Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, did they actually *say* anything judgmental? Or are you just interpreting "stares"?

We don't have children, but we have friends with children, and we spend time with them. Their kids have had meltdowns in front of us. We've had to cut short activities/dinners to accommodate the children. We've sat in restaurants with their toddlers screaming bloody murder.

But we have never judged them. If we are guilty of staring, it is because we are just as clueless AS THEY ARE about how to make the child stop screaming.

If anything, we probably give them looks of sympathy, as in "how do you deal with this all.of.the.time???"

We aren't ignorant or naive. We know kids cry for no reason sometimes, get tired and meltdown, reach a point (especially when they are removed from their regular routine) at which they are pretty much inconsolable.

So I'm not so certain your friends were judging you. But that didn't stop you from a post wherein YOU judge all childfree/childless couples, and then PPs pile on with the judgment.

That said, you were the one who suggested the trip. You don't know if perhaps they had reservations about going on a vacation with a 2 year old. Most couples who are childfree are childfree for a reason -- it's not that they judge parents; it's that they actively choose not to have a kid because they don't want to spend 24 hours a day dealing with that kind of thing.

We do plenty of things with our friends who have children. And we love their children. We don't judge them.

But we would NEVER agree to a vacation that involved spending a few days, 24 hours a day, with them and their kids, because our vacation time is limited and precious, and we wouldn't want it to be dominated/dictated by a 2 year old.

There's no judgment. It's just a choice we make.

And to the PPs who are saying nasty things about childfree couples being envious, one of the reasons I feel like I'm leaning toward being permanently childfree is BECAUSE of the time I've spent with other people and their children and the realization that it just isn't something I want. And I simply don't believe that "because I don't want to be alone when I'm old" is a good enough reason on its own to have children. Not to mention, I know many old people who seem very lonely, despite the fact that they have adult children.

It's ridiculous to, on the one hand, get upset because you feel childfree couples are *judging* you and then return that with a bunch of judgment.

Different people make different choices. If you want to only be friends with people who think exactly like you do, then fine. Otherwise, you learn how to figure out boundaries and limitations and try to be accommodating. So maybe that only means daytrips with your childfree friends and not full blown vacations.

And if you don't think other parents will give you judgmental looks when your kid is having a meltdown, then you are naive. If anything, I think childfree people are far more sympathetic and less judgmental of parenting than other parents.

I'm curious, why are you hanging out on this board if you don't have kids?

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom of two kids.

The truth is that people who do not have kids do not understand the 24/7 commitment and focus of being with children. Even if these people are very loving and enjoy kids, their interactions with children is for a very limited time. My grown up niece can take care of my kids for a couple of hours - taking them to the park or movies - but would be exhausted if she had to be there for them for 24 hours.

So, do not blame your friends. They are not at the life stage that you are at. It is not nice to vilify them if they found your child's needs exasperating, especially when they were on a vacation and had expectations of enjoying it and going with the flow.

OP, I blame you and not your friends. They have no idea what being a parent means, but you should have known better! Why would you include them in your vacation plans when you know that you will be responsible for your child and your pace will be different than yours?

Anonymous wrote:OP, did they actually *say* anything judgmental? Or are you just interpreting "stares"?

We don't have children, but we have friends with children, and we spend time with them. Their kids have had meltdowns in front of us. We've had to cut short activities/dinners to accommodate the children. We've sat in restaurants with their toddlers screaming bloody murder.

But we have never judged them. If we are guilty of staring, it is because we are just as clueless AS THEY ARE about how to make the child stop screaming.

If anything, we probably give them looks of sympathy, as in "how do you deal with this all.of.the.time???"

We aren't ignorant or naive. We know kids cry for no reason sometimes, get tired and meltdown, reach a point (especially when they are removed from their regular routine) at which they are pretty much inconsolable.

So I'm not so certain your friends were judging you. But that didn't stop you from a post wherein YOU judge all childfree/childless couples, and then PPs pile on with the judgment.

