Anonymous
12/22/2014 08:19
Subject: Re:MCPS Teachers Not Checking or Providing Feedback on Homework - How Common is this Practice?
Anonymous wrote:There is no point to grading homework in class together as a group. This is stupid. You can't give feedback on writing by lecturing in front of the room without ever looking at the damn paper.
If the homework is basically multiple choice so the teacher is just saying a,b,c then why not just put it on-line in one of those software programs that checks the answers. If an answer was wrong an explanation could come up. The student would have immediate feedback.
I don't agree with this. It is quite common (or used to be) and useful for teachers to review the homework during class, with each student checking their own work. When I was in high school, admittedly many years ago, my math teachers would work through the problems on the board, or hand out a sheet with the problems completed, so we could check our own work. If someone couldn't understand what they had done wrong, then they approached the teacher for after- or before-school assistance.
This is a time-honored practice for everything except writing assignments. (And by that I mean essays, not short answer assignments where a few sentences might be required.) And it is writing that too often gets the short shrift in today's classroom, IMO.
Anonymous
12/22/2014 08:05
Subject: Re:MCPS Teachers Not Checking or Providing Feedback on Homework - How Common is this Practice?
Anonymous wrote:I teach and I think note taking is an incredibly important skill that needs to be practiced in middle school and high school so that students can be successful in college and in the work force. I would not expect my students to copy detailed tables etc. I think if textbooks are not provided, teachers do need to provide resources either in the form of a hard copy or on their website. Students need to have a definitive source of information in addition to their own notes. However, I would never make my lecture notes available to my students. They need to listen and take notes when I teach. They will pay attention, understand and remember the information better if they take the trouble to take good notes. Yes, sometimes this involves "copying" what I have put up on the board. When they prepare for tests and exams, I would expect them to review the text/website as well as their own notes. They should be learning how to integrate different sources of information instead of simply repeating what is in the textbook or teacher website.
Per Maryland law, every child is entitled to a Free Appropriate Public Education. The teacher above has determined that every child must master note taking proficiency before they can access the information he/she is presenting in class because he/she "will never" make the lecture notes available.
Please explain when and where in the MCPS curriculum note taking skills are taught and students must show mastery of these skills before moving upward in the curriculum? Why have you determined note taking is a mandatory prerequisite skill for your class to get information? Your job is to give students access to information not intentionally withhold it.
Anonymous
12/21/2014 19:24
Subject: Re:MCPS Teachers Not Checking or Providing Feedback on Homework - How Common is this Practice?
I was never taught how to take notes and I went to a private school. When I got to college, I just took notes in my own way using underlining, bold words, etc. I was asked by multiple teachers to share my notes with students in the class who were in a special program for students with learning disabilities. I don't think teachers should just give students notes or even outlines to fill in during class. Absent a real learning disorder, I think having students take notes in class keeps them engaged.
Anonymous
12/21/2014 19:21
Subject: MCPS Teachers Not Checking or Providing Feedback on Homework - How Common is this Practice?
Agree with PP..taking is notes is not trying to replicate everything that is on the board. It is making a personalized version that is meaningful to you. I would expect teachers to pass out (or make available on line) complex diagrams etc) but seeing it, processing it and writing notes on it is multi-sensoring learning - hearing seeing and touch. It is not at all passive copying. If that is what your child is doing they have missed an important concept.
Anonymous
12/21/2014 19:16
Subject: Re:MCPS Teachers Not Checking or Providing Feedback on Homework - How Common is this Practice?
I teach and I think note taking is an incredibly important skill that needs to be practiced in middle school and high school so that students can be successful in college and in the work force. I would not expect my students to copy detailed tables etc. I think if textbooks are not provided, teachers do need to provide resources either in the form of a hard copy or on their website. Students need to have a definitive source of information in addition to their own notes. However, I would never make my lecture notes available to my students. They need to listen and take notes when I teach. They will pay attention, understand and remember the information better if they take the trouble to take good notes. Yes, sometimes this involves "copying" what I have put up on the board. When they prepare for tests and exams, I would expect them to review the text/website as well as their own notes. They should be learning how to integrate different sources of information instead of simply repeating what is in the textbook or teacher website.
Anonymous
12/21/2014 14:02
Subject: MCPS Teachers Not Checking or Providing Feedback on Homework - How Common is this Practice?
[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]They should take notes but they should also have something given to fall back on especially if the teacher is talking non stop, going off topic and overexplain.
