Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The question I have, at least, for Muslim women, is what is the purpose of being covered? What is the spiritual significance, what is the spiritual benefit?

There are a myriad of reasons why, but the easy, one sentence answer is, because they believe God has made it an obligation for believing women. Muslims believe that their sole purpose in life is the worship of God alone, according to His instructions, as revealed in the Holy Quran, and through the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh). As such, wearing the hijab is an act of obedience to God and, hence, forms the primary basis for wearing it.In Islam, hijab is not demanded of women by men but is ordered upon women by the Merciful Ever-Living.

It is an outward symbol of an inward spiritual reality and aspiration.

Ok, I get that it is a religious observance, and an outward sign that you're "spiritual," but other than that, is there anything to it? Why would God request this particular action? What spiritual benefit is there to the actual action? And why aren't men given an analogous way of being spiritual? Or are they? I guess how I feel, is that this is something way too trivial for God to ask women to do unless there is a real spiritual benefit. This is my issue with a lot of tenets of Islam- there are lots of rules and obedience and obligation, and no joy to it, no "fruits" of spirituality. What is that spiritual benefit?

And you may say "hey, this shows the world that you are Muslim," but there's another side- in a Muslim country, not covering your hair shows that you are non-Muslim, and leads to a feeling of intimidation. I've experienced this myself, and I've known women who were told, outright, that they are in a Muslim country, it doesn't matter that they're Christian, a native of that country who never wore a hijab, they need to wear a hijab now. So, yeah, since you don't know any woman who has been forced to wear it, would that count as your first example?

From what I know (and forgive any mistakes), the Quranic verse usually associated with covering talks about it as a way to maintain modesty. In addition, in the Hadith (records of the sayings of the Prophet Mohammad), the wives of the Prophet were told to cover to set themselves apart for greater respect/recognition.

00:48 again. I just wanted to address this as I agree that too often now and certainly in past generations, religious has been taught through rules and regulations, enforced by fear of punishment (in the present or after death). But there really is a lot more to the Quran and other Islamic teachings. I find myself really focusing on these now that I am raising children of my own. I don't want them following rules out of fear, but out of a desire to connect spiritually. I know belief in God and religion has been important in my life, eventhough I do not regularly/strictly follow all the rules and rituals all the time. But my belief in Islamic teachings has carried me through very difficult times in life, times when I felt pretty alone, and I want my children to have that as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The question I have, at least, for Muslim women, is what is the purpose of being covered? What is the spiritual significance, what is the spiritual benefit?

There are a myriad of reasons why, but the easy, one sentence answer is, because they believe God has made it an obligation for believing women. Muslims believe that their sole purpose in life is the worship of God alone, according to His instructions, as revealed in the Holy Quran, and through the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh). As such, wearing the hijab is an act of obedience to God and, hence, forms the primary basis for wearing it.In Islam, hijab is not demanded of women by men but is ordered upon women by the Merciful Ever-Living.

It is an outward symbol of an inward spiritual reality and aspiration.

Ok, I get that it is a religious observance, and an outward sign that you're "spiritual," but other than that, is there anything to it? Why would God request this particular action? What spiritual benefit is there to the actual action? And why aren't men given an analogous way of being spiritual? Or are they? I guess how I feel, is that this is something way too trivial for God to ask women to do unless there is a real spiritual benefit. This is my issue with a lot of tenets of Islam- there are lots of rules and obedience and obligation, and no joy to it, no "fruits" of spirituality. What is that spiritual benefit?

And you may say "hey, this shows the world that you are Muslim," but there's another side- in a Muslim country, not covering your hair shows that you are non-Muslim, and leads to a feeling of intimidation. I've experienced this myself, and I've known women who were told, outright, that they are in a Muslim country, it doesn't matter that they're Christian, a native of that country who never wore a hijab, they need to wear a hijab now. So, yeah, since you don't know any woman who has been forced to wear it, would that count as your first example?

Well if you read what I wrote, I said "I never met one who was forced to wear it, but that doesn't mean they do not exist, but that is not the norm"

Now, why would God require this? God defines and God dignifies both men and women in their distinctiveness, and not in their sameness, and in However way He Chooses. Hijab is a symbol of our worship and servitude to Allah.But, since you asked, before we have a true and complete understanding of hijab and its real meaning, one needs to take a step back and start at the beginning. Allah says in the Quran (The Words of Allah), what means:

“We created not the heavens and the earth and all that is between them for a (mere) play.”

