Or don't have so many wars.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Because only a saint or someone of very good character can treat multiple wives with complete fairness and equity. Yet after wars in 600 AD when women were left widows and could not support themselves, what was to happen to them? Only the men of the best character could even consider taking on an additional wife.

I don't think that's true, factually speaking. I'm sure this is what the Quran envisaged (and even then, I again reiterate that it seems strange to go into great lengths on how exactly to marry more than one, and then mention briefly "oh it seems difficult, you can't do it.")

Most of Muhammad's contemporaries were polygamous. Are there reliable reports of him discouraging this? I'm sure lots and lots of men considered additional wives.

God himself discouraged it as evidenced by the verses I provided. The issue of unsupported women were a problem in 600 AD. What do you think were alternatives for women? How would they support themselves and their children back then if their husband or fathers were killed?

Get married to single men or widowers.

OP here. Off for a few hours now. I will answer questions later!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Because only a saint or someone of very good character can treat multiple wives with complete fairness and equity. Yet after wars in 600 AD when women were left widows and could not support themselves, what was to happen to them? Only the men of the best character could even consider taking on an additional wife.

I don't think that's true, factually speaking. I'm sure this is what the Quran envisaged (and even then, I again reiterate that it seems strange to go into great lengths on how exactly to marry more than one, and then mention briefly "oh it seems difficult, you can't do it.")

Most of Muhammad's contemporaries were polygamous. Are there reliable reports of him discouraging this? I'm sure lots and lots of men considered additional wives.

God himself discouraged it as evidenced by the verses I provided. The issue of unsupported women were a problem in 600 AD. What do you think were alternatives for women? How would they support themselves and their children back then if their husband or fathers were killed?

Anonymous wrote:

Because only a saint or someone of very good character can treat multiple wives with complete fairness and equity. Yet after wars in 600 AD when women were left widows and could not support themselves, what was to happen to them? Only the men of the best character could even consider taking on an additional wife.

There is actually an equally strong argument to be made that just as men disproportionately died in wars, women disproportionately died in childbirth and pregnancy. So the loss of men through wars was at least somewhat counterbalanced by the loss of women of reproductive age due to, well, reproduction.

Anonymous wrote:
Because only a saint or someone of very good character can treat multiple wives with complete fairness and equity. Yet after wars in 600 AD when women were left widows and could not support themselves, what was to happen to them? Only the men of the best character could even consider taking on an additional wife.

I don't think that's true, factually speaking. I'm sure this is what the Quran envisaged (and even then, I again reiterate that it seems strange to go into great lengths on how exactly to marry more than one, and then mention briefly "oh it seems difficult, you can't do it.")

Most of Muhammad's contemporaries were polygamous. Are there reliable reports of him discouraging this? I'm sure lots and lots of men considered additional wives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster and others who wanted to know why WOMEN are converting to Islam….

Please keep in mind, I do not think there is anything wrong with Christianity, nor is my purpose to proselytize. This is not to say Muslims don't proselytize. They do as do Christians. But that's not my intention here. From the Muslim standpoint, good Christians are going to Heaven too.

I simply saw another Muslim woman, Muslima being harassed and saw inaccuracies posted by our rabid Islam haters. So I simply want to dispel myths and also to explain the reason why people are converting.

Please remember I have not confirmed all of the statements in this article.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/women_why_converting.htm

In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only under certain situations (with the wife's permission)and prefers you marry only one wife {Koran 4:3} The Koran gives the woman the right to choose who to marry.

I'm glad you acknowledge you can't confirm all the statements in that article. Because the bit about requiring the permission of the first wife to all others is absolute nonsense. Unless you mean permission of other wives to marry each of them. In that case, you are correct that Islam requires the woman's consent for marriage.

But consent of the first wife is not required for all subsequent marriages.

Here's the deal. The man must deal justly and fairly between wives if he has more than one. This is a requirement. Yet the Quran then says:
Quran (4:129) - "Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire." This underscores that a man is not able to treat multiple wives fairly. So the Quran permitted it in 600 AD yet put requirements that only practically a saint would be able to meet.

See, this is why you need to study the Quran well. You clearly haven't.

