Anonymous
Post 12/11/2014 15:58     Subject: Re:What is leave abuse?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That makes no sense. If you've accrued leave, it's not "abuse" to take every Friday off assuming it doesn't affect your productivity. It's your leave. Abusing sick leave is a whole different issue.


If you call in sick every friday, it is leave abuse. I work for a private company; I do not get sick leave and vacation, but rather PTO. Much harder to abuse that. For me leave abuse would be taking leave in 15 minute intervals when my manager wanted to talk to me .



But callng in sick is sick leave. AL (at least in my DHs agency) is his to use however he chooses. We knew an Agent that took almost every Friday off for a year right before he retired. He earned that leave. That's not abuse.


Why would he do that when you are able to cash in annual leave when you retire at your hourly rate plus LEAP...
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2014 15:19     Subject: What is leave abuse?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Leave abuse means a suspicious pattern of calling in sick on certain days (usually Monday or Friday) or asking for time off for inconsequential matters. In other words, taking leave you do not need.


This is absurd, asking leave for inconsequential matters? Leave us yours to take for whatever reason you want. And, who would judge whether a request is consequential enough?


No, leave is not yours to take whenever you want. Sick leave is for when you are genuinely ill. Annual leave is granted for annual vacations, planned in advance, in accord with when the employer can spare employees without detriment to the business mission. There is no type of leave that you can take at will, in drips and drabs, for your own personal convenience whenever you want. Leave is a privilege, not a right.

Moreover, employees are granted a number of leave hours per year or per pay period. When employees routinely use up all those hours, plus more, they are abusing leave if they do so without any justification such as chronic illness.

I have employees who ask for leave, every single week, for things like:

Preparation for the church picnic
Attend a personal growth seminar
Holiday shopping
Spa appointment
Baking


If all these requests were granted, nothing would get done. That's leave abuse. If you want to take a mental health day once a year, fine. But once a week? Every Friday and Monday? Leave every Wednesday after lunch? Come in late every Tuesday morning?

I'm not talking about FMLA, chronic illness, doctor's appointments, or alternate work schedules. I'm talking about clear patterns of abuse.




Wow, I wouldn't want to work for you. Leave is yours to take for WHATEVER reason you want and it is none of your manager's business. Now, I am assuming the requests are approved but that is a different matter. As long as your time off does not interfere with your work, it is yours to use. You sound like a terrible manager.


+1. I wonder if PP denies requests based on her feelings about why it was used. So...if an employee wants to use a day of annual to chaperone her kid's field trip, will PP deny it becuase it is not an "annual vacation." I have been a manager for over a decade and I have never asked why an employee is taking annual. Most will tell me if it is a vacation or something like that, but it is none of my business if they have the leave and the work is covered.


+2 And it might not kill PP to take a personal growth seminar. And I hope they didn't post that from their work computer- what leave category would apply?
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2014 12:21     Subject: What is leave abuse?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Leave abuse means a suspicious pattern of calling in sick on certain days (usually Monday or Friday) or asking for time off for inconsequential matters. In other words, taking leave you do not need.


This is absurd, asking leave for inconsequential matters? Leave us yours to take for whatever reason you want. And, who would judge whether a request is consequential enough?


No, leave is not yours to take whenever you want. Sick leave is for when you are genuinely ill. Annual leave is granted for annual vacations, planned in advance, in accord with when the employer can spare employees without detriment to the business mission. There is no type of leave that you can take at will, in drips and drabs, for your own personal convenience whenever you want. Leave is a privilege, not a right.

Moreover, employees are granted a number of leave hours per year or per pay period. When employees routinely use up all those hours, plus more, they are abusing leave if they do so without any justification such as chronic illness.

I have employees who ask for leave, every single week, for things like:

Preparation for the church picnic
Attend a personal growth seminar
Holiday shopping
Spa appointment
Baking


If all these requests were granted, nothing would get done. That's leave abuse. If you want to take a mental health day once a year, fine. But once a week? Every Friday and Monday? Leave every Wednesday after lunch? Come in late every Tuesday morning?

I'm not talking about FMLA, chronic illness, doctor's appointments, or alternate work schedules. I'm talking about clear patterns of abuse.


If people are requesting sick leave in order to do the above, then yes that's leave abuse. If they're requesting vacation time, then I have to ask how do you even know what they're planning to do with that vacation time? It's none of your business whether they want to volunteer at the church bake sale, clean out their house, or go on a cruise with their vacation time - you shouldn't be asking or creating in environment in which people feel compelled to tell you what they're doing on vacation. In the WebTA interface, that info is not required.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2014 12:15     Subject: What is leave abuse?
Annual leave, ie - vacation time, can be taken for just about any reason as long as that time is approved. It's really no one's business what you do with your vacation - go shopping, stay home and watch TV, read the Economist, renovate your kitchen, care for your kids when school's out. No one cares.

