THere's a ton that's appalling in this RS piece. One of the things that appalls me is the victims "friends" who picked her up and debated whether or not she should go to the hospital. Despicable.

Clearly there is an issue with a protect rapists culture where even considering not reporting is the best option.

Had she reported it, I have no doubt the repercussions would have awful. But there would have been evidence. And the repercussions were awful, anyway.

In addition to teaching men not to rape, we need to change this perception that women should not report it.

Anonymous wrote:Ok, I'll say it: college fraternities need to be banned from campuses. They just need to be a thing of the past. What is the use of these organizations other than to shield and encourage pathological men and behaviors, such as binge drinking, sexual assault, misogyny?

THIS. Ban the social fraternities and sororities. There's no reason for them to exist anymore. I realize there will be bad apples everywhere but the fraternity drinking/drug culture just makes behavior 100x worse. I HIGHLY doubt a group of sober guys would gang-rape a girl.

And get town police more involved too. At big schools like UVA, the university should be paying the local police departments for more officers and the ability to do rape kits and investigations and such. We all know campus police are pretty useless, and people like Nicole Eramo exist only to help the university, not the students - they're like HR departments at corporations.

I think the question should be how do we prevent this in the future. We all know women who were raped in college and if you don't, you are lucky.

I would like to protect my daughter from sex assault and would like to teach both my kids to value all people.

I went to UVA for a professional degree and found it to be both sexist and racist. But it's not alone by a long shot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you all instantly believe a story told in Rolling Stone Magazine? There's holes all through piece. We all know how reporters have gotten into trouble for completely making up fake stories.

I knew of one of the incidents in the article several years ago.

Please go on if you can.

As a parent of a 10th grader and soon to be a college student what appalls me the most is that we have saved $ and sacraficed for our daughters to attend college only to be preyed upon and ignored by the university system. Time magazine also had a similar article a few months ago.

Anonymous wrote:I went to two schools as an undergrad, in the early 1990s. One was small, liberal arts college and one was a state school. In both cases, I knew several women who were raped. Most of them were raped at fraternity houses. In all cases, the administration did its best to cover it up. The more violent and egregious the incident, the harder women were pressured to say nothing. This is how colleges operate. It's not unique to UVA.

So what? so what if it is not unique. UVA is disgusting. Why is it that if a child in a public school is though to have been abused it is the law that the police have to be called but at UVA they are told it is not within the jurisdiction.

CALL THE POLICE. PERIOD.

The law needs to be changed that if the administration is made aware of a crime they have to report it. PERIOD.

They also need to have a relationship with another University and let the abused person continue their studies elsewhere until they are healthy and the rapist is gone.

Anonymous wrote:
While you aren't terribly interested in them now, I probably have more interest in fraternities/sororities than you because I have college age (and high school) children. I was once in college (before your 2007 reference) and knew people in those organizations. Some not so good.

Let's just let it end here. I think we both know where we're coming from.

You seem kind of condescending. My conclusion seems logical to me. Why in the world would I know anything about a nursing fraternity? Why should I be familiar with every fraternity in the country before coming to a conclusion? Most fraternities and sororities have entirely questionable value (you haven't really articulated what benefit they have other than their members care about them), and apparently, a whole lot of them are sheltering rapists. Why micro-manage these entities at this point? Why not just ban them?

I went to two schools as an undergrad, in the early 1990s. One was small, liberal arts college and one was a state school. In both cases, I knew several women who were raped. Most of them were raped at fraternity houses. In all cases, the administration did its best to cover it up. The more violent and egregious the incident, the harder women were pressured to say nothing. This is how colleges operate. It's not unique to UVA.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I wouldn't go as far as disbanding all frats and sororities because many of them are academic and do wonderful community service. But the beer drinking, girl raping, belly bumping frats should have their chapters removed. Georgia Tech just had a chapter revoked because of rape bait emails.

Really? Which ones? I went to a college where there were frats and this was not something I noticed. Plus, the bad seems to radically outweigh any possible good in this case.

Unfortunately, reputable greek fraternities and sororities are now lumped together. Come on, just because they didn't exist at your school doesn't mean they don't exist. Also, they aren't as big as the traditional fraternities.

These are primarily professional networking frat/soroities. I had friends in Sigma Theta Tau and Sigma Phi Delta (NOT to be confused with Delta Sigma Phi), nursing and engineering. I never heard or saw anything reprehensible though these were small, egghead (term used in the nicest way possible) houses.