[Al-Anbiy?', 21:16]

In this verse Allah makes clear that everything He created has a purpose. Every star in the sky, every fish in the ocean, and every leaf on a tree was made for a specific reason. So too was the human being created for a specific purpose. Allah explains this purpose clearly in the Quran. He says what means:

“And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me.”

[Adh-Dh?riyat, 51:56]

It is important to note even the construction of this statement. Allah did not just say that He created jinn and mankind to worship Him. He began with a negation. He said: "I did not create the jinn and mankind." By saying it in this way, Allah begins by clearing the board from any other purpose before He states what our one and only purpose is: to worship Him and Him alone. Now, it is in that context that one should begin to understand the subject of hijab. Hijab should properly be seen as simply another show of devotion to our Creator. Just as we pray and fast because He commanded us to do so, we view hijab in the very same light.

Just as praying and fasting sincerely for Allah's pleasure brings us closer to Him, so too does wearing hijab, if done with the same sincerity. By obeying Allah's commandments, hijab is just another way to worship our Lord. And in so doing, it brings us closer to realizing our purpose of creation. Of course, to you someone who doesn't believe in Islam, this has no spiritual benefit, nobody can clearly explain the sweetness and taste of faith and peace that comes to the heart of the person who feels them when they truly believe! I don't understand why you are saying there is no joy to it, do you think muslim women who wear the hijab are miserable when they wear it? you can't believe that there is a sense of calmness, peace and happiness that they feel when they are practicing their religion? By Allah, I wish you could feel the joy in my heart when I obey one of His commands, and feel so blessed, so close to him that I cry out of amazement!

The issue I see is that you are putting too much emphasis on the outward aspects of religion and not enough on the inward; the outward is just the reflection of the inward, of course if the inward is non-existent, you will be resentful, angry, miserable, because you dont believe in what you are doing. But for the believer, her hijab is a “statement” that she loves God more than “society’s standards of beauty and fashion.” Her submission is to something higher than those things.

I really don't know how to explain it to you, it is an act of Love towards the creator, just like you choosing to do something for your husband that you love, people might look at you and say "woow that's crazy" , but because of your love towards him, you feel great joy and pleasure in doing it and nobody can explain that feeling!

00:48 here. By the way that verse is actually more focused on covering the chest, but people say the garment referred to in the original Arabic included a head covering. The verse also says to cover everything that is not ordinarily exposed. Obviously that is relative, depending on the context.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The question I have, at least, for Muslim women, is what is the purpose of being covered? What is the spiritual significance, what is the spiritual benefit?

There are a myriad of reasons why, but the easy, one sentence answer is, because they believe God has made it an obligation for believing women. Muslims believe that their sole purpose in life is the worship of God alone, according to His instructions, as revealed in the Holy Quran, and through the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh). As such, wearing the hijab is an act of obedience to God and, hence, forms the primary basis for wearing it.In Islam, hijab is not demanded of women by men but is ordered upon women by the Merciful Ever-Living.

It is an outward symbol of an inward spiritual reality and aspiration.

Ok, I get that it is a religious observance, and an outward sign that you're "spiritual," but other than that, is there anything to it? Why would God request this particular action? What spiritual benefit is there to the actual action? And why aren't men given an analogous way of being spiritual? Or are they? I guess how I feel, is that this is something way too trivial for God to ask women to do unless there is a real spiritual benefit. This is my issue with a lot of tenets of Islam- there are lots of rules and obedience and obligation, and no joy to it, no "fruits" of spirituality. What is that spiritual benefit?

And you may say "hey, this shows the world that you are Muslim," but there's another side- in a Muslim country, not covering your hair shows that you are non-Muslim, and leads to a feeling of intimidation. I've experienced this myself, and I've known women who were told, outright, that they are in a Muslim country, it doesn't matter that they're Christian, a native of that country who never wore a hijab, they need to wear a hijab now. So, yeah, since you don't know any woman who has been forced to wear it, would that count as your first example?

