Alcohol. It is a poison on college campuses. Everyone is at risk on the campuses when they are drunk. Just think what a better environment it would be if students did not binge drink. But students learn from parents and our culture that we are an alcohol obsessed society. When people are drunk things can spun out of control. Why? Because half these college students are not in control of their minds when they are plastered and can do some really terrible things. The entire work hard, play hard badge of honor at colleges is just a very bad environment for growing up and making good decisions. There would be far fewer rapes, deaths, injuries, and mental health issues on college campuses if you took alcohol out of the equation. When I was in college every student I knew who had an accident, was date raped, died, or almost died, failed classes etc- alcohol was the biggest factor.

Anonymous wrote:Actual stats on safety from a survey of 96,600 college students from across the US

Answered yes:
Physically assaulted: 6% male, 4% female
Verbally threatened: 26% male, 16% female
Sexually touched without consent: 4% male, 8% female
Attempted rape (attempted vaginal, anal or oral penetration) without consent: 1% male, 4% female
Raped (vaginal, anal or oral penetration) without consent: 1% male, 2% female
Emotionally abused by intimate other: 7% male, 11% female
Physically abused by intimate other: 25 male, 2% female
Sexually abused by intimate other: 15 male, 2% female

Do you feel safe on campus during the day? Very safe – 86% male, 83% female
Do you feel safe on campus at night? Very safe – 51% male, 25% female
Do you feel safe in the community close to campus at night? Very safe – 31% male, 14% female

Citation needed.

There's "emotionally abused by intimate other" and then there's this:

http://online.wsj.com/articles/usc-international-students-call-for-action-after-chinese-students-death-1407349673

Not all "crime" is the same.

^ Correction

Physically abused by intimate other: 2% male, 2% female
Sexually abused by intimate other: 1% male, 2% female

Actual stats on safety from a survey of 96,600 college students from across the US

Answered yes:
Physically assaulted: 6% male, 4% female
Verbally threatened: 26% male, 16% female
Sexually touched without consent: 4% male, 8% female
Attempted rape (attempted vaginal, anal or oral penetration) without consent: 1% male, 4% female
Raped (vaginal, anal or oral penetration) without consent: 1% male, 2% female
Emotionally abused by intimate other: 7% male, 11% female
Physically abused by intimate other: 25 male, 2% female
Sexually abused by intimate other: 15 male, 2% female

Do you feel safe on campus during the day? Very safe – 86% male, 83% female
Do you feel safe on campus at night? Very safe – 51% male, 25% female
Do you feel safe in the community close to campus at night? Very safe – 31% male, 14% female

Anonymous wrote:This is an eye-opening ranking of the 100 Most Dangerous Colleges in the US based on statistical analysis of official government crime data for 6,696 colleges and universities in America. This data has been obtained from the US Department of Education, and outlines various alleged acts of crime that occurred both on-campus and off-campus during 2010 - 2012

http://www.american-school-search.com/colleges/dangerous

It is surprising to me to see so many SLACs at or near the top of the list. Amherst? Reed? Grinnell? Williams? Trinity? Bowdoin?

If you look at the details of the crimes reported, most relate to sexual assault on campus. Maybe the isolation of the SLAC campuses explains that or maybe the students at SLACS are just more likely to report rape when it happens.

I think we can all agree that it's abhorrent (and rape) to have unwanted sexual contact with another person who is passed/passing out, too drunk to stand, vomiting etc. Those are crystal clear indicators of extreme intoxication, that even another drunk party can and should notice.

However, there is a gray area to this debate, that I don't see as quite so crystal clear. Let's say that a guy and a girl are both blacked out drunk...in this case, not passed out or vomiting or falling over, but too drunk to remember all their actions/conversations/songs they danced too etc. And before jumping all over me and talking about how ridiculous or crazy this notion is (albeit, very irresponsible), as someone who graduated college in the last decade, I will tell you that "blacking out" or "let's get black out" is an extremely common idea/goal whatever in college culture these days...even a source of pride. It's very irresponsible, but many college kids view this as the norm. "BOMO" (black out make out) is a common phrase tossed around between friends. This is definitely a huge part of the problem, but we can't ignore reality when discussing this issue.

But for this, let's use the scenario I described above: two parties that are equally very drunk and inhibited, but neither overtly passed out, vomiting, etc. So let's say these two start getting very hot and heavy and they go to bed. The guy/girl asks the girl/guy if she/he would like to have sex, and she/he says yes at the time...nothing forceful, no holding down against her/his will. The next morning the girl/guy wakes up and feels embarrassed/ashamed/regretful for whatever reason. This person did consent at the time, but doesn't remember doing so.

Is this rape? If so, how is it determined which party is "guiltier" than the other? What are the delineating characteristics of rape (and guilt) in this scenario? Does "not remembering consenting" equal "not consenting", when both parties are the same level of drunk?

You could take this scenario even further...let's say everything leading up is the same as above, but one party (A) is verbally insistent that the other party (B) has sex with them. Not only consenting but encouraging. And then in the morning, party A is embarrassed/ashamed/regretful of their actions. Does the inebriation of party A absolve them of the fact that they were verbally insistent to party B to have sex? Maybe the answer is yes, but these are areas where it can be gray in my opinion.

Once again, I feel the need to have a disclaimer that I'm against rape, I don't rape people, it's sickening etc. And I personally believe that someone capable of having forcibly having sex with another person, or having sex with someone who is passed out, vomitting, etc. are wired with evil. But at the same time, these scenarios mentioned above can and do happen...and I don't think it's quite as clear as some like to think.

