Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:With freedom comes responsibility, as the saying goes. People focus on their rights, maybe once in a while, we should focus on our duties to mankind. Hate begets Hate. I have never understood the principle of "right to offend". Why would you like to offend someone? What's the usefulness of this right? What was the value added to the world of the distasteful cartoons? They didn't make the world a better place, they contributed to the marginalization and mockery of minorities and contributed to adding more hate to a broken world. Just because you have a right to say something, doesn't mean you should!

With that said, shouldn't the person who the hatred is directed at just ignore the ignorance of the name caller? Of course just because they can be offensive, does not mean that they should be. Unfortunately, it always has been and most likely always will be. When I was younger I was picked on and made fun of. I was offended and it hurt terribly. However, there came a point where I realized that they are making fun of me because of some issue that they have going on in their life. It has nothing to do with me. They have a right to their opinion and to voice it. I have the option of not letting it affect me. More than likely, they are the ones that are miserable and I decided not to let them drag me down with them. Hate does not always beget hate. Unfortunately it does when people are uneducated and are easy pray for those who do hate...no matter what their background is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why not -- is religion some kind of a "no Fly zone" that can't be criticized? Should christians refrain from quoting bible verses when atheists post? it's bothersome, yes, but should it be banned? should they stop reminding atheists of the eternity in hell that awaits them?

This is just what I said would happen. The false argument that atheists are being banned from posting. No. But tell me the motivation for commenting about fairy tales and anti-religious rhetoric when believers are just having a dialogue about something they share in common. What makes you think, "Oh, I have to get in on this ..."?

Again I ask, why post? Not, should you be allowed, but why post in those instances?

no one says that atheists are being banned from posting but you, above. The issue is why should anyone with any religious or irreligious opinion not be free to criticize. The motivation, on all sides, is the free expression of opinion. It can be unpleasant to face criticism of one's beliefs - those are the breaks. To avoid intrusion, maybe you can set up a private message board somewhere, get testimonies of proper belief and charge admission.

Muslima wrote:With freedom comes responsibility, as the saying goes. People focus on their rights, maybe once in a while, we should focus on our duties to mankind. Hate begets Hate. I have never understood the principle of "right to offend". Why would you like to offend someone? What's the usefulness of this right? What was the value added to the world of the distasteful cartoons? They didn't make the world a better place, they contributed to the marginalization and mockery of minorities and contributed to adding more hate to a broken world. Just because you have a right to say something, doesn't mean you should!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why not -- is religion some kind of a "no Fly zone" that can't be criticized? Should christians refrain from quoting bible verses when atheists post? it's bothersome, yes, but should it be banned? should they stop reminding atheists of the eternity in hell that awaits them?

This is just what I said would happen. The false argument that atheists are being banned from posting. No. But tell me the motivation for commenting about fairy tales and anti-religious rhetoric when believers are just having a dialogue about something they share in common. What makes you think, "Oh, I have to get in on this ..."?

Again I ask, why post? Not, should you be allowed, but why post in those instances?

Anonymous wrote:

Why not -- is religion some kind of a "no Fly zone" that can't be criticized? Should christians refrain from quoting bible verses when atheists post? it's bothersome, yes, but should it be banned? should they stop reminding atheists of the eternity in hell that awaits them?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people mock the beliefs of others? Because they need to feel superior. Because their identity is wrapped up in their own atheism or their own religion, and putting the "other" down is a psychological need. Because it's fun to troll on DCUM.

+1

You nailed it!

I am not able to fathom some of religious convictions of others and I am sure they are not able to fathom mine either. But the difference is that it would not cross my mind to disparage what someone else believes. I don't seek to persuade atheists to believe in God; I am perfectly content to let them believe whatever they choose to believe.

It is atheists who choose to put down the beliefs of others and you see it on this forum and elsewhere. Some of it is trolling ........ and some of it is for reasons that I cannot fathom.

+2. I don't understand it either.

All atheists are the same, right? That is your perspective. My perspective is this. The few people I know who claim to be "good" Christians have cheated on their spouse, used violence against people and lie. I know a lot of atheists who are incredibly philanthropic, kind, honest and loving, which would be more in alignment with Christian morals than the ones claiming to be Christian. I also know Christians who are good people and atheists who lack a moral compass. You cannot generalize. How do you know they are atheist? I met a Christian once who told me that the good 'ol U.S.A. should just blow up Israel, because who needs the Jews anyway. When I told him I am Jewish he said "oh, you don't look Jewish. I guess you wouldn't understand then". I know he was Christian because he liked to tell everyone.

I am the liberal Christian who posted earlier. Professing a faith does not necessarily make one a better person and being an atheist does not mean the person has to be morally deficient. But the reality is that there are atheists who seem to derive a certain pleasure in putting down people of faith, questioning their intelligence, their capacity to think logically, etc. You see it on this forum though I am never sure whether they are trolling.