That said, you were the one who suggested the trip. You don't know if perhaps they had reservations about going on a vacation with a 2 year old. Most couples who are childfree are childfree for a reason -- it's not that they judge parents; it's that they actively choose not to have a kid because they don't want to spend 24 hours a day dealing with that kind of thing.

We do plenty of things with our friends who have children. And we love their children. We don't judge them.

But we would NEVER agree to a vacation that involved spending a few days, 24 hours a day, with them and their kids, because our vacation time is limited and precious, and we wouldn't want it to be dominated/dictated by a 2 year old.

There's no judgment. It's just a choice we make.

And to the PPs who are saying nasty things about childfree couples being envious, one of the reasons I feel like I'm leaning toward being permanently childfree is BECAUSE of the time I've spent with other people and their children and the realization that it just isn't something I want. And I simply don't believe that "because I don't want to be alone when I'm old" is a good enough reason on its own to have children. Not to mention, I know many old people who seem very lonely, despite the fact that they have adult children.

It's ridiculous to, on the one hand, get upset because you feel childfree couples are *judging* you and then return that with a bunch of judgment.

Different people make different choices. If you want to only be friends with people who think exactly like you do, then fine. Otherwise, you learn how to figure out boundaries and limitations and try to be accommodating. So maybe that only means daytrips with your childfree friends and not full blown vacations.

And if you don't think other parents will give you judgmental looks when your kid is having a meltdown, then you are naive. If anything, I think childfree people are far more sympathetic and less judgmental of parenting than other parents.

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom of two kids.

The truth is that people who do not have kids do not understand the 24/7 commitment and focus of being with children. Even if these people are very loving and enjoy kids, their interactions with children is for a very limited time. My grown up niece can take care of my kids for a couple of hours - taking them to the park or movies - but would be exhausted if she had to be there for them for 24 hours.

So, do not blame your friends. They are not at the life stage that you are at. It is not nice to vilify them if they found your child's needs exasperating, especially when they were on a vacation and had expectations of enjoying it and going with the flow.

OP, I blame you and not your friends. They have no idea what being a parent means, but you should have known better! Why would you include them in your vacation plans when you know that you will be responsible for your child and your pace will be different than yours?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They seem judgemental because they are ashamed they are barren. Try to draw up some sympathy.

OP did not say this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much accommodation did you expect them to make for your daughter? Did her nap dictate the whole day? Did every outing need to be to a "kid centered" place--like a children's museum or zoo, or were you still doing more adult activities, like skiing, visiting wineries, etc.?

With a two year old? Skiing and wineries? WTH?

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds very young.

Anonymous wrote:We decided it would be fun to take a short trip away with two couples and our 2 year old daughter. Terrible idea. Their faces and voices reek of judgment and resentment anytime we have to make a decision to accommodate our daughter (nap, food, entertainment, etc.) and they just stare at us whenever she gets cranky/fussy. I know it's hard for them to understand since they don't have kids but it's still frustrating when people you consider your friends don't even make an effort. Never again!!

Anonymous wrote:This is not because they are childless. Some of our favorite people to hang out with and vacation do not have children.

Anonymous wrote:One of our child free friends told me how much they liked my (older) children because they stayed in their room and did not bother him. I decided at that moment that's dcs did not need to spend any more time with him. He doesn't like or understand children and that is fine. But he did not need to be around mine. He meant it as a compliment but.

Anonymous wrote:With my first, I still used to travel with childless friends. We picked destinations where there would be more relaxing time so I could take my son out and play. When we did activities, we did what everyone wanted to do (which was adult obviously) but I would slip off for ten minutes or so every now and again so that my son could do what he thought was fun. If we ate out, we picked places that made everyone happy and if it wasn't kid friendly, I took food for my son. I never would have made people plan around his nap or asked them to go to kid places. It can work, but both sides have to be thoughtful and considerate. The world doesn't revolve around the child.