^^11:59, thank you for sharing about the NAS. While we will agree to disagree about policy, I am glad I am aware of this organization and its policies.

Very enlightening.

Chapters of the NAS have been involved in a number of campus controversies related to affirmative action and multicultural studies programs. According to People for the American Way, NAS faculty at the University of Texas, Austin blocked the inclusion of civil rights readings in an English course; the readings had been proposed to address concerns about racial and sexual harassment on campus.[30] In 1990, the NAS placed an advertisement in the Daily Texan (the University of Texas student newspaper), calling for the rejection of a proposed multiculturalism curriculum at the University of Texas.[35] Simultaneously, the NAS encouraged a successful campaign to defund the university's Chicano newspaper.[30]

In 1990, a Duke University chapter of the NAS was formed by political science professor James David Barber. The new chapter provoked "a sometimes bitter debate" about the NAS stances on race and gender, and on whether academic freedom should extend to what NAS critics viewed as intolerance. Stanley Fish, chairman of the English department at Duke, wrote that NAS "is widely known to be racist, sexist and homophobic." In an interview with the Durham Morning Herald, Barber called Fish "an embarrassment to this university for his gross insult to this organization." In response to the NAS chapter formation, a larger group of faculty formed "Duke Faculty for Academic Tolerance"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naviance and talking to your student's guidance counselor can yield the best information. That said, the top top colleges are a crap shoot unless you have a hook (won state science fair, nationally top ten ranked in his/her sport, grandfather just gave $2M, won a Nobel or Pulitzer Prize, discovered a treatment for Ebola....). It doesn't mean not to take the crap shoot if you think you may be one of the lucky ones, but make sure you have a backup.

you forgot URM. the score gap between asian and black at a place like princeton is insane. A black kid with 2100 boards and decent grades will get into multiple top 10 schools.

I was reading an analysis of this for UVA; being Black gives a massive boost; being Hispanic gives a significantly smaller advantage. In another article the average Black student at UVA has a ~1050 on the SATs and the average white student had a ~1350.

Here: http://www.nas.org/images/documents/report_affirmative_action_at_three_universities.pdf

Some interesting stats:

The odds ratio for blacks compared to whites at NCS is 13 to 1, but at UVA it is 106 to 1 and at William &Mary 267 to 1. In other words, at UVA the odds of a black student being admitted is more than 100 times the odds of admission of a white student with the same qualifications. The odds of admitting a black applicant at William & Mary is more than 250 times the odds of admitting an equally-qualified white applicant. The odds ratios for Asians at all three schools are less than one, meaning that Asians are less likely to be admitted than equally-qualified whites (the odds ratio for Asians at UVA is not statistically significant). The odds ratios for Hispanics are 2.8 and 1.9 at UVA and NCS, respectively, but less than one at W&M.

This is absurd. By these stats, not just UVA but many colleges would be majority African American. That certainly is not the case, and it's misleading to consistently suggest that black applicants get this 'massive boost' in admissions.

UCLA has a significant Asian admittance rating and, using your words, the odds are more than 100 times the odds of a qualified white or black student to be admitted.

I don't follow your reasoning. How would top colleges be majority AA? Do you think there are a ton of Black students out there with high SAT scores? The average SAT scores for Blacks in the US was about 860. And these aren't "my" stats or words; they came from the article supplied. They were obtained using FOIA. I think anyone who doesn't think that being Black gives you a big advantage in selective college admittance is being willfully obtuse.

If you think Black kids are getting into Ivy schools with inferior grades, scores, and aptitudes then it is you who is obtuse. Do you really think places like Harvard would let anyone in who couldn't hold their own academically regardless of color?

So concerned about the handful of qualified Black applicants being admitted while Asians and other foreign applicants have systematically snatched up far more seats than Blacks.

Where is the outrage?

I think these admittance figures are misleading. I would bet that there are lots of white kids who reach for schools that they might not get into, but their African American counterparts probably don't do this as often. Black kids often don't have the same family history of attendance at competitive institutions so they aren't getting encouraged to apply by their parents. Instead, guidance counselors encourage top minority students to apply to places.