Sick leave has certain parameters on it - for use when you're sick or incapacitated or caring for a family member who is. If you're calling out sick every Monday, chances are it's leave abuse or if you call out sick on Black Friday so you can go shopping, that's definitely leave abuse. You should request a vacation day on Black Friday if you don't plan to be in the office.

The most common type of leave abuse though is being late every day and not honestly documenting that in your T&A.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2014 12:12     Subject: What is leave abuse?
06:39, have you considered moving to a non-managerial position? Because you must seriously suck as a boss. I can only imagine how your staff loathe working for you.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2014 12:05     Subject: What is leave abuse?
Anonymous wrote:Taking Family and Medical emergency leave for having cosmetic plastic surgery


Huh, FMLA? Why? I think most elective surgery is covered under sick leave directly without need to invoke FMLA.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2014 11:39     Subject: Re:What is leave abuse?
Anonymous wrote:As an employee, when another employee is constantly using annual or sick leave, while legal, it often falls to me and my coworkers to handle a larger workload so that the work of the office gets done. That is a form of leave abuse when it impacts your coworkers.


PP Fed manager here. Fair point, but that is your manager's issue. If you feel that you are constantly picking up the slack for someone who uses a lot of leave, that's a management issue and you should address with them.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2014 11:36     Subject: What is leave abuse?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Leave abuse means a suspicious pattern of calling in sick on certain days (usually Monday or Friday) or asking for time off for inconsequential matters. In other words, taking leave you do not need.


This is absurd, asking leave for inconsequential matters? Leave us yours to take for whatever reason you want. And, who would judge whether a request is consequential enough?


No, leave is not yours to take whenever you want. Sick leave is for when you are genuinely ill. Annual leave is granted for annual vacations, planned in advance, in accord with when the employer can spare employees without detriment to the business mission. There is no type of leave that you can take at will, in drips and drabs, for your own personal convenience whenever you want. Leave is a privilege, not a right.

Moreover, employees are granted a number of leave hours per year or per pay period. When employees routinely use up all those hours, plus more, they are abusing leave if they do so without any justification such as chronic illness.

I have employees who ask for leave, every single week, for things like:

Preparation for the church picnic
Attend a personal growth seminar
Holiday shopping
Spa appointment
Baking


If all these requests were granted, nothing would get done. That's leave abuse. If you want to take a mental health day once a year, fine. But once a week? Every Friday and Monday? Leave every Wednesday after lunch? Come in late every Tuesday morning?

I'm not talking about FMLA, chronic illness, doctor's appointments, or alternate work schedules. I'm talking about clear patterns of abuse.




Wow, I wouldn't want to work for you. Leave is yours to take for WHATEVER reason you want and it is none of your manager's business. Now, I am assuming the requests are approved but that is a different matter. As long as your time off does not interfere with your work, it is yours to use. You sound like a terrible manager.


+1. I wonder if PP denies requests based on her feelings about why it was used. So...if an employee wants to use a day of annual to chaperone her kid's field trip, will PP deny it becuase it is not an "annual vacation." I have been a manager for over a decade and I have never asked why an employee is taking annual. Most will tell me if it is a vacation or something like that, but it is none of my business if they have the leave and the work is covered.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2014 11:19     Subject: Re:What is leave abuse?
Anonymous wrote:As an employee, when another employee is constantly using annual or sick leave, while legal, it often falls to me and my coworkers to handle a larger workload so that the work of the office gets done. That is a form of leave abuse when it impacts your coworkers.


This is an issue of bad management, not leave abuse. If scheduled in advance, managers should be able to allocate work in a manner that accounts for the use of earned leave.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2014 11:13     Subject: What is leave abuse?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Leave abuse means a suspicious pattern of calling in sick on certain days (usually Monday or Friday) or asking for time off for inconsequential matters. In other words, taking leave you do not need.


This is absurd, asking leave for inconsequential matters? Leave us yours to take for whatever reason you want. And, who would judge whether a request is consequential enough?


No, leave is not yours to take whenever you want. Sick leave is for when you are genuinely ill. Annual leave is granted for annual vacations, planned in advance, in accord with when the employer can spare employees without detriment to the business mission. There is no type of leave that you can take at will, in drips and drabs, for your own personal convenience whenever you want. Leave is a privilege, not a right.

Moreover, employees are granted a number of leave hours per year or per pay period. When employees routinely use up all those hours, plus more, they are abusing leave if they do so without any justification such as chronic illness.

I have employees who ask for leave, every single week, for things like:

Preparation for the church picnic
Attend a personal growth seminar
Holiday shopping
Spa appointment
Baking


If all these requests were granted, nothing would get done. That's leave abuse. If you want to take a mental health day once a year, fine. But once a week? Every Friday and Monday? Leave every Wednesday after lunch? Come in late every Tuesday morning?