[/quote]
Why doesn't MCPS just fire all the teachers and just give each student a detailed packet of notes to study and then have them take a test on what they've memorized? Since teachers just serve to talk nonstop, go off topic and overexplain (WTF?).
For the people who want notes to be provided--you do know that in college students are expected to take notes during classes? And that the professors do not provide notes for the students? If teachers start providing everything for the students then you'll all be back here in a few years whining that your snowflake is failing out of college because the mean professors aren't providing notes and poor Larla just doesn't understand when she has listen to the professor and take her own notes.
Have you ever sat in a meeting at work taking notes so that you know what is expected of you? Guess where you learned and practiced that skill?
I seriously fear for the next generation of our workforce. Maybe you all will get lucky and by then mommies will be hired alongside their children to assist them with anything that's too hard for them to do on their own. [/quote]
[b]Wow. This is a true example of the disconnect between MCPS's understanding of today's workforce and the skills the next generation needs.
As a financial officer of a multimillion dollar corporation, time is money in today's workforce. Meetings have to be productive and meaningful within a short timeframe. Would any employee be expected to copy balance sheet and income statement data that is reviewed at a meeting? No. The officers at the table make over six figure income so the data they need to do their jobs and to make decisions are just presented to them. The data is available in hard copy format at the meeting and in computer files for later reference. The notes they take at meetings are specific for what they need to do, not copying information that someone else has presented. Copying is not task specific nor a productive method for doing business.
PP - your distain for your job comes through loud and clear when you have to revert to name calling when making an argument. Your teaching style and knowledge of today's workforce is behind the times so do everyone a favor and retire.[/b]
Schools are not businesses. Treating education like businesses has weakened our education system. Your employees are not learning information the way students are. Employees at a meeting already understand the information being presented. Reviewing is completely different than learning. Your employees presumably know how to do their jobs. Students are learning how to do theirs.
Just curious-- where did the PP you quoted say they are a teacher? I reread and didn't see name calling or where they said they are a teacher.
[/quote]
Why doesn't MCPS just fire all the teachers and just give each student a detailed packet of notes to study and then have them take a test on what they've memorized? Since teachers just serve to talk nonstop, go off topic and overexplain (WTF?).
For the people who want notes to be provided--you do know that in college students are expected to take notes during classes? And that the professors do not provide notes for the students? If teachers start providing everything for the students then you'll all be back here in a few years whining that your snowflake is failing out of college because the mean professors aren't providing notes and poor Larla just doesn't understand when she has listen to the professor and take her own notes.
Have you ever sat in a meeting at work taking notes so that you know what is expected of you? Guess where you learned and practiced that skill?
I seriously fear for the next generation of our workforce. Maybe you all will get lucky and by then mommies will be hired alongside their children to assist them with anything that's too hard for them to do on their own. [/quote]
[b]Wow. This is a true example of the disconnect between MCPS's understanding of today's workforce and the skills the next generation needs.
As a financial officer of a multimillion dollar corporation, time is money in today's workforce. Meetings have to be productive and meaningful within a short timeframe. Would any employee be expected to copy balance sheet and income statement data that is reviewed at a meeting? No. The officers at the table make over six figure income so the data they need to do their jobs and to make decisions are just presented to them. The data is available in hard copy format at the meeting and in computer files for later reference. The notes they take at meetings are specific for what they need to do, not copying information that someone else has presented. Copying is not task specific nor a productive method for doing business.
PP - your distain for your job comes through loud and clear when you have to revert to name calling when making an argument. Your teaching style and knowledge of today's workforce is behind the times so do everyone a favor and retire.[/b]
Schools are not businesses. Treating education like businesses has weakened our education system. Your employees are not learning information the way students are. Employees at a meeting already understand the information being presented. Reviewing is completely different than learning. Your employees presumably know how to do their jobs. Students are learning how to do theirs.
Just curious-- where did the PP you quoted say they are a teacher? I reread and didn't see name calling or where they said they are a teacher.
Anonymous
12/21/2014 13:05
Subject: MCPS Teachers Not Checking or Providing Feedback on Homework - How Common is this Practice?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
However, copying (by hand) can be a very productive method for retaining information, i.e., learning. And learning is what schools are about -- not doing business.
Passive copying by hand is not considered a best teaching practice. It is the least effective method for retaining information.
Considered by whom?
Anonymous
12/21/2014 12:57
Subject: MCPS Teachers Not Checking or Providing Feedback on Homework - How Common is this Practice?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Wow. This is a true example of the disconnect between MCPS's understanding of today's workforce and the skills the next generation needs.