From what I know (and forgive any mistakes), the Quranic verse usually associated with covering talks about it as a way to maintain modesty. In addition, in the Hadith (records of the sayings of the Prophet Mohammad), the wives of the Prophet were told to cover to set themselves apart for greater respect/recognition.

The full face covering should be illegal. It prevents normal societal interaction and identification.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The question I have, at least, for Muslim women, is what is the purpose of being covered? What is the spiritual significance, what is the spiritual benefit?

There are a myriad of reasons why, but the easy, one sentence answer is, because they believe God has made it an obligation for believing women. Muslims believe that their sole purpose in life is the worship of God alone, according to His instructions, as revealed in the Holy Quran, and through the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh). As such, wearing the hijab is an act of obedience to God and, hence, forms the primary basis for wearing it.In Islam, hijab is not demanded of women by men but is ordered upon women by the Merciful Ever-Living.

It is an outward symbol of an inward spiritual reality and aspiration.

Ok, I get that it is a religious observance, and an outward sign that you're "spiritual," but other than that, is there anything to it? Why would God request this particular action? What spiritual benefit is there to the actual action? And why aren't men given an analogous way of being spiritual? Or are they? I guess how I feel, is that this is something way too trivial for God to ask women to do unless there is a real spiritual benefit. This is my issue with a lot of tenets of Islam- there are lots of rules and obedience and obligation, and no joy to it, no "fruits" of spirituality. What is that spiritual benefit?

And you may say "hey, this shows the world that you are Muslim," but there's another side- in a Muslim country, not covering your hair shows that you are non-Muslim, and leads to a feeling of intimidation. I've experienced this myself, and I've known women who were told, outright, that they are in a Muslim country, it doesn't matter that they're Christian, a native of that country who never wore a hijab, they need to wear a hijab now. So, yeah, since you don't know any woman who has been forced to wear it, would that count as your first example?

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone really think the full burqa with the face covering and everything should be allowed in public in America?

A man couldn't cover himself head to toe and wear a mask, and not be given a hard time in public, not be banned from stores, etc.

I am more and more irritated at places like Tysons when these mountains of black go wafting around. We have no idea who is under there, if they have bombs strapped to them, and so on.

When a person's identity is completely concealed, it should not be tolerated in public. Do that shit in your own home.

Speaking of Tysons, I saw a woman's light weight loose pants get stuck in an escalator there this summer. What about the burqa's and escalators? What about phys ed in public school? School shorts and T shirts? Are they exempt?

Anonymous wrote:This is pp, and I'll just come out and say it instead of waiting for the answer. The reason your post puts me off is that we're not "obsessed" with you. Not in the least. Get over yourself. We're concerned for the rights and safety of that "one woman" I mentioned. What could happen to a woman that chooses to dress herself (as *she* likes) in a miniskirt, a bikini, a tank top, and go about her business in public in Saudi Arabia? We're not "obsessed" with you. We're worried about her.

Anonymous wrote:My question is, in the many places in the world where women generally cover hair etc., what if one woman does NOT want to cover? In all of these places, is that okay? Can this woman go about her daily business dressed as she pleases completely at ease?

Muslima wrote:I posted this, didn't realize i wasn't logged in...

Anonymous wrote:OMG, Get a Hobby, go volunteer, feed a hungry kid. Muslim women don't wake up everyday thinking about you, why are you so obsessed with us? You want to make a change? With epedemic levels of domestic violence, rape and sexual harassment of women, with the sexualisation of young girls and women and the lack of equality in the workplace , challenge how women are treated in the West, you can make a difference! Rise above the assumptions surrounding the Muslim woman’s dress and speak to any Muslim woman on the streets of DC, London, Paris, New York, Cairo, Karachi, Ankara, Tunis, and even Kabul.

This falsely engineered narrative of what Muslim women think of their dress should not be tolerated. Not only is it patronising, suggesting that millions of educated women who adorn these garments globally and are active within their societies are not able to think for themselves or study their religion independent of male influence but is also highly misogynistic. Oppression is not defined by a piece of material, but rather by a sickening of the heart and a weakening of the mind. Oppression grows in a society that is crumbling because its members have lost sight of the true purpose of their existence. The stereotypes and assumptions that portray all Muslim women as complacent and voiceless individuals are oppressive in and of themselves.



