Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ We're two income, one child. We make very good money. We do NOT spend money on fancy kitchens, bathrooms, computers (we have old laptops and iPhone 5s because we had been using old phones), haven't been on a vacation ever (to include a honeymoon).

Know where our money goes? Housing and childcare. They eat up about 70% of our take home pay.

Hang in there, this used to be us. But kids grow up and mortgages get paid off, and then you start banking some real cash.

yeah, we don't make $200k....we're low 6 figures together. I don't see a way out of it in this area - you cannot live anywhere convenient to work and I won't compromise location (proximity of work/home means more time with my child). It's impossible here unless both people are in the high 100s or more if you want to live close in/near metro

Anonymous wrote:^^ We're two income, one child. We make very good money. We do NOT spend money on fancy kitchens, bathrooms, computers (we have old laptops and iPhone 5s because we had been using old phones), haven't been on a vacation ever (to include a honeymoon).

Know where our money goes? Housing and childcare. They eat up about 70% of our take home pay.

Hang in there, this used to be us. But kids grow up and mortgages get paid off, and then you start banking some real cash.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm with you, OP. And I believe it starts with fair maternity and paternity leave. And changing the culture surrounding taking time to raise your infants.

Yes. I'm so damn sick of it all. I wish I had leaned out in college and my early 20s. I wish I had gotten a job that would be easy to have children with. I wish we'd stop telling women to try harder. What's the point? So you'll never get to see your kids? So you'll work at the rat race forever? With no maternity leave beyond 12 weeks unpaid? I guess I thought as a naive 18 year old that by the time I worked my way up the ladder that corporations would have changed. nope.

I worked my ass off for 20 years, and now I'm financially secure. I was able to see my kids, though of course I had long weeks, and am still married, 18 years later, to my first husband. It's certainly possible, you just have to be content with the $200K job and not the $500K job. And work for years just to pay the nanny, knowing that if you're frugal and don't keep buying new cars and houses, you will triumph.

^^ We're two income, one child. We make very good money. We do NOT spend money on fancy kitchens, bathrooms, computers (we have old laptops and iPhone 5s because we had been using old phones), haven't been on a vacation ever (to include a honeymoon).

Know where our money goes? Housing and childcare. They eat up about 70% of our take home pay.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm tired of the whining by people who chose to become parents. Did you think life would stay the same? No one owes you a power career or special accommodations. Decide which one means more to you and spend your time accordingly. No one is forcing you to spread yourself so thin.

Dumbass, if parents were independently wealthy and didn't need to earn money to live and support their kids, I'm sure we'd all choose not to work so hard.

But unlike DINKs, parents need to earn even more money for daycare, preschool, college, etc.

You sound like a typical immature person who lacks empathy and can't understand anything unless it is personally happening to you. You are what is wrong with America. I am happy you're not procreating so hopefully we'll have a few people like you in the future.

People are also spending a lot more money on STUFF. Fancy kitchens and bathrooms, computers and cell phones, big vacations. I think HGTV did many people in. Back when I was growing up no one spent money on a kitchen.

This thread reminds me of a story. Back in the early 90's when I was newly married, childless and starting my career I had lunch with two professional colleagues, both women about 10 years older than me. The subject of opportunities and barriers for women in the workplace came up and I remember saying that I felt I was treated just as well as my male coworkers and didn't see any signs of differential treatment. My two lunch companions shot each other a knowing glance and rolled their eyes, saying "You don't have kids, right?"

Suffice to say, they were right and I was naive.

Well, the article is obviously saying it doesn't matter whether you lean in or out, you just aren't likely to get to the top. I think that is definitely true. And I also think a large part of it is attributable to, as said upthread, the corporate culture has little value for middle aged women. Men like to work with young professional women or their peers. In my experience, this makes it harder for young professional men than women until they are about 35 and then it is harder for the women. Much harder. They aren't considered attractive/young and good at their job, a triple threat by goodness! but rather just an old lady. It really is rampant sexism but not the kind that the media or we think is sexy so it goes unremarked upon. Its not being oogled or hit on or passed over because of your sex, its being put out to pasture and ignored. That is really so often the issue.

Trust me, we are nothing like China and India. I personally believe the key to a balanced life is finding the right partner. If you look for a partner that is willing to work with yo so you can both reach your personal goals then life is still busy but much more bearable. For example, I chose to work so my husband and I split all household and childcare 50/50. In fact, my husband does more than me at this time because my career is in a busy stage. In the past I did more at home because he needed more time for his career. A ton of communication is needed to make it work.