I am the pp you are responding to, and while I was in a "service fraternity" in college, I think that I and everyone else recognized that it wasn't a "real" fraternity. It was more like a community service club. And I wouldn't think that they professional frats you are talking about are "real" either. I'm talking about the fraternities and sororities that are based on the more arbitrary and nebulous concepts of "brotherhood" and "sisterhood" but are really understood by everyone else at the school to mean "rich white kids who want to get drunk and party together." And if only all they were doing was simply getting drunk and partying! That would be fine, but obviously it's a lot worse than that. And it seems to encourage a real objectification of women that was ridiculous. I remember a friend explaining the sororities to me in colleges, there was one for the prettiest/hottest girls, less hot girls, "nice" (basically meaning not hot I guess) girls, etc. I remember thinking "seriously? It's 2007. wtf?"

Sigma Theta Tau is more than just a playground as it sounds like you're indicating. I'm sure the over 100,000 professional nurse members consider their membership significant and visionary.

I'm sure your intention was to draw a line between "nebulous concepts of brother and sisterhood" and the work that "community service clubs" do. However, I think your synopsis that Sigma Theta Tau members are community service "club" and not real would most definitely be up for debate.

I think my post was not clear. I have no idea what Sigma Theta Tau is about. Is it a frat for people in some sort of profession like nursing or something? I wasn't clear from your post. I think since the organization is based on a profession, like nursing, it's not like the "party" frats I'm otherwise familiar with. Like, I can't imagine a nursing organization choosing its female members based on how "hot" they were. Like most people who were not interested in frats in college (i.e. most people period), I'm not terribly interested in them now, either. All I saw from frats was really, really bad behavior. And that would be fine if it was gentle hijinks like partying and living in a house together. But it appears it's beyond that.

Like nursing or something? I know you mean well but I would suggest that in the future you might check out an unfamiliar subject before you draw questionable conclusions.

While you aren't terribly interested in them now, I probably have more interest in fraternities/sororities than you because I have college age (and high school) children. I was once in college (before your 2007 reference) and knew people in those organizations. Some not so good.

Let's just let it end here. I think we both know where we're coming from.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I wouldn't go as far as disbanding all frats and sororities because many of them are academic and do wonderful community service. But the beer drinking, girl raping, belly bumping frats should have their chapters removed. Georgia Tech just had a chapter revoked because of rape bait emails.

Really? Which ones? I went to a college where there were frats and this was not something I noticed. Plus, the bad seems to radically outweigh any possible good in this case.

Unfortunately, reputable greek fraternities and sororities are now lumped together. Come on, just because they didn't exist at your school doesn't mean they don't exist. Also, they aren't as big as the traditional fraternities.

These are primarily professional networking frat/soroities. I had friends in Sigma Theta Tau and Sigma Phi Delta (NOT to be confused with Delta Sigma Phi), nursing and engineering. I never heard or saw anything reprehensible though these were small, egghead (term used in the nicest way possible) houses.

I am the pp you are responding to, and while I was in a "service fraternity" in college, I think that I and everyone else recognized that it wasn't a "real" fraternity. It was more like a community service club. And I wouldn't think that they professional frats you are talking about are "real" either. I'm talking about the fraternities and sororities that are based on the more arbitrary and nebulous concepts of "brotherhood" and "sisterhood" but are really understood by everyone else at the school to mean "rich white kids who want to get drunk and party together." And if only all they were doing was simply getting drunk and partying! That would be fine, but obviously it's a lot worse than that. And it seems to encourage a real objectification of women that was ridiculous. I remember a friend explaining the sororities to me in colleges, there was one for the prettiest/hottest girls, less hot girls, "nice" (basically meaning not hot I guess) girls, etc. I remember thinking "seriously? It's 2007. wtf?"

Sigma Theta Tau is more than just a playground as it sounds like you're indicating. I'm sure the over 100,000 professional nurse members consider their membership significant and visionary.

I'm sure your intention was to draw a line between "nebulous concepts of brother and sisterhood" and the work that "community service clubs" do. However, I think your synopsis that Sigma Theta Tau members are community service "club" and not real would most definitely be up for debate.

I think my post was not clear. I have no idea what Sigma Theta Tau is about. Is it a frat for people in some sort of profession like nursing or something? I wasn't clear from your post. I think since the organization is based on a profession, like nursing, it's not like the "party" frats I'm otherwise familiar with. Like, I can't imagine a nursing organization choosing its female members based on how "hot" they were. Like most people who were not interested in frats in college (i.e. most people period), I'm not terribly interested in them now, either. All I saw from frats was really, really bad behavior. And that would be fine if it was gentle hijinks like partying and living in a house together. But it appears it's beyond that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I wouldn't go as far as disbanding all frats and sororities because many of them are academic and do wonderful community service. But the beer drinking, girl raping, belly bumping frats should have their chapters removed. Georgia Tech just had a chapter revoked because of rape bait emails.