But AA students with scores lower than the white kids "reaching" for schools are admitted at rates >70% for a school like UVA. 55% of AA students at UVA with SAT's between 950-1050 got admitted, compared to 15% of white students. 75% are let in with scores between 1050-1150 vs. 20% for white students. As an aside, I'm shocked that anybody is getting into UVA with SAT's in the 900s. I wonder how many are athletes?

UVA's black undergrad student body is 6%. Where are your stats for UVA's scores?

http://www.virginia.edu/Facts/Glance_Enrollment.html

Here: http://www.virginia.edu/oaaa/doc_debate.html

and Here: http://www.nas.org/images/documents/report_affirmative_action_at_three_universities.pdf


From the second document:

Chart 2 shows the likelihood of being admitted to UVA or NCS for black and white
applicants according to their SAT scores. The largest differences in the likelihood of admission
at UVA occur for the SAT ranges 950 to 1350, where more than 70% of black students are
admitted compared to only about 25% of white students. About half of all white applicants score
in this range, compared to more than three-fourths of black applicants. The median SAT score
for all UVA admissions is 1350, while the average for admitted black students is 1026.

Thank you for sharing this. I am one for facts versus emotion when debating. With that said, I did a bit of research about the author and his associations. The author of the publication is associated with the NAS (National Association of Scholars) whose mantra is ".....The National Association of Scholars (NAS) is a non-profit organization in the United States that criticizes multiculturalism and opposes affirmative action and seeks to counter what it considers a liberal bias in academia.[1][not in citation given][2]

The NAS describes itself as "an independent membership association of academics working to foster intellectual freedom and to sustain the tradition of reasoned scholarship and civil debate in America’s colleges and universities."[3] The NAS is generally viewed as a politically conservative advocacy group,[4][5] although it rejects the label."

So, I would question the biased opinions and stats of the author. However, it's about free speech and his right to say it, right or wrong. A Phd is not indicative of veracity of writings regardless who's doing the writing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naviance and talking to your student's guidance counselor can yield the best information. That said, the top top colleges are a crap shoot unless you have a hook (won state science fair, nationally top ten ranked in his/her sport, grandfather just gave $2M, won a Nobel or Pulitzer Prize, discovered a treatment for Ebola....). It doesn't mean not to take the crap shoot if you think you may be one of the lucky ones, but make sure you have a backup.

you forgot URM. the score gap between asian and black at a place like princeton is insane. A black kid with 2100 boards and decent grades will get into multiple top 10 schools.

I was reading an analysis of this for UVA; being Black gives a massive boost; being Hispanic gives a significantly smaller advantage. In another article the average Black student at UVA has a ~1050 on the SATs and the average white student had a ~1350.

Here: http://www.nas.org/images/documents/report_affirmative_action_at_three_universities.pdf

Some interesting stats:

The odds ratio for blacks compared to whites at NCS is 13 to 1, but at UVA it is 106 to 1 and at William &Mary 267 to 1. In other words, at UVA the odds of a black student being admitted is more than 100 times the odds of admission of a white student with the same qualifications. The odds of admitting a black applicant at William & Mary is more than 250 times the odds of admitting an equally-qualified white applicant. The odds ratios for Asians at all three schools are less than one, meaning that Asians are less likely to be admitted than equally-qualified whites (the odds ratio for Asians at UVA is not statistically significant). The odds ratios for Hispanics are 2.8 and 1.9 at UVA and NCS, respectively, but less than one at W&M.

This is absurd. By these stats, not just UVA but many colleges would be majority African American. That certainly is not the case, and it's misleading to consistently suggest that black applicants get this 'massive boost' in admissions.

UCLA has a significant Asian admittance rating and, using your words, the odds are more than 100 times the odds of a qualified white or black student to be admitted.

I don't follow your reasoning. How would top colleges be majority AA? Do you think there are a ton of Black students out there with high SAT scores? The average SAT scores for Blacks in the US was about 860. And these aren't "my" stats or words; they came from the article supplied. They were obtained using FOIA. I think anyone who doesn't think that being Black gives you a big advantage in selective college admittance is being willfully obtuse.

If you think Black kids are getting into Ivy schools with inferior grades, scores, and aptitudes then it is you who is obtuse. Do you really think places like Harvard would let anyone in who couldn't hold their own academically regardless of color?