Anonymous wrote:I'm with you, OP. And I believe it starts with fair maternity and paternity leave. And changing the culture surrounding taking time to raise your infants.

This will never happen in a country where the riuling elite wants to treat us like people in China and India.

Anonymous wrote:The reality is that no one, male or female, is going to make it into the c-suite working 8 hours a day. That's life in the corporate world. Everyone has a choice about what type of work-life balance they are comfortable with, and they should make a decision based on their personal goals. It is ridiculous to think someone "owes" you something or to get bitter because you can't have it all. No one can have it all... Make your decision and embrace it.

I agree. There are only so many hours in a day, you choose your priorities. Sometimes I skip out on housework or laundry because I'd rather take the kids somewhere fun. I don't then come home and blame my house for the fact that I didn't have enough time to clean and have family time. I knew how much time I had and what my options are and I made a choice.

I am lucky enough to have that same choice in the workplace. I can choose to spend my time at work, climbing the ladder, getting promotions and raises, etc. Or, I can choose to go home at quitting time and spend time with my kids. That's an amazing luxury. No one owes me a corner office if I choose not to make work my #1 priority.

Anonymous wrote:Waaaahhh! God gave me a uterus and it's not fair I can have kids and it puts me back careerwise. Sorry, less empathy here for the "power woman" whining about not being able to "lean in" and more for the Walmart Mom who must subsist on a minimum wage to support her kids.

Walmart woman could have made the same choices I made. No sympathy. Shouldn't have had kids (plural).

Waaaahhh! God gave me a uterus and it's not fair I can have kids and it puts me back careerwise. Sorry, less empathy here for the "power woman" whining about not being able to "lean in" and more for the Walmart Mom who must subsist on a minimum wage to support her kids.

I blame biology. As long as women have babies they will be held back in a world where men make the rule.

What are the options, ladies? Everyone is expected to work and have a career, but when you have a baby, the bulk of child rearing duties falls on you. You are the ones who get pregnant, give birth, nurse or pump...and eventually you start taking more and more of these duties. The option to SAHM is fraught with uncertainties. Successful SAHMs are the ones who have had their own money saved, have a good marriage, married to a good earner, do not work in an corporate environment and will be well provided for even if they get divorced.

If a woman continues to work, she is essentially on "mommy track" or has an incredible support system (parents/ILs staying with you and providing care, maids and housekeepers).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I think the previous posts are missing the point. The system is totally rigged. Even if you lean in until you fall over (which is what I did with two small kids), women will continue to be treated like second class citizens at firms and companies. This is not about work life balance, this is about treating women professionally, recognizing covert biases, and support women's professional growth -- like they do for men.

This is my favorite recent post on this subject:

http://abovethelaw.com/2014/10/stop-treating-women-lawyers-like-crap/

That hasn't been my experience. I have exactly the same pay, status and accomplishments of my male coworkers. The falling behind will happen when I get pregnant and have to stop working 10 hour days (so I can actually see these kids!). In America we're so pro-corporation and fuck the individual. We work our asses off so that a corporation can make $$$ but when we want a family they're pissed off. I don't get overtime or paid for all the extra hours I put in. A little maternity leave and actually sticking to an 8 hour schedule would be nice.

You don't want to hear this, BUT -- its also harder when you a mid thirties mom than it is when you are a 20 something professional young woman. Much, much harder. Whereas your male counterparts start to get welcomed into the fold. I am in biglaw and I got all kinds of opportunities when I was young and had great shoes etc. Its an image thing for many of these companies. Also something that has to change. Accept older women.

+1 You need to know that this will happen to you even if you don't have kids, PP. You'll be discriminated against simply because MAYBE you MIGHT have kids and also, since almost everyone higher up is a man, they feel more comfortable promoting the guys. It sucks.

NP here -- this is so, sadly true. PP, it is probably already happening to you. It's just not obvious yet. For a lot of us, it only becomes obvious once we have kids.

The reality is that no one, male or female, is going to make it into the c-suite working 8 hours a day. That's life in the corporate world. Everyone has a choice about what type of work-life balance they are comfortable with, and they should make a decision based on their personal goals. It is ridiculous to think someone "owes" you something or to get bitter because you can't have it all. No one can have it all... Make your decision and embrace it.