Anonymous
09/26/2014 14:39
Subject: Question for white, upper middle class moms
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Okay, I'll be honest. I'm not sure which vein of "Asian" you are, but here's what I see among many Chinese and Japanese families: they spoil the kids totally rotten and then when the kids go to school, the schools whip them into shape. The parents only enforce the tracks the schools lay down.
But by then, six years in, your kid has already pushed my kid, knocked my kid over, ripped things out of her hands, hit, kicked, etc. many times, and my kid is totally over yours. I am friendly for the most part with the parents of kids my kid is friends with.
What I described above is not across the board for ALL Asian parents, but the majority. It's hard for me to be friends with someone I don't respect, and it's hard for me to respect someone who won't discipline their child.
This is kind of how I see it. I live in Arlington, so not many Asian families. Whenever I bring my kid to one of those indoor places, it's usually the Asian boy who is a holy terror. His parents are no where to be found.
I have Asian (Korean, Japanese and Chinese) born friends. We hang out socially, but not with our kids.
OTH, the boys that keep terrorizing and bullying my half-Asian kids are white.
Anonymous
09/26/2014 14:37
Subject: Question for white, upper middle class moms
Anonymous wrote:I am an Asian-American mom of ES kids. I was born in the Midwestern US. I had more non-Asian friends than Asian-American friends my entire life and married a non-Asian. Since being a mom, I feel really left out of the mom social scene, despite my best efforts to be involved. I always figured it was something about me as an individual but, on DCUM, I see there is a lot of negativity towards and stereotyping of Asians. I don't know if this is actually common in real life in the DC area. I am shocked by the attitude because part of what I like about this area is the diversity.
My question is whether you feel less comfortable befriending someone who is non-white, or specifically of Asian origin, than you do someone who is white.
This is an anonymous forum, so please be honest.
Why is this addressed to "upper middle class?"
methinks you might be a tad bit of a snob .. .
Anonymous
09/26/2014 14:30
Subject: Re:Question for white, upper middle class moms
OP here
Thank you, 14:03. Yes, to all who posted their views on Asians being different, does that apply to those born and raised in the US? I kind of suspect those of you with stereotypes do not differentiate and that is frustrating to me.
To the discipline poster, nope, my kids are not terrors.
I am not a tiger mom -- pretty much no enrichment activities except instrument. I kind of suspect that people think we do them, though.
Thanks for all the honest replies. Thanks to those who shared their own difficulties making friends here. I will go back to thinking that it may be a little about my personality and a little about the area. And I will keep being friendly and involved.
Thank you, 14:03. Yes, to all who posted their views on Asians being different, does that apply to those born and raised in the US? I kind of suspect those of you with stereotypes do not differentiate and that is frustrating to me.
To the discipline poster, nope, my kids are not terrors.
I am not a tiger mom -- pretty much no enrichment activities except instrument. I kind of suspect that people think we do them, though.
Thanks for all the honest replies. Thanks to those who shared their own difficulties making friends here. I will go back to thinking that it may be a little about my personality and a little about the area. And I will keep being friendly and involved.
Anonymous
09/26/2014 14:03
Subject: Question for white, upper middle class moms
Anonymous wrote:First of all, this is a difficult area to make friends. Some people are terribly competitive (read: insecure) and don't have their own merits to stand on.
OP, since you asked. We live close in, and there are tons of Asians, especially Chinese and Korean. I think a lot of people feel uncomfortable with certain cultures believing that their issues/rules/whatever you want to call them - hold true here. They often do not. Sometimes you need to adapt.
Sometimes your rules don't apply to everyone else, or anyone else. Sometimes, even though you come from a culture that is accustomed to dictatorship, huge class disparity, and blatant wrong doings - you chose to go elsewhere to avoid all that - and you can't look a gift horse in the mouth. KWIM?
Your culture's government mandates one child per family and advocates drowning baby girls. So now, who does that government think all of those grown boys are going to marry? Because we ALL KNOW about the cultural class distinctions and pecking order, to that cultures dismay - and inevitable demise. Chinese consider themselves "superior", then "Koreans", etc.
I get it, "world dominance....blah, blah, blah..." But doesn't that sound a bit paranoid and excessive to you? That bullsh*t doesn't fly here.
For example, one of my good friends is a great parent, from a great, successful hardworking family. They happen to be white. One of the new, Chinese moms in our school started talking trash about this wonderful family. Now that Chinese family wonders why everyone hates them. Because, the one you were talking trash about is a great family! What did you *think* was going to happen? "Oh let me be friends with this woman who talks trash about people she doesn't even know?"
