interpretation of it.

Anonymous wrote:Mother Teresa helped lepers and 'untouchables'--she helped change a cultural outlook. Please feel proud of yourself for helping, but don't bash Christians who help out. There are many around the world doing amazing, selfless humanitarian work that is also brave. And they don't do it to convert Christians but to be Xstians.

It's not clear that she believed in God by the end of her days.

Mother Teresa helped lepers and 'untouchables'--she helped change a cultural outlook. Please feel proud of yourself for helping, but don't bash Christians who help out. There are many around the world doing amazing, selfless humanitarian work that is also brave. And they don't do it to convert Christians but to be Xstians.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, oh, let's not forget about that part where you pay 10% of your income to pay for an invisible thing that you won't ever receive until after you're dead...

So many con men and charlatans in the church...

That's not the purpose of the 10% (or whatever you offer) to pay for some invisible thing. Do your homework before you open your mouth with erroneous information.

So many ignoramuses and loudmouths.

Just pointing out your own ignorance. Yes, yes, we all know full well you've been told that what you give goes to the church to support good works. But, the reality of it is that very little of what is given actually ever makes it to help those who most need it.

Isn't church and charity similar to society in that the middle and lower class given a larger percentage of their income to smaller churches? And richer folks give less but to large outfits. And donations to the small branches find their way to more in need while the larger orgs help keep their cult maestros in million dollar houses and fancy lifestyles.

A whole different discussion,... BUT....
The work of the church is not done only by what is taken in by the offering plate.
Churches also have initiatives that provide food for the needy, shelter for the homeless, goods for unwed mothers, support for battered women’s shelters, a place for other charitable and humanitarian organizations to meet, services for homebound or indigent people, assistance for the elderly.... etc., etc., etc.
So, those of you who are atheists or non-religious are really missing out on opportunities to help the local and international communities in ways which our government cannot do efficiently.
A church is much more than a building. It is a community of people with similar beliefs and a desire to help other people because the Lord commanded... “Go and make disciples of all people.” The best way to do this is through our actions and our deeds. This is something many of you simply do not understand.

With all due respect, your statement makes it sound as if the point of helping people is to garner converts.
And if you think that atheists and non-religious people don't volunteer, you're seriously deluded. I volunteer dozens of hours every year, and I'm not doing it because anyone told me I should or because I need to "make disciples" of anyone.

+1000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, oh, let's not forget about that part where you pay 10% of your income to pay for an invisible thing that you won't ever receive until after you're dead...

So many con men and charlatans in the church...

That's not the purpose of the 10% (or whatever you offer) to pay for some invisible thing. Do your homework before you open your mouth with erroneous information.

So many ignoramuses and loudmouths.

Just pointing out your own ignorance. Yes, yes, we all know full well you've been told that what you give goes to the church to support good works. But, the reality of it is that very little of what is given actually ever makes it to help those who most need it.

Isn't church and charity similar to society in that the middle and lower class given a larger percentage of their income to smaller churches? And richer folks give less but to large outfits. And donations to the small branches find their way to more in need while the larger orgs help keep their cult maestros in million dollar houses and fancy lifestyles.

A whole different discussion,... BUT....
The work of the church is not done only by what is taken in by the offering plate.
Churches also have initiatives that provide food for the needy, shelter for the homeless, goods for unwed mothers, support for battered women’s shelters, a place for other charitable and humanitarian organizations to meet, services for homebound or indigent people, assistance for the elderly.... etc., etc., etc.
So, those of you who are atheists or non-religious are really missing out on opportunities to help the local and international communities in ways which our government cannot do efficiently.
A church is much more than a building. It is a community of people with similar beliefs and a desire to help other people because the Lord commanded... “Go and make disciples of all people.” The best way to do this is through our actions and our deeds. This is something many of you simply do not understand.

With all due respect, your statement makes it sound as if the point of helping people is to garner converts.
And if you think that atheists and non-religious people don't volunteer, you're seriously deluded. I volunteer dozens of hours every year, and I'm not doing it because anyone told me I should or because I need to "make disciples" of anyone.