Methodology for 100 Safest/ Most Dangerous Colleges in the US

http://www.american-school-search.com/safety

For those interested, there is also a ranking of the 100 Safest Colleges in the US based on statistical analysis of official government crime data for 6,696 colleges and universities in America. This data has been obtained from the US Department of Education, and outlines various alleged acts of crime that occurred both on-campus and off-campus during 2010 - 2012
http://www.american-school-search.com/colleges/safest

Based on a quick scan it seems that NONE of the schools listed has ever been discussed on DCUM, with the exception of the University of Wisconsin (#11).

This is an eye-opening ranking of the 100 Most Dangerous Colleges in the US based on statistical analysis of official government crime data for 6,696 colleges and universities in America. This data has been obtained from the US Department of Education, and outlines various alleged acts of crime that occurred both on-campus and off-campus during 2010 - 2012

http://www.american-school-search.com/colleges/dangerous

It is surprising to me to see so many SLACs at or near the top of the list. Amherst? Reed? Grinnell? Williams? Trinity? Bowdoin?

I don't think a single person on this thread has suggested that it is "ok" to have sex with someone whose judgment is impaired to the point that they cannot consent. You seem to be the only one here to suggest that it is okay for a normally unimpaired person to willingly impair themselves (by excessive drinking) to the point that their judgment is impaired. Abuse of alcohol is NOT okay.

The "drug and alcohol culture" is linked to the "impaired judgment rape culture" and it starts in high school:



http://newsone.com/2037213/malia-sashas-school-embroiled-in-drug-alcohol-scandal/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am stunned we have all these rapes on college campuses by STUDENTS. Who are these boys? Are they my son's friends? Are they normal kids or are they mentally ill? Do regular, well adjusted boys rape people? If so, what happened to our society? Why do so many boy college students apparently think it's ok to assault their classmates?

Talk to your sons! Make sure you haven't raised an animal who has no respect for women.
Honestly, this whole epidemic makes me sick. Does our ultra-sexual culture and misogynist images create a "rape culture?"
Can anyone shed light on what's happening?

Yes.

+1

When I was in college I was sexually assaulted by a nice, normal, well-adjusted boy. He (and every other boy I hung out with those days) was so thoroughly indoctrinated in rape culture that he didn't pay attention to the fact that I was too drunk to consent or verbalize to him that I didn't want any sexual contact. Had he actually asked me "is this okay?" or cared about the fact that I was borderline unconscious, he would have gotten the clue. Instead, we both had to deal with the implications of that night for close to a year. It was awful.

What culture do you have to be indoctrinated in to think you can get wasted and not make bad decisions or be taken advantage of?

Both boys and girls need to be educated on responsible behavior.

I'm the PP you're trying to bash, I assume. Unfortunately for you, there is no "get drunk and make bad decisions" culture. In hindsight I obviously recognized that I should not have been so drunk that night, but there is NO excuse for what happened to me. I should have been able to drink and have a fun night with my friends without worrying about someone taking advantage of me while I was in that state.

Drink? Yes. Get so drunk that you couldn't articulate your desires? Bad judgment. Not recognize that the judgment of others might be impaired as well and then play the victim card years later? Yuck.

Both boys and girls need to be educated on responsible - and irresponsible - behavior.

Are you saying that it is OK for someone whose judgment is impaired to have sex with someone else whose judgment is impaired, if the second person didn't want to but was too drunk to say so? Because I would classify that kind of thinking as "rape culture." People who think that way are more likely commit rape because they don't think its rape, or to enable other people to commit rape by letting them think it is OK. We stop this by drawing a clear line.

I also wish we could have the drinking age discussion without being shouted down by MADD. Maybe a starting point is allowing colleges some autonomy in setting drinking regulations on campus - no changes with regard to DUI laws - just allow responsible drinking on campus.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am stunned we have all these rapes on college campuses by STUDENTS. Who are these boys? Are they my son's friends? Are they normal kids or are they mentally ill? Do regular, well adjusted boys rape people? If so, what happened to our society? Why do so many boy college students apparently think it's ok to assault their classmates?

Talk to your sons! Make sure you haven't raised an animal who has no respect for women.
Honestly, this whole epidemic makes me sick. Does our ultra-sexual culture and misogynist images create a "rape culture?"
Can anyone shed light on what's happening?

Yes.

+1

When I was in college I was sexually assaulted by a nice, normal, well-adjusted boy. He (and every other boy I hung out with those days) was so thoroughly indoctrinated in rape culture that he didn't pay attention to the fact that I was too drunk to consent or verbalize to him that I didn't want any sexual contact. Had he actually asked me "is this okay?" or cared about the fact that I was borderline unconscious, he would have gotten the clue. Instead, we both had to deal with the implications of that night for close to a year. It was awful.

What culture do you have to be indoctrinated in to think you can get wasted and not make bad decisions or be taken advantage of?

Both boys and girls need to be educated on responsible behavior.

I'm the PP you're trying to bash, I assume. Unfortunately for you, there is no "get drunk and make bad decisions" culture. In hindsight I obviously recognized that I should not have been so drunk that night, but there is NO excuse for what happened to me. I should have been able to drink and have a fun night with my friends without worrying about someone taking advantage of me while I was in that state.

Drink? Yes. Get so drunk that you couldn't articulate your desires? Bad judgment. Not recognize that the judgment of others might be impaired as well and then play the victim card years later? Yuck.

Both boys and girls need to be educated on responsible - and irresponsible - behavior.

Anonymous wrote:This is a conversation that must be had with ALL our children.

No doubt we have to talk to the boys: no means NO. Don't take advantage of an incapacitated girl and don't get yourself into a state where your judgment is impaired.

We ALSO have to talk to our girls. Every instance of a drunk girl being raped involves a girl getting drunk - don't be that girl. Don't get yourself into a state where you are incapacitated or your judgment is impaired.

This this this. The finger-pointing doesn't help. Let's just keep talking to our kids about how they respect themselves and others.