As a financial officer of a multimillion dollar corporation, time is money in today's workforce. Meetings have to be productive and meaningful within a short timeframe. Would any employee be expected to copy balance sheet and income statement data that is reviewed at a meeting? No. The officers at the table make over six figure income so the data they need to do their jobs and to make decisions are just presented to them. The data is available in hard copy format at the meeting and in computer files for later reference. The notes they take at meetings are specific for what they need to do, not copying information that someone else has presented. Copying is not task specific nor a productive method for doing business.
PP - your distain for your job comes through loud and clear when you have to revert to name calling when making an argument. Your teaching style and knowledge of today's workforce is behind the times so do everyone a favor and retire.
However, copying (by hand) can be a very productive method for retaining information, i.e., learning. And learning is what schools are about -- not doing business.
Passive copying by hand is not considered a best teaching practice. It is the least effective method for retaining information.
Anonymous
12/21/2014 12:33
Subject: MCPS Teachers Not Checking or Providing Feedback on Homework - How Common is this Practice?
Anonymous wrote:
Wow. This is a true example of the disconnect between MCPS's understanding of today's workforce and the skills the next generation needs.
As a financial officer of a multimillion dollar corporation, time is money in today's workforce. Meetings have to be productive and meaningful within a short timeframe. Would any employee be expected to copy balance sheet and income statement data that is reviewed at a meeting? No. The officers at the table make over six figure income so the data they need to do their jobs and to make decisions are just presented to them. The data is available in hard copy format at the meeting and in computer files for later reference. The notes they take at meetings are specific for what they need to do, not copying information that someone else has presented. Copying is not task specific nor a productive method for doing business.
PP - your distain for your job comes through loud and clear when you have to revert to name calling when making an argument. Your teaching style and knowledge of today's workforce is behind the times so do everyone a favor and retire.
However, copying (by hand) can be a very productive method for retaining information, i.e., learning. And learning is what schools are about -- not doing business.
Anonymous
12/21/2014 12:31
Subject: MCPS Teachers Not Checking or Providing Feedback on Homework - How Common is this Practice?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They should take notes but they should also have something given to fall back on especially if the teacher is talking non stop, going off topic and overexplain.
Why doesn't MCPS just fire all the teachers and just give each student a detailed packet of notes to study and then have them take a test on what they've memorized? Since teachers just serve to talk nonstop, go off topic and overexplain (WTF?).
For the people who want notes to be provided--you do know that in college students are expected to take notes during classes? And that the professors do not provide notes for the students? If teachers start providing everything for the students then you'll all be back here in a few years whining that your snowflake is failing out of college because the mean professors aren't providing notes and poor Larla just doesn't understand when she has listen to the professor and take her own notes.
Have you ever sat in a meeting at work taking notes so that you know what is expected of you? Guess where you learned and practiced that skill?
I seriously fear for the next generation of our workforce. Maybe you all will get lucky and by then mommies will be hired alongside their children to assist them with anything that's too hard for them to do on their own.
Wow. This is a true example of the disconnect between MCPS's understanding of today's workforce and the skills the next generation needs.
As a financial officer of a multimillion dollar corporation, time is money in today's workforce. Meetings have to be productive and meaningful within a short timeframe. Would any employee be expected to copy balance sheet and income statement data that is reviewed at a meeting? No. The officers at the table make over six figure income so the data they need to do their jobs and to make decisions are just presented to them. The data is available in hard copy format at the meeting and in computer files for later reference. The notes they take at meetings are specific for what they need to do, not copying information that someone else has presented. Copying is not task specific nor a productive method for doing business.
PP - your distain for your job comes through loud and clear when you have to revert to name calling when making an argument. Your teaching style and knowledge of today's workforce is behind the times so do everyone a favor and retire.
Anonymous
12/21/2014 12:09
Subject: Re:MCPS Teachers Not Checking or Providing Feedback on Homework - How Common is this Practice?
No one is saying that students don't have to take notes. No one is saying that teachers do not have limited time to spend on helping each child. However there should be best teaching practices to encourage teachers to make the most of the limited time available per class and the resources they have available.
Having kids copy Promethean Board slides is not a good utilization of class time and the kids are NOT practicing note taking skills. The kids are just collecting as much information as they could be provided if the slides were handed to them or posted on Edline. Copying is a mindless task in which the students are not engaged because they are rushing to write down information before the slide is switched. If they write slow, they either miss the information or the teacher and class has to wait for a student to catch up.