And yes, there are racists who profess to be Christians. In fact, there was a time when segregation in the South and apartheid in South Africa was justified based on biblical rationale!

It is not my role to judge the faith or lack of faith of anyone else or what religion they follow.

Yes. If an atheist posts simply about that position there is not an onslaught of "you're morally deficient" "you need to believe or else". If a religious posts something (even on a thread that is completely based on a religious practice within a faith and not open for philosophical debate) someone always posts "all right, if fairy tales get you through" "yeah, ask your god about injustice XYZ" "tell that to all the oppressed women".

Why even make the post? Why weigh in on a thread that isn't questioning the merits of faith but is a discussion about an aspect of it.

And no, I'm not saying nonbelievers should STAY OUT because YOU'RE NOT WELCOME!!! That false defensiveness comes up often, but that really is just a diversion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people mock the beliefs of others? Because they need to feel superior. Because their identity is wrapped up in their own atheism or their own religion, and putting the "other" down is a psychological need. Because it's fun to troll on DCUM.

+1

You nailed it!

I am not able to fathom some of religious convictions of others and I am sure they are not able to fathom mine either. But the difference is that it would not cross my mind to disparage what someone else believes. I don't seek to persuade atheists to believe in God; I am perfectly content to let them believe whatever they choose to believe.

It is atheists who choose to put down the beliefs of others and you see it on this forum and elsewhere. Some of it is trolling ........ and some of it is for reasons that I cannot fathom.

+2. I don't understand it either.

All atheists are the same, right? That is your perspective. My perspective is this. The few people I know who claim to be "good" Christians have cheated on their spouse, used violence against people and lie. I know a lot of atheists who are incredibly philanthropic, kind, honest and loving, which would be more in alignment with Christian morals than the ones claiming to be Christian. I also know Christians who are good people and atheists who lack a moral compass. You cannot generalize. How do you know they are atheist? I met a Christian once who told me that the good 'ol U.S.A. should just blow up Israel, because who needs the Jews anyway. When I told him I am Jewish he said "oh, you don't look Jewish. I guess you wouldn't understand then". I know he was Christian because he liked to tell everyone.

I am the liberal Christian who posted earlier. Professing a faith does not necessarily make one a better person and being an atheist does not mean the person has to be morally deficient. But the reality is that there are atheists who seem to derive a certain pleasure in putting down people of faith, questioning their intelligence, their capacity to think logically, etc. You see it on this forum though I am never sure whether they are trolling.

And yes, there are racists who profess to be Christians. In fact, there was a time when segregation in the South and apartheid in South Africa was justified based on biblical rationale!

It is not my role to judge the faith or lack of faith of anyone else or what religion they follow.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people mock the beliefs of others? Because they need to feel superior. Because their identity is wrapped up in their own atheism or their own religion, and putting the "other" down is a psychological need. Because it's fun to troll on DCUM.

+1

You nailed it!

I am not able to fathom some of religious convictions of others and I am sure they are not able to fathom mine either. But the difference is that it would not cross my mind to disparage what someone else believes. I don't seek to persuade atheists to believe in God; I am perfectly content to let them believe whatever they choose to believe.

It is atheists who choose to put down the beliefs of others and you see it on this forum and elsewhere. Some of it is trolling ........ and some of it is for reasons that I cannot fathom.

+2. I don't understand it either.

All atheists are the same, right? That is your perspective. My perspective is this. The few people I know who claim to be "good" Christians have cheated on their spouse, used violence against people and lie. I know a lot of atheists who are incredibly philanthropic, kind, honest and loving, which would be more in alignment with Christian morals than the ones claiming to be Christian. I also know Christians who are good people and atheists who lack a moral compass. You cannot generalize. How do you know they are atheist? I met a Christian once who told me that the good 'ol U.S.A. should just blow up Israel, because who needs the Jews anyway. When I told him I am Jewish he said "oh, you don't look Jewish. I guess you wouldn't understand then". I know he was Christian because he liked to tell everyone.

I don't believe the poster was referring in general to anyone specifically outside of this forum which is most definitely wrought with consistent disparging of religious believers or anything having to do with God/Christ. Not to say that some religious proponents aren't over the top but the willful and mean spirited comments of people who profess a belief system that is contrary to non-religious beliefs in this forum can be vicious. And all because you or whomever don't believe in a Deity thereby relegating the believer as unreasonable and moronic (words I've seen repeatedly here).

Live and let live.

