Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can they possibly identify the alleged rapists when there is no possible way to prosecute them? Or prove their guilt or innocence? The story was more about the cover up aspects of UVAs handling of rape in general than about this specific incident. Have you never heard of libel laws?

That's a revisionist take on what the story was about.

Why couldn't there be a prosecution if there were an investigation and prosecutors obtained testimony from Jackie and cooperating witnesses (some of whom might receive immunity or a reduced sentence in exchange for cooperating)? There are murder trials years after the crime where a body is never recovered.

In addition, truth is a defense to a defamation claim, so there should be no liability attached to identifying the alleged attackers and leaving it up to criminal authorities to decide whether to press rape charges. Surely Rolling Stone and any number of support groups would gladly pay any legal fees that Jackie, the author of the RS piece and RS might incur if charged with libel or slander.

Rape cases are noriously hard to win, particularly when there is no physical evidence preserved from the rape. I'm all for an investigation, but I think even the most optimistic would say a trial and conviction two plus years after the fact is unlikely absent a confession.

There is no statute of limitations for rape in Virginia. That ought to tell you something right there.

Someone would have to write another written confession. Otherwise no way.

Anonymous wrote:I thought the President of the school admitted in an interview that UVA has never expelled a student for sexual assault. Is that a false story?

I think there is plenty that's true in the story, including that fact. The University acknowledges that there are problems at UVA. What is unfortunate is that failure to properly report, check and vet a story (there were plenty of chances to catch this at numerous levels -- reporter, editors , RS attorneys ) may have caused erroneous assumptions about certain people as well as hurt the case for other women who have been sexually assaulted. As one commenter on a NYT story on this noted, it's not Jackie's fault -- she did not make her story public, the Rolling Stone did -- as a result even if they didn't run the accused boys names (I love how the attorneys are hiding behind that, btw), they had the obligation to verify the rough facts of the story -- did the frat have a date party that night? did a frat member actually work with her at the aquatics center, what about the other guys? etc. Feeble attempts to contact the frat president or national head of the fraternity really seem to suggest at best cursory CYA, at worst, they were trying to protect a story that was too good to be true.

I thought the President of the school admitted in an interview that UVA has never expelled a student for sexual assault. Is that a false story?

Anonymous wrote:I suppose it is too much to expect a little contrition from OP and others above who were ready to publicly condemn and demand the arrest of students based on what now seems -- at a minimum-- to have been terrible journalism and potentially much, much worse. I am not associated with UVA or any frats, but this cultural assumption that every untested public accusation must be accurate because many others are not reported or prosecuted makes no sense and must stop.

Reasonable adults and students ought to be able to reconcile the notions that a particular, highly publicized rape allegation was false and that sexual assault is a problem on many college campuses.

But many can't do so, so they continue to argue that Jackie's story, or some alternative version of it that has not been identified or verified, must be believed, lest it undermine the broader argument that there needs to be a cultural change at some schools or in organizations like fraternities. it's unfortunate, but consistent with the broader trend in society of never admitting that one is wrong or ever ceding any ground in a political debate.

I suppose it is too much to expect a little contrition from OP and others above who were ready to publicly condemn and demand the arrest of students based on what now seems -- at a minimum-- to have been terrible journalism and potentially much, much worse. I am not associated with UVA or any frats, but this cultural assumption that every untested public accusation must be accurate because many others are not reported or prosecuted makes no sense and must stop.

so I guess we have our answer to then OP’s question: because they don’t exist!

(astonishingly there have been posts on these threads saying their names are known, and one said they had already confessed).

Anonymous wrote:Whether the RS incident was fabricated and/or greatly exaggerated really doesn't have any baring on any other rape cases, does it? Proving this true or false does not prove or disprove other cases of sexual assaults.

It's good that authorities are investigating this, I'm sure they'll get to the bottom of it.

I think you meant "bearing," not "baring."

Each allegation needs to be addressed separately to vindicate the rights of those involved. And one can look at the university's processes for addressing allegations of sexual assault generally without adjudicating a particular case.

But, since the allegations in the RS are specific enough to have cast aspersions on the character of numerous individuals whose identities presumably are known within at least the UVA community, that situation certainly warrants a thorough investigation. Having an article like that out there and then suggesting the veracity of the allegations don't really matter because the university's processes are what really warrant review is absurd and unfair.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to UVA and never cared for the school culture much. Didn't like the pretentious, Mr Jefferson's University, Honor Code parts of it. Didn't like the fraternity/sorority, Laura Ashley dress/bow tie part either.

But I have a really hard time believing the lead story in the Rolling Stone article. Yeah many of the frat guys seemed like smug a--holes but I just can't see them doing something like this. And the implication that this was a local initiation ritual of that fraternity chapter - really can't believe that.

Really want to see this story thoroughly investigated and either validated or debunked. For better or worse this is our state flagship university and it should not be tarred like this unless it really deserves to be. There is a big difference between this story and a problem with acquaintance rape which I do believe exists at UVA and many universities.

How about the dozens of other allegations of sexual assault and the university's failure to investigate/refer to the police? This is about way one more than one allegation, no matter how horrible.

It sounds like you're already assuming the story will be debunked and are in damage-control mode.

Not at all, but as a parent, I'm more concerned about sending my kid to a school with a systematic failure to properly handle sexual assault claims, and a seeming total failure to supervise the greek system, than a school with one or two isolated incidents. That's without considering Hannah Graham and Yeardley Love. For future students, structural changes are every bit as important, if not more, than investigating Jackie's allegations (which is also important).