Muslim women will stay with their hijabs, burqas, niqabs and tchadors, they are not going anywhere, we certainly don't need to be rescued .Liberation is worshipping the Creator and not the created!~

Sorry but maybe you missed the opening post of this thread. The OP states:

It's sort of sad how every thread related to Islam ultimately becomes a debate about headscarves. But I guess to many of us it is an interesting topic. to me, it's somewhat upsetting that a religious observance involves covering a woman's head, of all things. Like, what is immodest or sexually appealing about a head of hair? Some women certainly have fabulous hair, but still....

When I see a family where the man is wearing a t-shirt and shorts, and the woman is covered head to toe, I can't help but believe that this particular belief creates a double standard and overemphasizes women's bodies as sexual objects. I'm not a huge fan of women of other religions wearing haircoverings and the like, either.=

This has nothing to do with being concerned with the rights and safety of that "One woman" who is forced to wear the hijab or what would happen to a woman wearing a bikini in Saudi Arabia. This is all about the narrative of the poor oppressed Muslim woman sitting subjugated next to her husband who is parading at the beach .

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone really think the full burqa with the face covering and everything should be allowed in public in America?

A man couldn't cover himself head to toe and wear a mask, and not be given a hard time in public, not be banned from stores, etc.

I am more and more irritated at places like Tysons when these mountains of black go wafting around. We have no idea who is under there, if they have bombs strapped to them, and so on.

When a person's identity is completely concealed, it should not be tolerated in public. Do that shit in your own home.

I nearly spit out my drink reading that line!

hysterical!

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22:47 here. Wanted to thank you, Muslima, for your response. I am a person whose life experience/ cultural context makes me instantly bristle when I see the head coverings so it is very helpful to get a different perspective.

You're welcome, but why do you feel that way (bristle)?

I mean that as an American woman, the images I have been presented with are almost entirely and uniformly focused on the idea that the head garments are used by men to oppress women. That it is forced upon them. So if that is what you hear and what you think you know, then the reaction is clearly going to be negative, because of the emphasis in American culture on personal freedom. But your explanation presents me with new food for thought and a different perspective.

I can totally understand that, but I have never met a woman who was forced to wear the hijab and I have lived in both Muslim and Non Muslim countries. Everyone i met chose freely to do so, not saying that some are not forced to wear it but it is not the norm.

Anonymous wrote:My question is, in the many places in the world where women generally cover hair etc., what if one woman does NOT want to cover? In all of these places, is that okay? Can this woman go about her daily business dressed as she pleases completely at ease?

Muslima wrote:I posted this, didn't realize i wasn't logged in...

Anonymous wrote:OMG, Get a Hobby, go volunteer, feed a hungry kid. Muslim women don't wake up everyday thinking about you, why are you so obsessed with us? You want to make a change? With epedemic levels of domestic violence, rape and sexual harassment of women, with the sexualisation of young girls and women and the lack of equality in the workplace , challenge how women are treated in the West, you can make a difference! Rise above the assumptions surrounding the Muslim woman’s dress and speak to any Muslim woman on the streets of DC, London, Paris, New York, Cairo, Karachi, Ankara, Tunis, and even Kabul.

This falsely engineered narrative of what Muslim women think of their dress should not be tolerated. Not only is it patronising, suggesting that millions of educated women who adorn these garments globally and are active within their societies are not able to think for themselves or study their religion independent of male influence but is also highly misogynistic. Oppression is not defined by a piece of material, but rather by a sickening of the heart and a weakening of the mind. Oppression grows in a society that is crumbling because its members have lost sight of the true purpose of their existence. The stereotypes and assumptions that portray all Muslim women as complacent and voiceless individuals are oppressive in and of themselves.



Muslim women will stay with their hijabs, burqas, niqabs and tchadors, they are not going anywhere, we certainly don't need to be rescued .Liberation is worshipping the Creator and not the created!~

My belief is that women should not be forced to cover. Nobody should be forced to do anything, "no compulsion in religion".The women's rights issues in Saudi Arabia and other "Islamic" countries are issues of a nation (of man), not of a religion, whether or not the Islamic laws are followed has nothing to do with the religion itself.