Anonymous wrote:How about treating others how "they" want to be treated.

Because we can't actually know how others want to be treated - we can only use our empathy and sense of self to make an educated guess. By default we are trapped in our own points of view, so the best we can do is make approximations.

The beauty of the golden rule is that it actually aligns with what we know of human mental processing - not how we wish the brain works, but how it DOES. We use mirror neurons to imagine how something would feel for others by 'feeling' how it would feel for us. I 'put myself in your shoes' by imagining them on my own feet.

As to an earlier PP who spoke about Christ's teachings - I do see that poster's point, and it's why I'm still open to going to (some) churches although I'm essentially an atheist: the Christ of the bible has some powerful messages about how to live a better life in this world, regardless of what happens after.

How about treating others how "they" want to be treated.

Anonymous wrote:Jesus made the golden rule

Nope, it's a concept that is a lot older... Here are a couple from 500 years prior to Jesus

"Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself." – Confucian Analects 15:23

"There is nothing dearer to man than himself; therefore, as it is the same thing that is dear to you and to others, hurt not others with what pains yourself" - Buddha - Dhammapada, Northern Canon, 5:18

Phil Zuckerman is a professor of sociology and secular studies at Pitzer College and author of "Living the Secular Life: New Answers to Old Questions."

Follow the Opinion section on Twitter @latimesopinion

Jesus made the golden rule

Anonymous wrote:

i am a church going Christian. But I have done the analysis of a number of church budgets. About 5% of a church's donations goes to the poor or disadvantaged.

If you are referring to my somewhat lengthy post - please note that I listed the work of the church that does not come from the offering plate. Many of the philanthropic deeds in a church are done by its congregants outside of the tithing or weekly offering. And, it would be difficult to place a value on the TIME that church members spend doing these things.

I understand that. I am a regular churchgoer. And while I do not want to discourage anyone from doing it, it still does not add up to all that much. Food drives, staffing the homeless shelter, etc. are good. But they pale in comparison to the money spent on facilities and staff of a church.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yea tho I walk through the valley of the shadow if death I fear no evil....

Huh? You just felt like saying that or does it have relevance to this discussion?

There is comfort ina message of hope, love, endurance. Take it on whatever level, but there is comfort in gods presence.

I have done a lot of charity work over the years, and have worked with a lot of different groups - and from what I have experienced, the only real thing that typically work are the direct, hands-on community engagement, i.e. soup kitchens, otherwise, much of the money that is raised is misdirected, wasted, et cetera. Or, it gets subverted for proselytizing, where the idea of feeding the hungry in Africa means a mission to try and convert them to Christianity. God never fed me when I was hungry, conversion to Christianity will never put food on anyone's plate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

i am a church going Christian. But I have done the analysis of a number of church budgets. About 5% of a church's donations goes to the poor or disadvantaged.

If you are referring to my somewhat lengthy post - please note that I listed the work of the church that does not come from the offering plate. Many of the philanthropic deeds in a church are done by its congregants outside of the tithing or weekly offering. And, it would be difficult to place a value on the TIME that church members spend doing these things.

Are non-members welcome to help?

Absolutely. My church, like most churches, encourage anyone to donate items, time, or services to help in their efforts to assist the community. The planned initiatives are published online, advertised on signs outside the church, and advertised in other ways.
I don’t know about other churches, but our church doesn’t very often get help from those outside the congregation, except for maybe some of the preschool parents who are not members.

Anonymous wrote:

i am a church going Christian. But I have done the analysis of a number of church budgets. About 5% of a church's donations goes to the poor or disadvantaged.

If you are referring to my somewhat lengthy post - please note that I listed the work of the church that does not come from the offering plate. Many of the philanthropic deeds in a church are done by its congregants outside of the tithing or weekly offering. And, it would be difficult to place a value on the TIME that church members spend doing these things.

Are non-members welcome to help?