So concerned about the handful of qualified Black applicants being admitted while Asians and other foreign applicants have systematically snatched up far more seats than Blacks.

Where is the outrage?

I think these admittance figures are misleading. I would bet that there are lots of white kids who reach for schools that they might not get into, but their African American counterparts probably don't do this as often. Black kids often don't have the same family history of attendance at competitive institutions so they aren't getting encouraged to apply by their parents. Instead, guidance counselors encourage top minority students to apply to places.

But AA students with scores lower than the white kids "reaching" for schools are admitted at rates >70% for a school like UVA. 55% of AA students at UVA with SAT's between 950-1050 got admitted, compared to 15% of white students. 75% are let in with scores between 1050-1150 vs. 20% for white students. As an aside, I'm shocked that anybody is getting into UVA with SAT's in the 900s. I wonder how many are athletes?

UVA's black undergrad student body is 6%. Where are your stats for UVA's scores?

http://www.virginia.edu/Facts/Glance_Enrollment.html

Here: http://www.virginia.edu/oaaa/doc_debate.html

and Here: http://www.nas.org/images/documents/report_affirmative_action_at_three_universities.pdf


From the second document:

Chart 2 shows the likelihood of being admitted to UVA or NCS for black and white
applicants according to their SAT scores. The largest differences in the likelihood of admission
at UVA occur for the SAT ranges 950 to 1350, where more than 70% of black students are
admitted compared to only about 25% of white students. About half of all white applicants score
in this range, compared to more than three-fourths of black applicants. The median SAT score
for all UVA admissions is 1350, while the average for admitted black students is 1026.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why any of you think that 'unqualified' white kids aren't getting some of the coveted seats also. George W. Bush is a prime example who also candidly admitted that he was a 'C' student and proud of it.

And don't forget your young, white farm hand who's holding a solid 'B' but would never have the opportunity to attend a far reach school.

Some of you are so intent on placing blame on Black kids taking that last coveted seat(s) that you forget there are many non-Black kids that fit into 'special' categories that are highly desirable for 'diversity' and are admitted. But they don't have a visual 'diversity.'

OMG, George Bush graduated from Yale in 1968. That's totally irrelevant to today's college admissions.

It is not irrelevant. The same mindset of yesteryear is basically the same today. Nobody complained back then and nobody complains today if a white 'C' student beats out a white 'A-B' student because you would NEVER know or suspect unless you were told. However, seeing a black student, you would automatically assume that s/he was admitted because they are black.

Think not? Go back and read some of the comments in this thread.

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why any of you think that 'unqualified' white kids aren't getting some of the coveted seats also. George W. Bush is a prime example who also candidly admitted that he was a 'C' student and proud of it.

And don't forget your young, white farm hand who's holding a solid 'B' but would never have the opportunity to attend a far reach school.

Some of you are so intent on placing blame on Black kids taking that last coveted seat(s) that you forget there are many non-Black kids that fit into 'special' categories that are highly desirable for 'diversity' and are admitted. But they don't have a visual 'diversity.'

OMG, George Bush graduated from Yale in 1968. That's totally irrelevant to today's college admissions.

Anonymous wrote:Should this white student be denied admittance to an Ivy or any other school?

'He ranks 11 out of a class of 647, scored 2250 out of 2400 on his SAT college admissions test, took 11 Advanced Placement classes in high school, sings in the a cappella group, is an accomplished violist and athlete. He also makes time to volunteer at a local hospital.'

My white kid had very similar stats, except took 10 APs and wasn't in to music (although had other activities) and was rejected at lesser schools than ivies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naviance and talking to your student's guidance counselor can yield the best information. That said, the top top colleges are a crap shoot unless you have a hook (won state science fair, nationally top ten ranked in his/her sport, grandfather just gave $2M, won a Nobel or Pulitzer Prize, discovered a treatment for Ebola....). It doesn't mean not to take the crap shoot if you think you may be one of the lucky ones, but make sure you have a backup.

you forgot URM. the score gap between asian and black at a place like princeton is insane. A black kid with 2100 boards and decent grades will get into multiple top 10 schools.