I'm not talking about FMLA, chronic illness, doctor's appointments, or alternate work schedules. I'm talking about clear patterns of abuse.




glad i dont have you as my manager, bc you are full of it. i don't have to justify anything for annual leave. if i submit for AL, and it's approved, i can do whatever i damn well please. shop, spa, bake, anything.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2014 11:08     Subject: What is leave abuse?
My agency has what is known as a liberal leave policy, so in general, you are entitled to use your leave so long as it does not disrupt agency operations.

I used to work in a division handling labor law issues. Leave abuse (especially when dealing with an employee covered by a bargaining agreement) is a tricky area. Some examples of the types of things that would get an employee flagged for leave abuse:

-Frequent use of annual leave not scheduled in advance.
-Calling out sick on a routine basis immediately before or after a federal holiday/weekend (without a known chronic medical condition)
-Failing to follow agency policies re: calling in to advise your manager you're using leave (pretty much going AWOL)
-Routinely going into negative leave balances (a certain amount of advanced leave is permitted, but not on a routine basis)

Basically, you have to be so egregious with your leave use, that it is inexcusable. Otherwise, managers are not allowed to probe into your leave use unless you take 3 consecutive days of sick leave.

Employees who are flagged for leave abuse generally have a variety of other personnel issues from what I've experienced. Productive employees do not get questioned too much about leave.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2014 10:59     Subject: What is leave abuse?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Leave abuse means a suspicious pattern of calling in sick on certain days (usually Monday or Friday) or asking for time off for inconsequential matters. In other words, taking leave you do not need.


This is absurd, asking leave for inconsequential matters? Leave us yours to take for whatever reason you want. And, who would judge whether a request is consequential enough?


No, leave is not yours to take whenever you want. Sick leave is for when you are genuinely ill. Annual leave is granted for annual vacations, planned in advance, in accord with when the employer can spare employees without detriment to the business mission. There is no type of leave that you can take at will, in drips and drabs, for your own personal convenience whenever you want. Leave is a privilege, not a right.

Moreover, employees are granted a number of leave hours per year or per pay period. When employees routinely use up all those hours, plus more, they are abusing leave if they do so without any justification such as chronic illness.

I have employees who ask for leave, every single week, for things like:

Preparation for the church picnic
Attend a personal growth seminar
Holiday shopping
Spa appointment
Baking


If all these requests were granted, nothing would get done. That's leave abuse. If you want to take a mental health day once a year, fine. But once a week? Every Friday and Monday? Leave every Wednesday after lunch? Come in late every Tuesday morning?

I'm not talking about FMLA, chronic illness, doctor's appointments, or alternate work schedules. I'm talking about clear patterns of abuse.




That's funny. Our CBA says that Leave is a right, not a privilege.

Of course abuse exists, but it's probably really hard to prove in most cases that aren't egregious. I would think that if one were denied annual leave and then called in sick for days that were denied, and did this repeatedly, that leave abuse could be suspected.

I don't think I've ever been denied leave.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2014 10:55     Subject: Re:What is leave abuse?
As an employee, when another employee is constantly using annual or sick leave, while legal, it often falls to me and my coworkers to handle a larger workload so that the work of the office gets done. That is a form of leave abuse when it impacts your coworkers.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2014 10:11     Subject: What is leave abuse?
Taking Family and Medical emergency leave for having cosmetic plastic surgery
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2014 10:10     Subject: What is leave abuse?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Leave abuse means a suspicious pattern of calling in sick on certain days (usually Monday or Friday) or asking for time off for inconsequential matters. In other words, taking leave you do not need.


This is absurd, asking leave for inconsequential matters? Leave us yours to take for whatever reason you want. And, who would judge whether a request is consequential enough?


No, leave is not yours to take whenever you want. Sick leave is for when you are genuinely ill. Annual leave is granted for annual vacations, planned in advance, in accord with when the employer can spare employees without detriment to the business mission. There is no type of leave that you can take at will, in drips and drabs, for your own personal convenience whenever you want. Leave is a privilege, not a right.

Moreover, employees are granted a number of leave hours per year or per pay period. When employees routinely use up all those hours, plus more, they are abusing leave if they do so without any justification such as chronic illness.

I have employees who ask for leave, every single week, for things like:

Preparation for the church picnic
Attend a personal growth seminar
Holiday shopping
Spa appointment
Baking


If all these requests were granted, nothing would get done. That's leave abuse. If you want to take a mental health day once a year, fine. But once a week? Every Friday and Monday? Leave every Wednesday after lunch? Come in late every Tuesday morning?

I'm not talking about FMLA, chronic illness, doctor's appointments, or alternate work schedules. I'm talking about clear patterns of abuse.





You have to be kidding!!! As long as I get the leave requests in advance, I could not care less what my folks use their annual leave for. After all, if I REALLY need that person, I can deny the request. But my folks ususally work out coverage among themselves before I get the request. I wonder what your subs think about you as a manager.


Signed,

Manager at an agency that is regularly cited as one of the best to work for.


+1, I'm a fed manager as well, and I could care less about what my employees use their annual leave for as long as they ask for it in advance and have a leave balance to use. 6:39, you are crazy!