The skill of note taking is actually going deeper and personalizing the information into explanations so the student fully understands the concepts. When a child is rushing to copy information that basically could be found in a textbook (if there is one for the subject) is the in-class time reinforcing the curriculum? Not really.
Teachers could make better use of class time if students have hard copies of the Promethean slides or know how to retrieve them outside of class. Then they could move faster through the material in class. Students would practice note taking skills by highlighting key concepts that the teacher elaborates on and making annotations to explain more in depth the concepts presented in the slides. The timed saved could be better utilized for kids to ask and answer questions or practice the concepts discussed in class.
A math teacher this year who uses this strategy has on average 15 minutes of class time for kids to begin their homework. She visits each child during that time to check how they are progressing. If a child is struggling or she sees a group of children struggling, she then has time to reteach and reinforce before kids do the rest of the problems on their own at home.
A past science teacher who used this strategy with my child would give the notes to the class, quickly explain them, and then there was class time to reinforce the concepts each day in a lab. The students had what they needed to study from for the test but the material was continuously reinforced by hands on activities in the labs.
When I was in college, a similar best teaching practice was available at my University 25 years ago via Kinkos. Class notes were available at Kinkos for purchase, I brought them to class and highlighted and wrote on them during the lecture.
At work, it is standard practice to have all power point presentations either available as handouts or posted online to maximize the best use of time. No one copies information that can be easily provided for them as reference. Employees, however, do take notes regarding answers to questions and the discussion that takes place to further the ideas and productivity of the meeting.
Having kids copy information is not teaching. It's easy to do and it takes up classroom time but it is not a best teaching practice. Anyone can standup and read to a class. A skilled teacher would make time to check for understanding and allow for classroom time for re-teaching before a child is assessed.
Having kids copy Promethean Board slides is not a good utilization of class time and the kids are NOT practicing note taking skills. The kids are just collecting as much information as they could be provided if the slides were handed to them or posted on Edline. Copying is a mindless task in which the students are not engaged because they are rushing to write down information before the slide is switched. If they write slow, they either miss the information or the teacher and class has to wait for a student to catch up.
The skill of note taking is actually going deeper and personalizing the information into explanations so the student fully understands the concepts. When a child is rushing to copy information that basically could be found in a textbook (if there is one for the subject) is the in-class time reinforcing the curriculum? Not really.
Teachers could make better use of class time if students have hard copies of the Promethean slides or know how to retrieve them outside of class. Then they could move faster through the material in class. Students would practice note taking skills by highlighting key concepts that the teacher elaborates on and making annotations to explain more in depth the concepts presented in the slides. The timed saved could be better utilized for kids to ask and answer questions or practice the concepts discussed in class.
A math teacher this year who uses this strategy has on average 15 minutes of class time for kids to begin their homework. She visits each child during that time to check how they are progressing. If a child is struggling or she sees a group of children struggling, she then has time to reteach and reinforce before kids do the rest of the problems on their own at home.
A past science teacher who used this strategy with my child would give the notes to the class, quickly explain them, and then there was class time to reinforce the concepts each day in a lab. The students had what they needed to study from for the test but the material was continuously reinforced by hands on activities in the labs.
When I was in college, a similar best teaching practice was available at my University 25 years ago via Kinkos. Class notes were available at Kinkos for purchase, I brought them to class and highlighted and wrote on them during the lecture.
At work, it is standard practice to have all power point presentations either available as handouts or posted online to maximize the best use of time. No one copies information that can be easily provided for them as reference. Employees, however, do take notes regarding answers to questions and the discussion that takes place to further the ideas and productivity of the meeting.
Having kids copy information is not teaching. It's easy to do and it takes up classroom time but it is not a best teaching practice. Anyone can standup and read to a class. A skilled teacher would make time to check for understanding and allow for classroom time for re-teaching before a child is assessed.
Anonymous
12/21/2014 08:01
Subject: MCPS Teachers Not Checking or Providing Feedback on Homework - How Common is this Practice?
My kids have text books and we mostly use on line resources. It is great to be able to look at several explanations/examples and you find one that clicks for you.
Anonymous
12/21/2014 07:44
Subject: Re:MCPS Teachers Not Checking or Providing Feedback on Homework - How Common is this Practice?
Anonymous wrote:
I feel really badly for the teachers in MCPS. They are handed a crap curriculum, forced to use it and then have to face the parents.
I too think children should take notes, but I understand the PP"s point. In her point she is using high school as an example, in my college 20 years ago, we had the ability to print out presentations the night before and take notes on the presentations.
