OP here, I'm not going to mention it to her. This issue makes me pull away sometimes when I feel we are getting too close.
I do struggle with how close I can allow myself to get to someone who did that.

Let's see if I understand this.

1. Your sister tried to use a lie to gain $20k. She was not successful in getting this money from your parents' estate.

2. The estate is settled.

3. All this happened over a year ago.

If all the above are correct, I'm not sure what your issue is, OP. Is it the lie? Apparently, you have hung onto that somewhat successfully for a year without imploding. Why do you need to do something now? What do you think you can do?

If you think you can change her and make her tell the truth about money, that's just silly. Be glad she didn't get away with it. Don't trust her with your money and don't talk with her about money.

Easy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I find this very interesting, to the point that I might do a spin-off post about this. Can someone be fundamentally good, a giving, loving friend, empathic and supportive and yet in one compartmentalized area have zero scruples and be willing to lie, cheat or steal, even from friends and family? I don't get it. I tend to think that the money issues reflect poor character in general (unless someone is in the throes of an untreated addiction, which can cause all kinds of unscrupulous behavior).

I get what you are saying, but I think you are looking at things as very black and white. In reality people work more in the gray areas vs. being clear cut black or white.

I agree to an extent. I have a dark side, for sure despite being a good, kind person. But lying, cheating and stealing? That's more black and white to me.

character is character

People are complicated. Someone can be a good friend in many ways--supportive, helpful, empathetic, loyal, understanding, etc.--but also choose to lie sometimes. Or someone can be scrupulously honest but also inflexible and unforgiving. Character is made up of many qualities, and having one good quality doesn't mean you can't have some other bad quality. Or that you're on a spectrum--someone could be dishonest about financial matters but totally honest about other things. Even the best of us have our weaknesses and blind spots.

You misunderstood me. Yes, people are complicated they can do some things that are great and some things that are not so great. HOWEVER, there is no such thing as circumstantial integrity, that's like being a little bit pregnant. I' m sorry , if you lie, you lie. Maybe you have not gotten around to lying about something other than money, but just ........................wait
And if you want to put your trust in a liar, please update me on how that works out for you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I find this very interesting, to the point that I might do a spin-off post about this. Can someone be fundamentally good, a giving, loving friend, empathic and supportive and yet in one compartmentalized area have zero scruples and be willing to lie, cheat or steal, even from friends and family? I don't get it. I tend to think that the money issues reflect poor character in general (unless someone is in the throes of an untreated addiction, which can cause all kinds of unscrupulous behavior).

I get what you are saying, but I think you are looking at things as very black and white. In reality people work more in the gray areas vs. being clear cut black or white.

I agree to an extent. I have a dark side, for sure despite being a good, kind person. But lying, cheating and stealing? That's more black and white to me.

character is character

People are complicated. Someone can be a good friend in many ways--supportive, helpful, empathetic, loyal, understanding, etc.--but also choose to lie sometimes. Or someone can be scrupulously honest but also inflexible and unforgiving. Character is made up of many qualities, and having one good quality doesn't mean you can't have some other bad quality. Or that you're on a spectrum--someone could be dishonest about financial matters but totally honest about other things. Even the best of us have our weaknesses and blind spots.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I find this very interesting, to the point that I might do a spin-off post about this. Can someone be fundamentally good, a giving, loving friend, empathic and supportive and yet in one compartmentalized area have zero scruples and be willing to lie, cheat or steal, even from friends and family? I don't get it. I tend to think that the money issues reflect poor character in general (unless someone is in the throes of an untreated addiction, which can cause all kinds of unscrupulous behavior).

I get what you are saying, but I think you are looking at things as very black and white. In reality people work more in the gray areas vs. being clear cut black or white.

I agree to an extent. I have a dark side, for sure despite being a good, kind person. But lying, cheating and stealing? That's more black and white to me.

character is character

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you forgive someone just because they are family. Bad people are bad people and if they are related to you they are just harder to get out of your life.

I still wouldn't label her a bad person. Maybe I'm crazy.

You don't have to label her a "bad" person. The correct label is "liar". End of story
I don't give liars carte blanche in my life, but everyone else may be different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I find this very interesting, to the point that I might do a spin-off post about this. Can someone be fundamentally good, a giving, loving friend, empathic and supportive and yet in one compartmentalized area have zero scruples and be willing to lie, cheat or steal, even from friends and family? I don't get it. I tend to think that the money issues reflect poor character in general (unless someone is in the throes of an untreated addiction, which can cause all kinds of unscrupulous behavior).

I get what you are saying, but I think you are looking at things as very black and white. In reality people work more in the gray areas vs. being clear cut black or white.

I agree to an extent. I have a dark side, for sure despite being a good, kind person. But lying, cheating and stealing? That's more black and white to me.