That should be *willful and mean spirited comments TOWARDS people who profess a belief system....*

They're not relegating anyone to anything. They're expressing an opinion -- an opinion some don't like and many aren't used to hearing - because religion, especially Christianity, has been given an exalted place in our society - a sort of "no criticism" zone and a belief that people would be better off if they were Christian.

That is finally changing - which is good, just as it was good when women and blacks and other minority groups not longer accepted the exalted position Whites and men held in society.

Christians have been "knocking" the non-belief of atheists all along, assuming they have no morals, denying them rights in some states and making it impossible for them to win elective office (if they are open about their non-brief)

It's not nice to call someone a "Moron." It's also not reasonable in a free society, to expect people outside the majority not to express their opinions or to have the same rights as other citizens.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people mock the beliefs of others? Because they need to feel superior. Because their identity is wrapped up in their own atheism or their own religion, and putting the "other" down is a psychological need. Because it's fun to troll on DCUM.

+1

You nailed it!

I am not able to fathom some of religious convictions of others and I am sure they are not able to fathom mine either. But the difference is that it would not cross my mind to disparage what someone else believes. I don't seek to persuade atheists to believe in God; I am perfectly content to let them believe whatever they choose to believe.

It is atheists who choose to put down the beliefs of others and you see it on this forum and elsewhere. Some of it is trolling ........ and some of it is for reasons that I cannot fathom.

+2. I don't understand it either.

All atheists are the same, right? That is your perspective. My perspective is this. The few people I know who claim to be "good" Christians have cheated on their spouse, used violence against people and lie. I know a lot of atheists who are incredibly philanthropic, kind, honest and loving, which would be more in alignment with Christian morals than the ones claiming to be Christian. I also know Christians who are good people and atheists who lack a moral compass. You cannot generalize. How do you know they are atheist? I met a Christian once who told me that the good 'ol U.S.A. should just blow up Israel, because who needs the Jews anyway. When I told him I am Jewish he said "oh, you don't look Jewish. I guess you wouldn't understand then". I know he was Christian because he liked to tell everyone.

I don't believe the poster was referring in general to anyone specifically outside of this forum which is most definitely wrought with consistent disparging of religious believers or anything having to do with God/Christ. Not to say that some religious proponents aren't over the top but the willful and mean spirited comments of people who profess a belief system that is contrary to non-religious beliefs in this forum can be vicious. And all because you or whomever don't believe in a Deity thereby relegating the believer as unreasonable and moronic (words I've seen repeatedly here).

Live and let live.

That should be *willful and mean spirited comments TOWARDS people who profess a belief system....*

They're not relegating anyone to anything. They're expressing an opinion -- an opinion some don't like and many aren't used to hearing - because religion, especially Christianity, has been given an exalted place in our society - a sort of "no criticism" zone and a belief that people would be better off if they were Christian.

That is finally changing - which is good, just as it was good when women and blacks and other minority groups not longer accepted the exalted position Whites and men held in society.

Christians have been "knocking" the non-belief of atheists all along, assuming they have no morals, denying them rights in some states and making it impossible for them to win elective office (if they are open about their non-brief)

It's not nice to call someone a "Moron." It's also not reasonable in a free society, to expect people outside the majority not to express their opinions or to have the same rights as other citizens.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people mock the beliefs of others? Because they need to feel superior. Because their identity is wrapped up in their own atheism or their own religion, and putting the "other" down is a psychological need. Because it's fun to troll on DCUM.

+1

You nailed it!

I am not able to fathom some of religious convictions of others and I am sure they are not able to fathom mine either. But the difference is that it would not cross my mind to disparage what someone else believes. I don't seek to persuade atheists to believe in God; I am perfectly content to let them believe whatever they choose to believe.

It is atheists who choose to put down the beliefs of others and you see it on this forum and elsewhere. Some of it is trolling ........ and some of it is for reasons that I cannot fathom.

+2. I don't understand it either.

All atheists are the same, right? That is your perspective. My perspective is this. The few people I know who claim to be "good" Christians have cheated on their spouse, used violence against people and lie. I know a lot of atheists who are incredibly philanthropic, kind, honest and loving, which would be more in alignment with Christian morals than the ones claiming to be Christian. I also know Christians who are good people and atheists who lack a moral compass. You cannot generalize. How do you know they are atheist? I met a Christian once who told me that the good 'ol U.S.A. should just blow up Israel, because who needs the Jews anyway. When I told him I am Jewish he said "oh, you don't look Jewish. I guess you wouldn't understand then". I know he was Christian because he liked to tell everyone.

I don't believe the poster was referring in general to anyone specifically outside of this forum which is most definitely wrought with consistent disparging of religious believers or anything having to do with God/Christ. Not to say that some religious proponents aren't over the top but the willful and mean spirited comments of people who profess a belief system that is contrary to non-religious beliefs in this forum can be vicious. And all because you or whomever don't believe in a Deity thereby relegating the believer as unreasonable and moronic (words I've seen repeatedly here).