I think the kids should have a TEXTBOOK for God's sakes, my son in Fifth grade has never had a textbook. I remember going home and looking at a sample problem and reading text to solve math problems.
The pp has given us valuable insight into the major disconnect between the central office and staff.
In fifth grade? I don't remember a math textbook until Algebra I.
Anonymous
12/20/2014 23:57
Subject: Re:MCPS Teachers Not Checking or Providing Feedback on Homework - How Common is this Practice?
Anonymous wrote:With the new 2.0 curriculum, writing effects all subjects across the board. This is the 2nd year Math 2.0 has been introduced for High School and there is a lot more written explanations involved in Algebra 2.0 and Geometry 2.0 than under the old curriculum.
It is frustrating to see a child with 100% homework completion turn around and repeatedly fail the assessments. The teacher is not looking at the child's individual assignments before the tests so the "Practice and Prep" is useless. There are no online notes, textbook, or answer key for parents to even help their child at home.
When I went in for meetings to see what could be done and what resources could be gathered to help my child, the first answer is "perhaps this course is not right for your child." Did they realize my child was an A math student in the previous course at another school? What course do they think is suitable?
There are a number of serious problems in MCPS:
1) Teachers who cut corners with teaching - whether that is because MCPS micromanages them via meetings or they just clock out at 2:30 when school is dismissed doesn't negate the fact that their core responsibility for teaching the kids is being neglected
2) Lack of resources for parents and teachers and unequal resources throughout the county - some schools have more resources than others when it comes to the new curriculum; some schools get the training and materials while others are still waiting for instruction; there are no resources for parents to offer extra support for their child at home. This is a central office problem and no one from the central office is going to the schools to check whether schools are meeting the standards for the new curriculum. The Board of Education should be looking into why the central office is so hands off helping schools with rolling out a new curriculum and the Board of Education should be investigating whether students are better than before after 3 years of the 2.0 rollout.
3) Providing class notes. study guides, and answer keys is just good teaching practices, why don't all teachers do this? - At our high school, every classroom has a Promethean Board. This is a $5,000 piece of equipment that projects the teacher's presentation/work examples during class. Why aren't these computer files accessible online? Why does valuable class time get wasted for kids to copy down information that could easily just be given to them via the internet? For some kids, the act of copying is a mindless task that keeps them from being fully engaged in the instructional process. Couldn't the class run smoother and faster if the kids could just sit back and listen knowing that the notes will be provided as backup? If the notes were provided the night before or copied at the beginning of class, couldn't the kids do annotations on them during class? If teachers would utilize the Promethean Board to it's full capacity, wouldn't that free up class time for kids to start their homework and for teachers to go around answer individual questions and glossary check if the students are on track?
4) MCPS has turned into this oversized, wasteful government bureaucracy where people clock in and clock out but does anyone believe in its mission to teach kids? To say "I don't have time to look at every child's rough draft" or "I don't have time to check homework" or the central office doesn't make onsite visits to see what is happening in the schools are examples of the bureaucratic mindset in education. The goal is not to help students be successful and be prepared for life after high school but to punch in and punch out to earn their paycheck.
I'm sure there are many problems that other PP's can come up with so feel free to add to my list.
I feel really badly for the teachers in MCPS. They are handed a crap curriculum, forced to use it and then have to face the parents.
I too think children should take notes, but I understand the PP"s point. In her point she is using high school as an example, in my college 20 years ago, we had the ability to print out presentations the night before and take notes on the presentations.
I think the kids should have a TEXTBOOK for God's sakes, my son in Fifth grade has never had a textbook. I remember going home and looking at a sample problem and reading text to solve math problems.
The pp has given us valuable insight into the major disconnect between the central office and staff.
Anonymous
12/20/2014 14:56
Subject: MCPS Teachers Not Checking or Providing Feedback on Homework - How Common is this Practice?
Anonymous wrote:Handing students notes is the same as handing them a detailed handout with tons of instruction and direction.
That is to say, it is useless. You have to walk them through every little word. Students should be taking notes and asking questions. They need to be actively engaged in their learning process, or they will not learn.
That being said, teachers should be giving regular and timely feedback. How about we train teachers better, provide stronger mentoring programs, and cap the class size at 18?
We know what needs to be done to make things actually work. When will it happen?
But then the EdTech and VC communities wouldn't make money!
Small class sizes are the only proven thing that works yet it's not even on the agenda because of vested, big money interests like those that sold the Promethean boards & chrome books to MCPS.