Good luck with that!
You can choose to get along, or you can choose to alienate. I suspect you are making a genuine effort. I suspect you do not point out everyone's faults, or look for faults that are not there. I suppose you know when to keep your mouth shut. That is a start.
I fully realize the last two paragraphs could pertain to anyone, but a newly arrived mom should do her best to keep things positive, lest she be known as a troublemaker. And who wants a troublemaker around? I guess my point is, be careful who you alienate.
To answer your question, in our community, I think people are a bit wary of the two groups I mention in particular. They come from such extreme living situations, and there is a Tiger Mom legacy that the Asians think is secret. It's just not.
Being a Tiger Mom may be a label you detest, but it is alive and well unless you disprove it yourself.
I realize this will get flamed, but you asked. I gave you my perspective based on my community. I won't say where for obvious reasons, but I happen to know there are many moms nodding in agreement right now, even if they are reluctant to come forward.
The OP is born and raised here and married a white guy.... how does any of this apply to her?
Anonymous
09/26/2014 14:01
Subject: Question for white, upper middle class moms
Anonymous wrote:Okay, I'll be honest. I'm not sure which vein of "Asian" you are, but here's what I see among many Chinese and Japanese families: they spoil the kids totally rotten and then when the kids go to school, the schools whip them into shape. The parents only enforce the tracks the schools lay down.
But by then, six years in, your kid has already pushed my kid, knocked my kid over, ripped things out of her hands, hit, kicked, etc. many times, and my kid is totally over yours. I am friendly for the most part with the parents of kids my kid is friends with.
What I described above is not across the board for ALL Asian parents, but the majority. It's hard for me to be friends with someone I don't respect, and it's hard for me to respect someone who won't discipline their child.
This is kind of how I see it. I live in Arlington, so not many Asian families. Whenever I bring my kid to one of those indoor places, it's usually the Asian boy who is a holy terror. His parents are no where to be found.
I have Asian (Korean, Japanese and Chinese) born friends. We hang out socially, but not with our kids.
Anonymous
09/26/2014 14:00
Subject: Question for white, upper middle class moms
I'm white and historically have always had Asian friends. My best friend/maid of honor in my wedding (to give you an idea of how close we are) is Chinese. My closest college friend was Vietnamese.
I live in upper NW and honestly I only know a few Asians. Once is becoming a pretty good friend. However, the one thing that I have a really hard time with is her endless bragging about her children's abilities. I am REALLY laid back about my kids. I'm the first to admit that they're often a pain in the ass and while they have awesome qualities they also have many weaknesses that we're working on. I have no idea what college they'll attend and I don't really care. However, my Asian friend here is all about the Ivy league and how gifted her son is and what an extraordinary kids she has. I ignore it most of the time but I do think it prevents us from getting closer. My nearest and dearest friends here come at parenting from the same perspective as I do. We're doing our best and our kids may or may not succeed in life and we'll be okay with it. We just don't the energy or desire to micromanage our kids. Instead we drink wine and hang out and laugh at stupid stuff.
I live in upper NW and honestly I only know a few Asians. Once is becoming a pretty good friend. However, the one thing that I have a really hard time with is her endless bragging about her children's abilities. I am REALLY laid back about my kids. I'm the first to admit that they're often a pain in the ass and while they have awesome qualities they also have many weaknesses that we're working on. I have no idea what college they'll attend and I don't really care. However, my Asian friend here is all about the Ivy league and how gifted her son is and what an extraordinary kids she has. I ignore it most of the time but I do think it prevents us from getting closer. My nearest and dearest friends here come at parenting from the same perspective as I do. We're doing our best and our kids may or may not succeed in life and we'll be okay with it. We just don't the energy or desire to micromanage our kids. Instead we drink wine and hang out and laugh at stupid stuff.
Anonymous
09/26/2014 13:51
Subject: Re:Question for white, upper middle class moms
OP, There are a couple Asian moms at our bus stop. Honestly, I've tried to do more than small talk but they tend to be very formal around me and it sort of put me off. I'm not sure if it's a culture thing or they just don't want anything more to do with me. I haven't reached out and invited either of them for coffee or lunch or whatever, but IMO I sort of think they need to do that. Other's have - and I've also done that when I sensed that the other person wanted to keep talking. but when you start small talk (like you mentioned in your OP) and don't try to engage in more discussion (answer my questions with one-word or 2 word answers; don't ask any probing questions yourself; don't share more information about yourself) it puts a lot on the other person to initiate something.