This is pp, and I'll just come out and say it instead of waiting for the answer. The reason your post puts me off is that we're not "obsessed" with you. Not in the least. Get over yourself. We're concerned for the rights and safety of that "one woman" I mentioned. What could happen to a woman that chooses to dress herself (as *she* likes) in a miniskirt, a bikini, a tank top, and go about her business in public in Saudi Arabia? We're not "obsessed" with you. We're worried about her.

Anonymous wrote:My question is, in the many places in the world where women generally cover hair etc., what if one woman does NOT want to cover? In all of these places, is that okay? Can this woman go about her daily business dressed as she pleases completely at ease?

Muslima wrote:I posted this, didn't realize i wasn't logged in...

Anonymous wrote:OMG, Get a Hobby, go volunteer, feed a hungry kid. Muslim women don't wake up everyday thinking about you, why are you so obsessed with us? You want to make a change? With epedemic levels of domestic violence, rape and sexual harassment of women, with the sexualisation of young girls and women and the lack of equality in the workplace , challenge how women are treated in the West, you can make a difference! Rise above the assumptions surrounding the Muslim woman’s dress and speak to any Muslim woman on the streets of DC, London, Paris, New York, Cairo, Karachi, Ankara, Tunis, and even Kabul.

This falsely engineered narrative of what Muslim women think of their dress should not be tolerated. Not only is it patronising, suggesting that millions of educated women who adorn these garments globally and are active within their societies are not able to think for themselves or study their religion independent of male influence but is also highly misogynistic. Oppression is not defined by a piece of material, but rather by a sickening of the heart and a weakening of the mind. Oppression grows in a society that is crumbling because its members have lost sight of the true purpose of their existence. The stereotypes and assumptions that portray all Muslim women as complacent and voiceless individuals are oppressive in and of themselves.



Muslim women will stay with their hijabs, burqas, niqabs and tchadors, they are not going anywhere, we certainly don't need to be rescued .Liberation is worshipping the Creator and not the created!~

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22:47 here. Wanted to thank you, Muslima, for your response. I am a person whose life experience/ cultural context makes me instantly bristle when I see the head coverings so it is very helpful to get a different perspective.

You're welcome, but why do you feel that way (bristle)?

I mean that as an American woman, the images I have been presented with are almost entirely and uniformly focused on the idea that the head garments are used by men to oppress women. That it is forced upon them. So if that is what you hear and what you think you know, then the reaction is clearly going to be negative, because of the emphasis in American culture on personal freedom. But your explanation presents me with new food for thought and a different perspective.

My question is, in the many places in the world where women generally cover hair etc., what if one woman does NOT want to cover? In all of these places, is that okay? Can this woman go about her daily business dressed as she pleases completely at ease?

Muslima wrote:I posted this, didn't realize i wasn't logged in...

Anonymous wrote:OMG, Get a Hobby, go volunteer, feed a hungry kid. Muslim women don't wake up everyday thinking about you, why are you so obsessed with us? You want to make a change? With epedemic levels of domestic violence, rape and sexual harassment of women, with the sexualisation of young girls and women and the lack of equality in the workplace , challenge how women are treated in the West, you can make a difference! Rise above the assumptions surrounding the Muslim woman’s dress and speak to any Muslim woman on the streets of DC, London, Paris, New York, Cairo, Karachi, Ankara, Tunis, and even Kabul.

This falsely engineered narrative of what Muslim women think of their dress should not be tolerated. Not only is it patronising, suggesting that millions of educated women who adorn these garments globally and are active within their societies are not able to think for themselves or study their religion independent of male influence but is also highly misogynistic. Oppression is not defined by a piece of material, but rather by a sickening of the heart and a weakening of the mind. Oppression grows in a society that is crumbling because its members have lost sight of the true purpose of their existence. The stereotypes and assumptions that portray all Muslim women as complacent and voiceless individuals are oppressive in and of themselves.



Muslim women will stay with their hijabs, burqas, niqabs and tchadors, they are not going anywhere, we certainly don't need to be rescued .Liberation is worshipping the Creator and not the created!~

Anonymous wrote:22:47 here. Wanted to thank you, Muslima, for your response. I am a person whose life experience/ cultural context makes me instantly bristle when I see the head coverings so it is very helpful to get a different perspective.

You're welcome, but why do you feel that way (bristle)?