Anonymous wrote:
I find this very interesting, to the point that I might do a spin-off post about this. Can someone be fundamentally good, a giving, loving friend, empathic and supportive and yet in one compartmentalized area have zero scruples and be willing to lie, cheat or steal, even from friends and family? I don't get it. I tend to think that the money issues reflect poor character in general (unless someone is in the throes of an untreated addiction, which can cause all kinds of unscrupulous behavior).

I get what you are saying, but I think you are looking at things as very black and white. In reality people work more in the gray areas vs. being clear cut black or white.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Death brings out the worst in people.
And I am talking about you OP.

Both my parents have passed and it's been many, many years. $20K - drop in the bucket when all is said in done. She didn't even end up taking the money.

I was the executor for my mother's will. I have 3 siblings. Everything was to be split evenly. Well it didn't end up that way and along the way some siblings ended up with more and some of us with less but in the end, 20 years out, it just doesn't matter at all.

I disagree. The OP is upset because her sister lied to her. That's totally different than being upset that you didn't get what you considered "your share" of the estate.

+1

My MIL's boyfriend, someone my DH regarded as a father, stole my DH's and his siblings' inheritance. We cut off all ties because he showed us his true self: he was a greedy jerk. The thing is, he had plenty of money on his own, and we could have used the $, so we are very upset about it. And ironically, if he had needed the money and asked us for it, we wouldn't have cared if he kept it. But because he LIED to us repeatedly, we can no longer trust him.

He is elderly and lives alone. He has health problems and none of his biological children want anything to do with him. I guess they knew what he was really like. If he hadn't lied to us, we would have been there for him when he needed someone. But you can't treat people badly and then expect them to be there when you need them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay you are extremely naïve to say I like her as a person I just don't trust her with money if a person is untrustworthy they are untrustworthy, PERIOD. It's not situational it's not circumstantial it's character. To be honest, I probably wouldn't bring it up to her I just know she's untrustworthy and that's how I deal with her from now on
I've known a few pathological liars in my life, and one thing I've learned is that it's a waste of your time energy and emotions to try to get the truth out of someone who does not know what truth is.

I don't think I am naive. I would trust her with most things but she is very greedy and money hungry.
I can talk to her for hours about other things. If I needed help with anything (moving, anything kid related). She would be the first one there.
She has never lied about anything to me, besides money. With regards to money, she will lie, cheat and steal.
She used to be a frequent shoplifter.

Thanks for the advice. I will give some thought to what you said.

I find this very interesting, to the point that I might do a spin-off post about this. Can someone be fundamentally good, a giving, loving friend, empathic and supportive and yet in one compartmentalized area have zero scruples and be willing to lie, cheat or steal, even from friends and family? I don't get it. I tend to think that the money issues reflect poor character in general (unless someone is in the throes of an untreated addiction, which can cause all kinds of unscrupulous behavior).

Anonymous wrote:Okay you are extremely naïve to say I like her as a person I just don't trust her with money if a person is untrustworthy they are untrustworthy, PERIOD. It's not situational it's not circumstantial it's character. To be honest, I probably wouldn't bring it up to her I just know she's untrustworthy and that's how I deal with her from now on
I've known a few pathological liars in my life, and one thing I've learned is that it's a waste of your time energy and emotions to try to get the truth out of someone who does not know what truth is.

+1 it's not just that she can't be trusted with money , it's that she has zero scruples and was willing to basically lie, cheat and steal to get what she wanted, without any thought to how it would impact you. So you can certainly have a relationship with her going forward, but you can't trust her and this will obviously affect how you deal with her going forward. Not sure if it's even worth having a heart-to-heart over, because this goes beyond "you hurt my feelings" or "I feel like you don't have my best interests at heart". This boils down to her character, or lack thereof. I suppose if she had been desperate and in dire straits due to her life circumstances then maybe I would be able to understand her actions a bit more but I would never trust her again.

OP, it sounds to me like you handled this well. You know your sister well enough to question her about the loan, and to request proof. It sounds like you were calm and reasonable and she backed off immediately and the issue went away.

If the estate has been settled, seemingly with no glaring discrepancies, and you have figured out a way to have a relationship with your sister that you are comfortable with, then good for you. I would let the money stuff go. You sound pragmatic, realistic, and smart about the limitations with trusting your sister, and it sounds like she doesn't push the boundaries with you routinely.

I have several close family members (thinking specifically of a brother and father) with whom I have limited expectations. I simply can't trust or rely on them in certain areas, but they are my family and I love them. I maintain relationships with them in a way that doesn't expect more than they can offer, and doesn't make me vulnerable to being harmed.

It sounds to me like you're doing a good job of that, so my advice would be to put the estate stuff behind you. You're not likely to get some tidy resolution from a conversation with your sister, nothing will change what has already been happened, and no great financial harm was done - right? That's a pretty good turn-out in the circumstances, no?

Good for you. I think you're handling it very well.