Live and let live.

That should be *willful and mean spirited comments TOWARDS people who profess a belief system....*

Anonymous wrote:Why do people mock the beliefs of others? Because they need to feel superior. Because their identity is wrapped up in their own atheism or their own religion, and putting the "other" down is a psychological need. Because it's fun to troll on DCUM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people mock the beliefs of others? Because they need to feel superior. Because their identity is wrapped up in their own atheism or their own religion, and putting the "other" down is a psychological need. Because it's fun to troll on DCUM.

+1

You nailed it!

I am not able to fathom some of religious convictions of others and I am sure they are not able to fathom mine either. But the difference is that it would not cross my mind to disparage what someone else believes. I don't seek to persuade atheists to believe in God; I am perfectly content to let them believe whatever they choose to believe.

It is atheists who choose to put down the beliefs of others and you see it on this forum and elsewhere. Some of it is trolling ........ and some of it is for reasons that I cannot fathom.

+2. I don't understand it either.

All atheists are the same, right? That is your perspective. My perspective is this. The few people I know who claim to be "good" Christians have cheated on their spouse, used violence against people and lie. I know a lot of atheists who are incredibly philanthropic, kind, honest and loving, which would be more in alignment with Christian morals than the ones claiming to be Christian. I also know Christians who are good people and atheists who lack a moral compass. You cannot generalize. How do you know they are atheist? I met a Christian once who told me that the good 'ol U.S.A. should just blow up Israel, because who needs the Jews anyway. When I told him I am Jewish he said "oh, you don't look Jewish. I guess you wouldn't understand then". I know he was Christian because he liked to tell everyone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people mock the beliefs of others? Because they need to feel superior. Because their identity is wrapped up in their own atheism or their own religion, and putting the "other" down is a psychological need. Because it's fun to troll on DCUM.

+1

You nailed it!

I am not able to fathom some of religious convictions of others and I am sure they are not able to fathom mine either. But the difference is that it would not cross my mind to disparage what someone else believes. I don't seek to persuade atheists to believe in God; I am perfectly content to let them believe whatever they choose to believe.

It is atheists who choose to put down the beliefs of others and you see it on this forum and elsewhere. Some of it is trolling ........ and some of it is for reasons that I cannot fathom.

+2. I don't understand it either.

All atheists are the same, right? That is your perspective. My perspective is this. The few people I know who claim to be "good" Christians have cheated on their spouse, used violence against people and lie. I know a lot of atheists who are incredibly philanthropic, kind, honest and loving, which would be more in alignment with Christian morals than the ones claiming to be Christian. I also know Christians who are good people and atheists who lack a moral compass. You cannot generalize. How do you know they are atheist? I met a Christian once who told me that the good 'ol U.S.A. should just blow up Israel, because who needs the Jews anyway. When I told him I am Jewish he said "oh, you don't look Jewish. I guess you wouldn't understand then". I know he was Christian because he liked to tell everyone.

I don't believe the poster was referring in general to anyone specifically outside of this forum which is most definitely wrought with consistent disparging of religious believers or anything having to do with God/Christ. Not to say that some religious proponents aren't over the top but the willful and mean spirited comments of people who profess a belief system that is contrary to non-religious beliefs in this forum can be vicious. And all because you or whomever don't believe in a Deity thereby relegating the believer as unreasonable and moronic (words I've seen repeatedly here).

Live and let live.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My question is prompted by the recent acts of terrorism in Paris.

Nothing that I say should be viewed as condoning what happened because it was horrific. But what passes my mind is why anyone would use freedom of speech and expression to mock someone else's faith and cause them to act in a manner that resulted in innocent lives being lost. What was really gained by publishing these cartoons that caused such offense?

I am a Christian though my views are so liberal that fundamentalist Christians would challenge my claim to being a Christian - however, that is neither here nor there. But I see the endless mocking of other people's religious beliefs - and especially Christianity - being increasingly prevalent. Most Christians don't react to this with violence in the US though there are other countries where people would likely be ostracized for challenging conventional beliefs.

I genuinely respect atheists who don't believe in God and would not seek to mock or challenge their belief system. But I see on this forum - and other forums - how atheists choose to disparage those who do believe in an Almighty. I would not seek to persuade anyone else to my own views on religion - my faith is between me and God.

Do the cartoonists who published what was deemed offensive by Muslims think they changed the minds of anyone? What did they really achieve? We know the end result was that innocent people were killed and injured. It seems like a terrible price to pay for the right to publish some offensive cartoons.

So we should all shut our mouths now b/c we should fear for our lives.

Is that what you're saying?