Really? Which ones? I went to a college where there were frats and this was not something I noticed. Plus, the bad seems to radically outweigh any possible good in this case.

Unfortunately, reputable greek fraternities and sororities are now lumped together. Come on, just because they didn't exist at your school doesn't mean they don't exist. Also, they aren't as big as the traditional fraternities.

These are primarily professional networking frat/soroities. I had friends in Sigma Theta Tau and Sigma Phi Delta (NOT to be confused with Delta Sigma Phi), nursing and engineering. I never heard or saw anything reprehensible though these were small, egghead (term used in the nicest way possible) houses.

I am the pp you are responding to, and while I was in a "service fraternity" in college, I think that I and everyone else recognized that it wasn't a "real" fraternity. It was more like a community service club. And I wouldn't think that they professional frats you are talking about are "real" either. I'm talking about the fraternities and sororities that are based on the more arbitrary and nebulous concepts of "brotherhood" and "sisterhood" but are really understood by everyone else at the school to mean "rich white kids who want to get drunk and party together." And if only all they were doing was simply getting drunk and partying! That would be fine, but obviously it's a lot worse than that. And it seems to encourage a real objectification of women that was ridiculous. I remember a friend explaining the sororities to me in colleges, there was one for the prettiest/hottest girls, less hot girls, "nice" (basically meaning not hot I guess) girls, etc. I remember thinking "seriously? It's 2007. wtf?"

Sigma Theta Tau is more than just a playground as it sounds like you're indicating. I'm sure the over 100,000 professional nurse members consider their membership significant and visionary.

I'm sure your intention was to draw a line between "nebulous concepts of brother and sisterhood" and the work that "community service clubs" do. However, I think your synopsis that Sigma Theta Tau members are community service "club" and not real would most definitely be up for debate.

I went to an highly ranked academic school with a large fraternity/sorority scene. There are quite a few things that can be done without outlawing greek life entirely. First, warn students of the allegations. Second and the most obvious, encourage students and support them to refer matters to the police. Third, take action based on allegations -- Hopkins recently banned all fraternity parties until further notice in the wake of an allegation that a girl was assaulted at a fraternity party (allegedly by someone who wasn't a student)). Fourth, outlaw fraternity/sorority houses or make them non-residential.

Anonymous wrote:Why do you all instantly believe a story told in Rolling Stone Magazine? There's holes all through piece. We all know how reporters have gotten into trouble for completely making up fake stories.

I knew of one of the incidents in the article several years ago.

My daughter just pulled her EA application to UVA. She is not so naïve as to believe that these problems are isolated to UVA or to privileged fraternities. She just wants to get out of the way of the ensuing "shitstorm."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I wouldn't go as far as disbanding all frats and sororities because many of them are academic and do wonderful community service. But the beer drinking, girl raping, belly bumping frats should have their chapters removed. Georgia Tech just had a chapter revoked because of rape bait emails.

Really? Which ones? I went to a college where there were frats and this was not something I noticed. Plus, the bad seems to radically outweigh any possible good in this case.

Unfortunately, reputable greek fraternities and sororities are now lumped together. Come on, just because they didn't exist at your school doesn't mean they don't exist. Also, they aren't as big as the traditional fraternities.

These are primarily professional networking frat/soroities. I had friends in Sigma Theta Tau and Sigma Phi Delta (NOT to be confused with Delta Sigma Phi), nursing and engineering. I never heard or saw anything reprehensible though these were small, egghead (term used in the nicest way possible) houses.

I am the pp you are responding to, and while I was in a "service fraternity" in college, I think that I and everyone else recognized that it wasn't a "real" fraternity. It was more like a community service club. And I wouldn't think that they professional frats you are talking about are "real" either. I'm talking about the fraternities and sororities that are based on the more arbitrary and nebulous concepts of "brotherhood" and "sisterhood" but are really understood by everyone else at the school to mean "rich white kids who want to get drunk and party together." And if only all they were doing was simply getting drunk and partying! That would be fine, but obviously it's a lot worse than that. And it seems to encourage a real objectification of women that was ridiculous. I remember a friend explaining the sororities to me in colleges, there was one for the prettiest/hottest girls, less hot girls, "nice" (basically meaning not hot I guess) girls, etc. I remember thinking "seriously? It's 2007. wtf?"