I'm rambling, but I guess what I'm saying is if I'm small talking with Mom A and she shares more detailed information, asks probing questions, etc. it's easier for me to say, "hey, do you have a minute to get coffee at my house so we can finish this convo up?" While with Mom B, it's like pulling teeth to get more than "they're fin." "Oh yes, love school" [pause, pause, pause] "no, haven't gone to that gym." [pause, pause, pause] I'm not going to say let's finish this over coffee at my house.
Not sure if you are this way as well, as I'm not implying that all Asians are, but the 2 I have met at our bus stop were like this. So, I'm giving you my honest answer as to why we haven't developed a friendship.
I'm rambling, but I guess what I'm saying is if I'm small talking with Mom A and she shares more detailed information, asks probing questions, etc. it's easier for me to say, "hey, do you have a minute to get coffee at my house so we can finish this convo up?" While with Mom B, it's like pulling teeth to get more than "they're fin." "Oh yes, love school" [pause, pause, pause] "no, haven't gone to that gym." [pause, pause, pause] I'm not going to say let's finish this over coffee at my house.
Not sure if you are this way as well, as I'm not implying that all Asians are, but the 2 I have met at our bus stop were like this. So, I'm giving you my honest answer as to why we haven't developed a friendship.
Anonymous
09/26/2014 13:48
Subject: Question for white, upper middle class moms
Anonymous wrote:No, I don't. But by DCUM standards, I'm not upper middle class, I'm poor. Which supports the PPs' statement that DCUM does not reflect reality.
+1
Anonymous
09/26/2014 13:46
Subject: Re:Question for white, upper middle class moms
Anonymous wrote:Honestly, OP, I don't think you want to go here.
Some Asian parents can behave in ways that seem off-putting to typical white, upper middle-class parents. Do you really want examples? At the end of the day, we need to deal with each other as individuals, don't we?
+1
Many people won't step up and spell it out for you.
Anonymous
09/26/2014 13:45
Subject: Question for white, upper middle class moms
First of all, this is a difficult area to make friends. Some people are terribly competitive (read: insecure) and don't have their own merits to stand on.
OP, since you asked. We live close in, and there are tons of Asians, especially Chinese and Korean. I think a lot of people feel uncomfortable with certain cultures believing that their issues/rules/whatever you want to call them - hold true here. They often do not. Sometimes you need to adapt.
Sometimes your rules don't apply to everyone else, or anyone else. Sometimes, even though you come from a culture that is accustomed to dictatorship, huge class disparity, and blatant wrong doings - you chose to go elsewhere to avoid all that - and you can't look a gift horse in the mouth. KWIM?
Your culture's government mandates one child per family and advocates drowning baby girls. So now, who does that government think all of those grown boys are going to marry? Because we ALL KNOW about the cultural class distinctions and pecking order, to that cultures dismay - and inevitable demise. Chinese consider themselves "superior", then "Koreans", etc.
I get it, "world dominance....blah, blah, blah..." But doesn't that sound a bit paranoid and excessive to you? That bullsh*t doesn't fly here.
For example, one of my good friends is a great parent, from a great, successful hardworking family. They happen to be white. One of the new, Chinese moms in our school started talking trash about this wonderful family. Now that Chinese family wonders why everyone hates them. Because, the one you were talking trash about is a great family! What did you *think* was going to happen? "Oh let me be friends with this woman who talks trash about people she doesn't even know?"
Good luck with that!
You can choose to get along, or you can choose to alienate. I suspect you are making a genuine effort. I suspect you do not point out everyone's faults, or look for faults that are not there. I suppose you know when to keep your mouth shut. That is a start.
I fully realize the last two paragraphs could pertain to anyone, but a newly arrived mom should do her best to keep things positive, lest she be known as a troublemaker. And who wants a troublemaker around? I guess my point is, be careful who you alienate.
To answer your question, in our community, I think people are a bit wary of the two groups I mention in particular. They come from such extreme living situations, and there is a Tiger Mom legacy that the Asians think is secret. It's just not.
Being a Tiger Mom may be a label you detest, but it is alive and well unless you disprove it yourself.
I realize this will get flamed, but you asked. I gave you my perspective based on my community. I won't say where for obvious reasons, but I happen to know there are many moms nodding in agreement right now, even if they are reluctant to come forward.
OP, since you asked. We live close in, and there are tons of Asians, especially Chinese and Korean. I think a lot of people feel uncomfortable with certain cultures believing that their issues/rules/whatever you want to call them - hold true here. They often do not. Sometimes you need to adapt.