Agreed. And at the same time, the UVA Honor Code seems to be completely ineffective. Students guilty of serious crimes walk. And students can be bullied by Honor Code processes -- essentially, two UVA students can lie to the board and get another UVA student expelled pretextually, as a result of the "single sanction" rule (the only Honor punishment is immediate expulsion, no true appeal, and never a retrial). I will not be sending my kid.

Anonymous wrote:Whether the RS incident was fabricated and/or greatly exaggerated really doesn't have any baring on any other rape cases, does it? Proving this true or false does not prove or disprove other cases of sexual assaults.

It's good that authorities are investigating this, I'm sure they'll get to the bottom of it.

It there a typo in that?

Whether the RS incident was fabricated and/or greatly exaggerated really doesn't have any baring on any other rape cases, does it? Proving this true or false does not prove or disprove other cases of sexual assaults.

It's good that authorities are investigating this, I'm sure they'll get to the bottom of it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to UVA and never cared for the school culture much. Didn't like the pretentious, Mr Jefferson's University, Honor Code parts of it. Didn't like the fraternity/sorority, Laura Ashley dress/bow tie part either.

But I have a really hard time believing the lead story in the Rolling Stone article. Yeah many of the frat guys seemed like smug a--holes but I just can't see them doing something like this. And the implication that this was a local initiation ritual of that fraternity chapter - really can't believe that.

Really want to see this story thoroughly investigated and either validated or debunked. For better or worse this is our state flagship university and it should not be tarred like this unless it really deserves to be. There is a big difference between this story and a problem with acquaintance rape which I do believe exists at UVA and many universities.

How about the dozens of other allegations of sexual assault and the university's failure to investigate/refer to the police? This is about way one more than one allegation, no matter how horrible.

It sounds like you're already assuming the story will be debunked and are in damage-control mode.

Not at all, but as a parent, I'm more concerned about sending my kid to a school with a systematic failure to properly handle sexual assault claims, and a seeming total failure to supervise the greek system, than a school with one or two isolated incidents. That's without considering Hannah Graham and Yeardley Love. For future students, structural changes are every bit as important, if not more, than investigating Jackie's allegations (which is also important).

That's a reasonable point, assuming yours is a good-faith observation and not opportunistic UVA-bashing (of which there is no shortage), but in the context of this thread it comes across as if you're saying it doesn't really matter whether the RS incident was fabricated. And, at this point, getting to the bottom of these allegations should matter a great deal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to UVA and never cared for the school culture much. Didn't like the pretentious, Mr Jefferson's University, Honor Code parts of it. Didn't like the fraternity/sorority, Laura Ashley dress/bow tie part either.

But I have a really hard time believing the lead story in the Rolling Stone article. Yeah many of the frat guys seemed like smug a--holes but I just can't see them doing something like this. And the implication that this was a local initiation ritual of that fraternity chapter - really can't believe that.

Really want to see this story thoroughly investigated and either validated or debunked. For better or worse this is our state flagship university and it should not be tarred like this unless it really deserves to be. There is a big difference between this story and a problem with acquaintance rape which I do believe exists at UVA and many universities.

It would help a lot if she would name the person she could ID, but she won’t.
I think it is reasonable to have a complaining party in order to launch an investigation.
Who is in the best position to identify the alleged perp - she is.

Where do you get this intimate knowledge of what she will or won't do? All we know is what she is willing to divulge to reporters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to UVA and never cared for the school culture much. Didn't like the pretentious, Mr Jefferson's University, Honor Code parts of it. Didn't like the fraternity/sorority, Laura Ashley dress/bow tie part either.

But I have a really hard time believing the lead story in the Rolling Stone article. Yeah many of the frat guys seemed like smug a--holes but I just can't see them doing something like this. And the implication that this was a local initiation ritual of that fraternity chapter - really can't believe that.

Really want to see this story thoroughly investigated and either validated or debunked. For better or worse this is our state flagship university and it should not be tarred like this unless it really deserves to be. There is a big difference between this story and a problem with acquaintance rape which I do believe exists at UVA and many universities.

How about the dozens of other allegations of sexual assault and the university's failure to investigate/refer to the police? This is about way one more than one allegation, no matter how horrible.

It sounds like you're already assuming the story will be debunked and are in damage-control mode.

Not at all, but as a parent, I'm more concerned about sending my kid to a school with a systematic failure to properly handle sexual assault claims, and a seeming total failure to supervise the greek system, than a school with one or two isolated incidents. That's without considering Hannah Graham and Yeardley Love. For future students, structural changes are every bit as important, if not more, than investigating Jackie's allegations (which is also important).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to UVA and never cared for the school culture much. Didn't like the pretentious, Mr Jefferson's University, Honor Code parts of it. Didn't like the fraternity/sorority, Laura Ashley dress/bow tie part either.

But I have a really hard time believing the lead story in the Rolling Stone article. Yeah many of the frat guys seemed like smug a--holes but I just can't see them doing something like this. And the implication that this was a local initiation ritual of that fraternity chapter - really can't believe that.

Really want to see this story thoroughly investigated and either validated or debunked. For better or worse this is our state flagship university and it should not be tarred like this unless it really deserves to be. There is a big difference between this story and a problem with acquaintance rape which I do believe exists at UVA and many universities.

How about the dozens of other allegations of sexual assault and the university's failure to investigate/refer to the police? This is about way one more than one allegation, no matter how horrible.

It sounds like you're already assuming the story will be debunked and are in damage-control mode.