I was reading an analysis of this for UVA; being Black gives a massive boost; being Hispanic gives a significantly smaller advantage. In another article the average Black student at UVA has a ~1050 on the SATs and the average white student had a ~1350.

Here: http://www.nas.org/images/documents/report_affirmative_action_at_three_universities.pdf

Some interesting stats:

The odds ratio for blacks compared to whites at NCS is 13 to 1, but at UVA it is 106 to 1 and at William &Mary 267 to 1. In other words, at UVA the odds of a black student being admitted is more than 100 times the odds of admission of a white student with the same qualifications. The odds of admitting a black applicant at William & Mary is more than 250 times the odds of admitting an equally-qualified white applicant. The odds ratios for Asians at all three schools are less than one, meaning that Asians are less likely to be admitted than equally-qualified whites (the odds ratio for Asians at UVA is not statistically significant). The odds ratios for Hispanics are 2.8 and 1.9 at UVA and NCS, respectively, but less than one at W&M.

This is absurd. By these stats, not just UVA but many colleges would be majority African American. That certainly is not the case, and it's misleading to consistently suggest that black applicants get this 'massive boost' in admissions.

UCLA has a significant Asian admittance rating and, using your words, the odds are more than 100 times the odds of a qualified white or black student to be admitted.

I don't follow your reasoning. How would top colleges be majority AA? Do you think there are a ton of Black students out there with high SAT scores? The average SAT scores for Blacks in the US was about 860. And these aren't "my" stats or words; they came from the article supplied. They were obtained using FOIA. I think anyone who doesn't think that being Black gives you a big advantage in selective college admittance is being willfully obtuse.

If you think Black kids are getting into Ivy schools with inferior grades, scores, and aptitudes then it is you who is obtuse. Do you really think places like Harvard would let anyone in who couldn't hold their own academically regardless of color?

So concerned about the handful of qualified Black applicants being admitted while Asians and other foreign applicants have systematically snatched up far more seats than Blacks.

Where is the outrage?

I'm sorry, but the fact is that African Americans ARE admitted with stats " inferior" to those of more qualified students of other races who get rejected. It's not that they aren't accomplished. Clearly they are. There is just a sense of unfairness when others with greater accomplishments based on those same measures are denied the same opportunity because of their skin color. Why is that hard to understand? There is not so much "outrage" about Asian and other foreign admits because the standards aren't lowered for them.

This has your name written all over it. This link is especially for you.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/03/05/black-students-harvard-tumblr/6013023/

^^Quick math....out of 16,087 undergrad students, 965 of them are black (6%) according to the official UVA stats. 965.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naviance and talking to your student's guidance counselor can yield the best information. That said, the top top colleges are a crap shoot unless you have a hook (won state science fair, nationally top ten ranked in his/her sport, grandfather just gave $2M, won a Nobel or Pulitzer Prize, discovered a treatment for Ebola....). It doesn't mean not to take the crap shoot if you think you may be one of the lucky ones, but make sure you have a backup.

you forgot URM. the score gap between asian and black at a place like princeton is insane. A black kid with 2100 boards and decent grades will get into multiple top 10 schools.

I was reading an analysis of this for UVA; being Black gives a massive boost; being Hispanic gives a significantly smaller advantage. In another article the average Black student at UVA has a ~1050 on the SATs and the average white student had a ~1350.

Here: http://www.nas.org/images/documents/report_affirmative_action_at_three_universities.pdf

Some interesting stats:

The odds ratio for blacks compared to whites at NCS is 13 to 1, but at UVA it is 106 to 1 and at William &Mary 267 to 1. In other words, at UVA the odds of a black student being admitted is more than 100 times the odds of admission of a white student with the same qualifications. The odds of admitting a black applicant at William & Mary is more than 250 times the odds of admitting an equally-qualified white applicant. The odds ratios for Asians at all three schools are less than one, meaning that Asians are less likely to be admitted than equally-qualified whites (the odds ratio for Asians at UVA is not statistically significant). The odds ratios for Hispanics are 2.8 and 1.9 at UVA and NCS, respectively, but less than one at W&M.

This is absurd. By these stats, not just UVA but many colleges would be majority African American. That certainly is not the case, and it's misleading to consistently suggest that black applicants get this 'massive boost' in admissions.