It seems weird that the Quran would go into the great length of describing how multiple wives ought to be treated, mention the word "wives" throughout, and then almost in passing, say "you won't be able to do it." Would have been easier just to say "this is impossible, don't do it."

Besides, Muhammad's companions were largely polygamous. Are there reliable reports of him prescribing monogamy to the people around him? I mean people who weren't married to his only daughter.

Because only a saint or someone of very good character can treat multiple wives with complete fairness and equity. Yet after wars in 600 AD when women were left widows and could not support themselves, what was to happen to them? Only the men of the best character could even consider taking on an additional wife.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster and others who wanted to know why WOMEN are converting to Islam….

Please keep in mind, I do not think there is anything wrong with Christianity, nor is my purpose to proselytize. This is not to say Muslims don't proselytize. They do as do Christians. But that's not my intention here. From the Muslim standpoint, good Christians are going to Heaven too.

I simply saw another Muslim woman, Muslima being harassed and saw inaccuracies posted by our rabid Islam haters. So I simply want to dispel myths and also to explain the reason why people are converting.

Please remember I have not confirmed all of the statements in this article.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/women_why_converting.htm

In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only under certain situations (with the wife's permission)and prefers you marry only one wife {Koran 4:3} The Koran gives the woman the right to choose who to marry.

I'm glad you acknowledge you can't confirm all the statements in that article. Because the bit about requiring the permission of the first wife to all others is absolute nonsense. Unless you mean permission of other wives to marry each of them. In that case, you are correct that Islam requires the woman's consent for marriage.

But consent of the first wife is not required for all subsequent marriages.

Here's the deal. The man must deal justly and fairly between wives if he has more than one. This is a requirement. Yet the Quran then says:
Quran (4:129) - "Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire." This underscores that a man is not able to treat multiple wives fairly. So the Quran permitted it in 600 AD yet put requirements that only practically a saint would be able to meet.

See, this is why you need to study the Quran well. You clearly haven't.

It seems weird that the Quran would go into the great length of describing how multiple wives ought to be treated, mention the word "wives" throughout, and then almost in passing, say "you won't be able to do it." Would have been easier just to say "this is impossible, don't do it."

Besides, Muhammad's companions were largely polygamous. Are there reliable reports of him prescribing monogamy to the people around him? I mean people who weren't married to his only daughter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster and others who wanted to know why WOMEN are converting to Islam….

Please keep in mind, I do not think there is anything wrong with Christianity, nor is my purpose to proselytize. This is not to say Muslims don't proselytize. They do as do Christians. But that's not my intention here. From the Muslim standpoint, good Christians are going to Heaven too.

I simply saw another Muslim woman, Muslima being harassed and saw inaccuracies posted by our rabid Islam haters. So I simply want to dispel myths and also to explain the reason why people are converting.

Please remember I have not confirmed all of the statements in this article.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/women_why_converting.htm

In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only under certain situations (with the wife's permission)and prefers you marry only one wife {Koran 4:3} The Koran gives the woman the right to choose who to marry.

I'm glad you acknowledge you can't confirm all the statements in that article. Because the bit about requiring the permission of the first wife to all others is absolute nonsense. Unless you mean permission of other wives to marry each of them. In that case, you are correct that Islam requires the woman's consent for marriage.

But consent of the first wife is not required for all subsequent marriages.

Here's the deal. The man must deal justly and fairly between wives if he has more than one. This is a requirement. Yet the Quran then says:
Quran (4:129) - "Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire." This underscores that a man is not able to treat multiple wives fairly. So the Quran permitted it in 600 AD yet put requirements that only practically a saint would be able to meet.

See, this is why you need to study the Quran well. You clearly haven't.

Then why not just say it outright? Why introduce BS like "permission of first wife required"?

For the jokes?

You both seem to think of religion as a competition. People who are really secure in their faith, whether they're Muslim, Christian, or Other, aren't obsessed with trying to convince anyone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster and others who wanted to know why WOMEN are converting to Islam….

Please keep in mind, I do not think there is anything wrong with Christianity, nor is my purpose to proselytize. This is not to say Muslims don't proselytize. They do as do Christians. But that's not my intention here. From the Muslim standpoint, good Christians are going to Heaven too.

