Anonymous wrote:
This is why I dislike the standards based grading used in elementary. With the letter grades, there is a clearcut objective standard, and it is obvious how grades are obtained -- by mastering X% of the material, the student earns Y grade. I think that makes it easier to see how to help a student improve their learning and work up to the next highest grade. With the new elementary grading style, it seems very ambiguous. Nobody is quite sure what specifically is required to earn each level of "grade", so it is more difficult to come up with a plan to help a student improve.

OP here.

I think this is what my issue is with the ES. It's hard to achieve a goal if that goal is not well-defined.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What?? That sounds terrible! It's like saying to your kid who got a C in Algebra that he's just a C Student and there's no way to get the A or B.

Do you really think there is some innate magic that kids who get an ES have? Are all the other kids simply just not capable of an ES?

A kid who gets a C gets a C because they were unprepared for the assignment. A kid who gets an ES gets an ES because they are working outside the boundaries of what the teacher is teaching. It's not magic... rather raw intelligence. That can't be taught or tutored. There is no shame in all P's.

This is why I dislike the standards based grading used in elementary. With the letter grades, there is a clearcut objective standard, and it is obvious how grades are obtained -- by mastering X% of the material, the student earns Y grade. I think that makes it easier to see how to help a student improve their learning and work up to the next highest grade. With the new elementary grading style, it seems very ambiguous. Nobody is quite sure what specifically is required to earn each level of "grade", so it is more difficult to come up with a plan to help a student improve.

Previously, to go from a grade of B to A, the student would know that they needed to get X% more points from correct answers on assignments and tests. Now, it seems that even meeting or exceeding grade level standards for things like reading level or even getting over 90% of the problems on an assignment is insufficient for the highest grade but nobody is quite sure what would be sufficient to earn an ES. That seems quite discouraging and even slightly arbitrary. I don't think it's a very good system.

It's elementary school. There are so many concepts being taught. I think the grading scale is sufficient for such a fluid curriculum.

N- Not grasping it yet - need work
I - In progress.. kid is putting the pieces together
P - Proficient... kid gets it.
ES - Kid is working beyond the subject matter - lets do something to keep the kid engaged.

I don't think we really need A's to F's to grade 6-10 year olds. I think the current scale ensures that areas that need attention, get attention.

Anonymous wrote:You have to drop the idea that ES is a goal. P is the goal.

I'm new to this school system, and that concept makes little sense to me. My goal for my kids is usually the highest grade possible, because to me that shows that they are understanding as much of the concept as possible, have learned as much as they can, and are performing at the highest level. That seems like a good goal to work towards.

At their old school, if they weren't getting the highest score that meant there were skills missing, or something they were consistently doing wrong/not understanding. I could work with them to get them to learn the concept, and then they would start earning the highest score. In other words, in K and 1 we had a numerical system with 1-4 where 4 was the best; if the kids were earning a 2 or 3 that meant something was wrong and they could be doing better so I helped them learn whatever was missing until they got a 4.

Are you saying it isn't possible to do that in MCPS? Even if my kids are getting all of the problems correct and mastering all the skills with few mistakes they will still get P and not ES? Why would they have a grade that is unattainable when usually the presence of a grade higher on the scale means that there is a better level the student could be performing at? I don't want my kid to "only" be doing P level work if they "could" be doing ES level work, but if ES isn't really something that is given out even for the highest quality of work and a complete understanding of the material, then that changes how I will look at their grades.

I'm not sure I like the standards based grading system very much. It doesn't seem nearly as clear and useful as numerical or letter grade systems. Maybe I just need to find some resources so I understand it better, as I'm sure there was a reason it was adopted and it must be in line with new educational best practices for elementary.

Anonymous wrote:You have to drop the idea that ES is a goal. P is the goal.

This thread is so strange. So, the goal is to be 'proficient'? That's it. Nothing more.

Nope, sorry. I'd like to encourage my kid to be better than just proficient.

As to the PP who says it's just raw intelligence, I find that crazy. Do you really believe that some kids are just simply smarter than other kids? Is that what you teach your own kids? That their classmates do better than them because they are smarter? Ugh

I teach my kids that they can do better if they work harder. I fell that is way more important than raw intelligence.

Does anyone like standards based grading? How long before a new system is adopted?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What?? That sounds terrible! It's like saying to your kid who got a C in Algebra that he's just a C Student and there's no way to get the A or B.

Do you really think there is some innate magic that kids who get an ES have? Are all the other kids simply just not capable of an ES?

A kid who gets a C gets a C because they were unprepared for the assignment. A kid who gets an ES gets an ES because they are working outside the boundaries of what the teacher is teaching. It's not magic... rather raw intelligence. That can't be taught or tutored. There is no shame in all P's.