UCLA has a significant Asian admittance rating and, using your words, the odds are more than 100 times the odds of a qualified white or black student to be admitted.

I don't follow your reasoning. How would top colleges be majority AA? Do you think there are a ton of Black students out there with high SAT scores? The average SAT scores for Blacks in the US was about 860. And these aren't "my" stats or words; they came from the article supplied. They were obtained using FOIA. I think anyone who doesn't think that being Black gives you a big advantage in selective college admittance is being willfully obtuse.

If you think Black kids are getting into Ivy schools with inferior grades, scores, and aptitudes then it is you who is obtuse. Do you really think places like Harvard would let anyone in who couldn't hold their own academically regardless of color?

So concerned about the handful of qualified Black applicants being admitted while Asians and other foreign applicants have systematically snatched up far more seats than Blacks.

Where is the outrage?

I think these admittance figures are misleading. I would bet that there are lots of white kids who reach for schools that they might not get into, but their African American counterparts probably don't do this as often. Black kids often don't have the same family history of attendance at competitive institutions so they aren't getting encouraged to apply by their parents. Instead, guidance counselors encourage top minority students to apply to places.

But AA students with scores lower than the white kids "reaching" for schools are admitted at rates >70% for a school like UVA. 55% of AA students at UVA with SAT's between 950-1050 got admitted, compared to 15% of white students. 75% are let in with scores between 1050-1150 vs. 20% for white students. As an aside, I'm shocked that anybody is getting into UVA with SAT's in the 900s. I wonder how many are athletes?

UVA's black undergrad student body is 6%. Where are your stats for UVA's scores?

http://www.virginia.edu/Facts/Glance_Enrollment.html

Should this white student be denied admittance to an Ivy or any other school?

'He ranks 11 out of a class of 647, scored 2250 out of 2400 on his SAT college admissions test, took 11 Advanced Placement classes in high school, sings in the a cappella group, is an accomplished violist and athlete. He also makes time to volunteer at a local hospital.'

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naviance and talking to your student's guidance counselor can yield the best information. That said, the top top colleges are a crap shoot unless you have a hook (won state science fair, nationally top ten ranked in his/her sport, grandfather just gave $2M, won a Nobel or Pulitzer Prize, discovered a treatment for Ebola....). It doesn't mean not to take the crap shoot if you think you may be one of the lucky ones, but make sure you have a backup.

you forgot URM. the score gap between asian and black at a place like princeton is insane. A black kid with 2100 boards and decent grades will get into multiple top 10 schools.

I was reading an analysis of this for UVA; being Black gives a massive boost; being Hispanic gives a significantly smaller advantage. In another article the average Black student at UVA has a ~1050 on the SATs and the average white student had a ~1350.

Here: http://www.nas.org/images/documents/report_affirmative_action_at_three_universities.pdf

Some interesting stats:

The odds ratio for blacks compared to whites at NCS is 13 to 1, but at UVA it is 106 to 1 and at William &Mary 267 to 1. In other words, at UVA the odds of a black student being admitted is more than 100 times the odds of admission of a white student with the same qualifications. The odds of admitting a black applicant at William & Mary is more than 250 times the odds of admitting an equally-qualified white applicant. The odds ratios for Asians at all three schools are less than one, meaning that Asians are less likely to be admitted than equally-qualified whites (the odds ratio for Asians at UVA is not statistically significant). The odds ratios for Hispanics are 2.8 and 1.9 at UVA and NCS, respectively, but less than one at W&M.

This is absurd. By these stats, not just UVA but many colleges would be majority African American. That certainly is not the case, and it's misleading to consistently suggest that black applicants get this 'massive boost' in admissions.

UCLA has a significant Asian admittance rating and, using your words, the odds are more than 100 times the odds of a qualified white or black student to be admitted.

I don't follow your reasoning. How would top colleges be majority AA? Do you think there are a ton of Black students out there with high SAT scores? The average SAT scores for Blacks in the US was about 860. And these aren't "my" stats or words; they came from the article supplied. They were obtained using FOIA. I think anyone who doesn't think that being Black gives you a big advantage in selective college admittance is being willfully obtuse.