Sometimes your rules don't apply to everyone else, or anyone else. Sometimes, even though you come from a culture that is accustomed to dictatorship, huge class disparity, and blatant wrong doings - you chose to go elsewhere to avoid all that - and you can't look a gift horse in the mouth. KWIM?
Your culture's government mandates one child per family and advocates drowning baby girls. So now, who does that government think all of those grown boys are going to marry? Because we ALL KNOW about the cultural class distinctions and pecking order, to that cultures dismay - and inevitable demise. Chinese consider themselves "superior", then "Koreans", etc.
I get it, "world dominance....blah, blah, blah..." But doesn't that sound a bit paranoid and excessive to you? That bullsh*t doesn't fly here.
For example, one of my good friends is a great parent, from a great, successful hardworking family. They happen to be white. One of the new, Chinese moms in our school started talking trash about this wonderful family. Now that Chinese family wonders why everyone hates them. Because, the one you were talking trash about is a great family! What did you *think* was going to happen? "Oh let me be friends with this woman who talks trash about people she doesn't even know?"
Good luck with that!
You can choose to get along, or you can choose to alienate. I suspect you are making a genuine effort. I suspect you do not point out everyone's faults, or look for faults that are not there. I suppose you know when to keep your mouth shut. That is a start.
I fully realize the last two paragraphs could pertain to anyone, but a newly arrived mom should do her best to keep things positive, lest she be known as a troublemaker. And who wants a troublemaker around? I guess my point is, be careful who you alienate.
To answer your question, in our community, I think people are a bit wary of the two groups I mention in particular. They come from such extreme living situations, and there is a Tiger Mom legacy that the Asians think is secret. It's just not.
Being a Tiger Mom may be a label you detest, but it is alive and well unless you disprove it yourself.
I realize this will get flamed, but you asked. I gave you my perspective based on my community. I won't say where for obvious reasons, but I happen to know there are many moms nodding in agreement right now, even if they are reluctant to come forward.
Anonymous
09/26/2014 13:42
Subject: Question for white, upper middle class moms
Not at all. Some of my closest friends weren't even born in the US.
Anonymous
09/26/2014 13:41
Subject: Question for white, upper middle class moms
OP, I'm originally from the West Coast. I know a few people around here from the West coast, and we all agree that there is definitely a different vibe here regarding "friendship".
I once heard that in the East Coast, it's hard to make friends but when you do, they are life-long friends, whereas, in the West coast, you can make friends easier but it tends to be superficial. I don't know if it's true since I have pretty darn close friends from when I lived in the west coast, but that is the saying. Probably some truth to it.
I don't know about the Midwest.
I once heard that in the East Coast, it's hard to make friends but when you do, they are life-long friends, whereas, in the West coast, you can make friends easier but it tends to be superficial. I don't know if it's true since I have pretty darn close friends from when I lived in the west coast, but that is the saying. Probably some truth to it.
I don't know about the Midwest.
Anonymous
09/26/2014 13:37
Subject: Question for white, upper middle class moms
OP are you interested in having black friends too?
Anonymous
09/26/2014 13:36
Subject: Question for white, upper middle class moms
Anonymous wrote:I am an Asian-American mom of ES kids. I was born in the Midwestern US. I had more non-Asian friends than Asian-American friends my entire life and married a non-Asian. Since being a mom, I feel really left out of the mom social scene, despite my best efforts to be involved. I always figured it was something about me as an individual but, on DCUM, I see there is a lot of negativity towards and stereotyping of Asians. I don't know if this is actually common in real life in the DC area. I am shocked by the attitude because part of what I like about this area is the diversity.
My question is whether you feel less comfortable befriending someone who is non-white, or specifically of Asian origin, than you do someone who is white.
This is an anonymous forum, so please be honest.
Not at all. I am upper middle class white mom, born in the mid-west and I have a hard time making mom-friends here too. I've been here long enough, but I just feel like people stick to themselves more and only make friends when they are repeatedly in the same place (i.e. soccer parents become "friends" during soccer season, then never see each other again). It's not as easy to run into people we know b/c there are so many grocery stores and people have so many commitments -- unlike in a smaller town where everyone is kind of going to the same places/events.
It's not just you and I don't think it has anything to do with being Asian.
Anonymous
09/26/2014 13:32
Subject: Re:Question for white, upper middle class moms
Honestly, OP, I don't think you want to go here.
Some Asian parents can behave in ways that seem off-putting to typical white, upper middle-class parents. Do you really want examples? At the end of the day, we need to deal with each other as individuals, don't we?
Some Asian parents can behave in ways that seem off-putting to typical white, upper middle-class parents. Do you really want examples? At the end of the day, we need to deal with each other as individuals, don't we?