This is why I dislike the standards based grading used in elementary. With the letter grades, there is a clearcut objective standard, and it is obvious how grades are obtained -- by mastering X% of the material, the student earns Y grade. I think that makes it easier to see how to help a student improve their learning and work up to the next highest grade. With the new elementary grading style, it seems very ambiguous. Nobody is quite sure what specifically is required to earn each level of "grade", so it is more difficult to come up with a plan to help a student improve.

Previously, to go from a grade of B to A, the student would know that they needed to get X% more points from correct answers on assignments and tests. Now, it seems that even meeting or exceeding grade level standards for things like reading level or even getting over 90% of the problems on an assignment is insufficient for the highest grade but nobody is quite sure what would be sufficient to earn an ES. That seems quite discouraging and even slightly arbitrary. I don't think it's a very good system.

You have to drop the idea that ES is a goal. P is the goal.

Anonymous wrote:

What?? That sounds terrible! It's like saying to your kid who got a C in Algebra that he's just a C Student and there's no way to get the A or B.

Do you really think there is some innate magic that kids who get an ES have? Are all the other kids simply just not capable of an ES?

A kid who gets a C gets a C because they were unprepared for the assignment. A kid who gets an ES gets an ES because they are working outside the boundaries of what the teacher is teaching. It's not magic... rather raw intelligence. That can't be taught or tutored. There is no shame in all P's.

Just to reiterate again. Its possible no one is getting ES grades. At some schools or with some teachers it just doesn't happen. There is sometimes no opportunity to get an ES. I had to teach my son to be happy with a P. Sad, but true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Of course there will always be kids who are doing better! I get that. My kid loves gymnastics and recognizes that there are other girls who are way better than she is. Her coaches have been great, because they tell her exactly what she needs to do to improve. I'm looking for that same kind of feedback, I think. I'm not a teacher, so I'm not exactly sure what I could/should be doing.

I feel that if I knew exactly what an 'ES' entailed, I could help DD improve in those areas. Even if she doesn't get the ES, at least I can get her on the right track.

I don't think getting ES grades can be coached. It's a matter of the child grasping one or more concepts and applying them to a different discipline. I've used this example before, but after I taught my daughter how to read analog clocks she looked at a clock with roman numerals and asked me if I was 1 and V was 5. IMO, that's the kind extrapolation they look for when giving ES grades.

What?? That sounds terrible! It's like saying to your kid who got a C in Algebra that he's just a C Student and there's no way to get the A or B.

Do you really think there is some innate magic that kids who get an ES have? Are all the other kids simply just not capable of an ES?

Anonymous wrote:

Of course there will always be kids who are doing better! I get that. My kid loves gymnastics and recognizes that there are other girls who are way better than she is. Her coaches have been great, because they tell her exactly what she needs to do to improve. I'm looking for that same kind of feedback, I think. I'm not a teacher, so I'm not exactly sure what I could/should be doing.

I feel that if I knew exactly what an 'ES' entailed, I could help DD improve in those areas. Even if she doesn't get the ES, at least I can get her on the right track.

I don't think getting ES grades can be coached. It's a matter of the child grasping one or more concepts and applying them to a different discipline. I've used this example before, but after I taught my daughter how to read analog clocks she looked at a clock with roman numerals and asked me if I was 1 and V was 5. IMO, that's the kind extrapolation they look for when giving ES grades.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again.

I completely understand that DD's grades in ES don't matter. I am not going out to get her a tutor. No way. I'm really not concerned about the grade.

I think 16:20 might have hit on what I'm looking for from the teacher - a specific thing that I could work on with DD to help her improve her reading abilities. There his obviously something that other kids (who get ESs) are doing better. I'd like some advice - e.g. work on DD's punctuation, work on her addition of two-digit numbers, or whatever.

If she's not getting ESs, there is obviously room for improvement, right? I'd like to help her!

Why does it matter that there are other kids who are doing better? There will always be other kids who are doing better, just as there is always room for improvement. Even if your child is getting straight ESs.

Of course there will always be kids who are doing better! I get that. My kid loves gymnastics and recognizes that there are other girls who are way better than she is. Her coaches have been great, because they tell her exactly what she needs to do to improve. I'm looking for that same kind of feedback, I think. I'm not a teacher, so I'm not exactly sure what I could/should be doing.

I feel that if I knew exactly what an 'ES' entailed, I could help DD improve in those areas. Even if she doesn't get the ES, at least I can get her on the right track.

Anonymous wrote:My DS got two Is as I found out today. No dessert for a month!

Seriously?

My DS got two Is as I found out today. No dessert for a month!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just got back from parent teacher conference and DD in first got mostly Ps and a few Is.

PP, why upset about "I"? It means your DD is "in progress" of grasping that particular subject. It means DD is "on track". A "P" means that the kid is already proficient in that area. You really cannot equate these to the A, B, C grading rubric. So, don't feel bad about a few "I"s.

Not upset about the Is per se. But there may be some mind if learning issue. Teachers are going to see how the next quarter goes and we will regroup at that time.