If you think Black kids are getting into Ivy schools with inferior grades, scores, and aptitudes then it is you who is obtuse. Do you really think places like Harvard would let anyone in who couldn't hold their own academically regardless of color?

So concerned about the handful of qualified Black applicants being admitted while Asians and other foreign applicants have systematically snatched up far more seats than Blacks.

Where is the outrage?

I think these admittance figures are misleading. I would bet that there are lots of white kids who reach for schools that they might not get into, but their African American counterparts probably don't do this as often. Black kids often don't have the same family history of attendance at competitive institutions so they aren't getting encouraged to apply by their parents. Instead, guidance counselors encourage top minority students to apply to places.

But AA students with scores lower than the white kids "reaching" for schools are admitted at rates >70% for a school like UVA. 55% of AA students at UVA with SAT's between 950-1050 got admitted, compared to 15% of white students. 75% are let in with scores between 1050-1150 vs. 20% for white students. As an aside, I'm shocked that anybody is getting into UVA with SAT's in the 900s. I wonder how many are athletes?

Not sure why any of you think that 'unqualified' white kids aren't getting some of the coveted seats also. George W. Bush is a prime example who also candidly admitted that he was a 'C' student and proud of it.

And don't forget your young, white farm hand who's holding a solid 'B' but would never have the opportunity to attend a far reach school.

Some of you are so intent on placing blame on Black kids taking that last coveted seat(s) that you forget there are many non-Black kids that fit into 'special' categories that are highly desirable for 'diversity' and are admitted. But they don't have a visual 'diversity.'

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naviance and talking to your student's guidance counselor can yield the best information. That said, the top top colleges are a crap shoot unless you have a hook (won state science fair, nationally top ten ranked in his/her sport, grandfather just gave $2M, won a Nobel or Pulitzer Prize, discovered a treatment for Ebola....). It doesn't mean not to take the crap shoot if you think you may be one of the lucky ones, but make sure you have a backup.

you forgot URM. the score gap between asian and black at a place like princeton is insane. A black kid with 2100 boards and decent grades will get into multiple top 10 schools.

I was reading an analysis of this for UVA; being Black gives a massive boost; being Hispanic gives a significantly smaller advantage. In another article the average Black student at UVA has a ~1050 on the SATs and the average white student had a ~1350.

Here: http://www.nas.org/images/documents/report_affirmative_action_at_three_universities.pdf

Some interesting stats:

The odds ratio for blacks compared to whites at NCS is 13 to 1, but at UVA it is 106 to 1 and at William &Mary 267 to 1. In other words, at UVA the odds of a black student being admitted is more than 100 times the odds of admission of a white student with the same qualifications. The odds of admitting a black applicant at William & Mary is more than 250 times the odds of admitting an equally-qualified white applicant. The odds ratios for Asians at all three schools are less than one, meaning that Asians are less likely to be admitted than equally-qualified whites (the odds ratio for Asians at UVA is not statistically significant). The odds ratios for Hispanics are 2.8 and 1.9 at UVA and NCS, respectively, but less than one at W&M.

This is absurd. By these stats, not just UVA but many colleges would be majority African American. That certainly is not the case, and it's misleading to consistently suggest that black applicants get this 'massive boost' in admissions.

UCLA has a significant Asian admittance rating and, using your words, the odds are more than 100 times the odds of a qualified white or black student to be admitted.

I don't follow your reasoning. How would top colleges be majority AA? Do you think there are a ton of Black students out there with high SAT scores? The average SAT scores for Blacks in the US was about 860. And these aren't "my" stats or words; they came from the article supplied. They were obtained using FOIA. I think anyone who doesn't think that being Black gives you a big advantage in selective college admittance is being willfully obtuse.

If you think Black kids are getting into Ivy schools with inferior grades, scores, and aptitudes then it is you who is obtuse. Do you really think places like Harvard would let anyone in who couldn't hold their own academically regardless of color?

So concerned about the handful of qualified Black applicants being admitted while Asians and other foreign applicants have systematically snatched up far more seats than Blacks.

Where is the outrage?