I simply saw another Muslim woman, Muslima being harassed and saw inaccuracies posted by our rabid Islam haters. So I simply want to dispel myths and also to explain the reason why people are converting.

Please remember I have not confirmed all of the statements in this article.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/women_why_converting.htm

In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only under certain situations (with the wife's permission)and prefers you marry only one wife {Koran 4:3} The Koran gives the woman the right to choose who to marry.

I'm glad you acknowledge you can't confirm all the statements in that article. Because the bit about requiring the permission of the first wife to all others is absolute nonsense. Unless you mean permission of other wives to marry each of them. In that case, you are correct that Islam requires the woman's consent for marriage.

But consent of the first wife is not required for all subsequent marriages.

Here's the deal. The man must deal justly and fairly between wives if he has more than one. This is a requirement. Yet the Quran then says:
Quran (4:129) - "Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire." This underscores that a man is not able to treat multiple wives fairly. So the Quran permitted it in 600 AD yet put requirements that only practically a saint would be able to meet.

See, this is why you need to study the Quran well. You clearly haven't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here.

No conversions necessary! There are many ways to God!

Thank God that one does not need the Sharia to be a Muslim. And thank God the US does not have the Sharia!

To be a Muslim, all that is necessary is belief in the authenticity of the Quran.

It looks like I have a rabid following of Islam haters.

Have you looked at the Muslim proclamation of faith? I'll break it down for you.

Ashadu illaha illallah wa Muhammad rasullulah. I testify that there is no god but God and that Muhammad is his messenger.

The word "Quran" ain't even in it.

You can believe in the authenticity of the Quran, but if you ascribe others to God, you're not a Muslim. If you don't believe Muhammad is his messenger, you're not a Muslim.

You're welcome.

You want to break it down for me when you can't even get the Arabic transliteration correct? Ummm…okay. The shahada, which is what the proclamation to become a Muslim is requires belief in the oneness of Allah and that Muhammad is the LAST messenger. If you believe in Muhammad, you will also believe in the authenticity of the Quran as the word of God.

However, good Christians and Jews from the Islamic perspective may still go to Heaven without believing Muhammad is the last messenger. God does not expect people to believe in Muhammad as messenger if the message never came to them.

By this logic, Christians and Jews who did hear the message but didn't want to take it, don't qualify.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here.

No conversions necessary! There are many ways to God!

Thank God that one does not need the Sharia to be a Muslim. And thank God the US does not have the Sharia!

To be a Muslim, all that is necessary is belief in the authenticity of the Quran.

It looks like I have a rabid following of Islam haters.

Have you looked at the Muslim proclamation of faith? I'll break it down for you.

Ashadu illaha illallah wa Muhammad rasullulah. I testify that there is no god but God and that Muhammad is his messenger.

The word "Quran" ain't even in it.

You can believe in the authenticity of the Quran, but if you ascribe others to God, you're not a Muslim. If you don't believe Muhammad is his messenger, you're not a Muslim.

You're welcome.

You want to break it down for me when you can't even get the Arabic transliteration correct? Ummm…okay. The shahada, which is what the proclamation to become a Muslim is requires belief in the oneness of Allah and that Muhammad is the LAST messenger. If you believe in Muhammad, you will also believe in the authenticity of the Quran as the word of God.

However, good Christians and Jews from the Islamic perspective may still go to Heaven without believing Muhammad is the last messenger. God does not expect people to believe in Muhammad as messenger if the message never came to them.

jsteele wrote:
It is clearly useless to talk to you because you don't pay attention to my replies. So, have a nice day.

Jeff, excuse me for attributing motives to you, but it seems to me that you're biased. I'll let others who have accused you of bias where OP is concerned (your "singling out" charge to that other poster) explain themselves. But here's my explanation.

Why do I think you're biased? Because your clever sense of irony is directly at me, and never at OP who has given endless cause for irony.

You call me out for saying the word "mission" but you never call out OP on her (pretty hilarious) insults and her pretty appalling distortions.

Surely you could find some irony in OP's endless jeremiads about how everybody else is is an evangelist-christian-islamophobe or a bipolar nutcase (see OP's rant last night to the other PP) or a bad cook or unemployed/unemployable and more. Yet, you never call out OP for her many distortions and insults. You never comment on OP's egregious behavior.

That's the bias I see.