I'm sorry, but the fact is that African Americans ARE admitted with stats " inferior" to those of more qualified students of other races who get rejected. It's not that they aren't accomplished. Clearly they are. There is just a sense of unfairness when others with greater accomplishments based on those same measures are denied the same opportunity because of their skin color. Why is that hard to understand? There is not so much "outrage" about Asian and other foreign admits because the standards aren't lowered for them.

Bullshit. Period.

Well, every bit of real data out there contradicts you, Why do you say this is bullshit? I know; if AA students are getting in with equal stats then lets just remove race from college admittances! I think you would agree right? And I don't worry about Asians "snatching up seats"; they've earned them though grades/scores and hard work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naviance and talking to your student's guidance counselor can yield the best information. That said, the top top colleges are a crap shoot unless you have a hook (won state science fair, nationally top ten ranked in his/her sport, grandfather just gave $2M, won a Nobel or Pulitzer Prize, discovered a treatment for Ebola....). It doesn't mean not to take the crap shoot if you think you may be one of the lucky ones, but make sure you have a backup.

you forgot URM. the score gap between asian and black at a place like princeton is insane. A black kid with 2100 boards and decent grades will get into multiple top 10 schools.

I was reading an analysis of this for UVA; being Black gives a massive boost; being Hispanic gives a significantly smaller advantage. In another article the average Black student at UVA has a ~1050 on the SATs and the average white student had a ~1350.

Here: http://www.nas.org/images/documents/report_affirmative_action_at_three_universities.pdf

Some interesting stats:

The odds ratio for blacks compared to whites at NCS is 13 to 1, but at UVA it is 106 to 1 and at William &Mary 267 to 1. In other words, at UVA the odds of a black student being admitted is more than 100 times the odds of admission of a white student with the same qualifications. The odds of admitting a black applicant at William & Mary is more than 250 times the odds of admitting an equally-qualified white applicant. The odds ratios for Asians at all three schools are less than one, meaning that Asians are less likely to be admitted than equally-qualified whites (the odds ratio for Asians at UVA is not statistically significant). The odds ratios for Hispanics are 2.8 and 1.9 at UVA and NCS, respectively, but less than one at W&M.

This is absurd. By these stats, not just UVA but many colleges would be majority African American. That certainly is not the case, and it's misleading to consistently suggest that black applicants get this 'massive boost' in admissions.

UCLA has a significant Asian admittance rating and, using your words, the odds are more than 100 times the odds of a qualified white or black student to be admitted.

I don't follow your reasoning. How would top colleges be majority AA? Do you think there are a ton of Black students out there with high SAT scores? The average SAT scores for Blacks in the US was about 860. And these aren't "my" stats or words; they came from the article supplied. They were obtained using FOIA. I think anyone who doesn't think that being Black gives you a big advantage in selective college admittance is being willfully obtuse.

If you think Black kids are getting into Ivy schools with inferior grades, scores, and aptitudes then it is you who is obtuse. Do you really think places like Harvard would let anyone in who couldn't hold their own academically regardless of color?

So concerned about the handful of qualified Black applicants being admitted while Asians and other foreign applicants have systematically snatched up far more seats than Blacks.

Where is the outrage?

I think these admittance figures are misleading. I would bet that there are lots of white kids who reach for schools that they might not get into, but their African American counterparts probably don't do this as often. Black kids often don't have the same family history of attendance at competitive institutions so they aren't getting encouraged to apply by their parents. Instead, guidance counselors encourage top minority students to apply to places.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's racist even to separate our mixed culture into race categories . What exactly , makes a person "black" ? What exact features qualify you? Everybody should call themselves black and put an end to all of it . Force the liberal racists to pull out their calipers and measure nose and lip width so they can do their sick manipulation .

Of course it's racist to separate, treat and judge people according to the artificial construct we call race. When the government jumps on board gleefully we are beginning to look like South Africa under apartheid.

You are a little slow on the keyboard. Why so much of a delay in typing out a third comment supporting your own, original ignorant statement? Tick, tick, tick...

Not the PP but maybe the poster doesn't live on DCUM and might have other things going on in their life? Just a thought.

Yes, probably a time out to iron the sheets for the next meeting.

Well, that person isn't the only one ironing sheets in this thread.