Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm so sorry for what you're going through. I'll offer my thoughts on the chance they may be useful to you although I haven't experienced infertility, so I apologize in advance if what I say is insensitive or wildly off the mark. I have suffered other major life traumas or disappointments (for lack of a better description) while surrounded by others who haven't, so extrapolating from there and probably explaining myself poorly. . . I have found that some things are better dealt with by plowing into them rather than avoiding them.

Maybe not immediately, but perhaps you might find some long term comfort in embracing a fierce role in the lives of your friends' or family's children. I mean more than just being that special auntie that brings a gift when she visits, but really being a pillar in a child's life. Ask about them, spend special one on one time with them, attend their events, be the one they turn to for advice when they're too embarrassed to talk to their own parents.

When you take the initiative to forge a relationship, it forces you outside of thinking about what you need or want or lack and makes you think, generously, of someone else. I find generally that when I hurt, I feel best when I do something good for others. It sounds facile, but it feeds my ego. Instead of thinking, "Why do bad things happen to me? What's wrong with me? What did I do wrong? Why is life so unfair? I deserve better!" I think, "Look what a good person I am. Look how kind I am. Look how useful and necessary I am. Look what I have to offer!" It brings out my better self and gives me a sense of power in my life when I'm feeling like life has had its way with me.

It sounds so trite, now that I've written it, so maybe this is all stupid advice. But I really think you can only distract yourself from pain for so long. If you can find a way to embrace it, you might be able to transform it, at least a little, into something you can live with more easily. At least, this has been my experience.

In any case, OP, I hope you find your way to a better place. Best wishes.

I really hate when people suggest this. It doesn't work. Because guess what, parents tend to get very weird when other people (even friends and family) try to have a "fierce" role in their children's lives.

People say this all of the time in extolling the virtues of a child-free life ("Oh, but I can be the really involved auntie!!!"), but the truth of the matter is that you really don't have a lot of control over that. You can try to have a relationship with other people's children, but the extent of that relationship is really going to be determined by their parents. And my experience is that most parents will let you get their children gifts, maybe babysit once in a while, but that is where the buck stops. Anything really serious or meaningful is their domain.

That's why I really wouldn't bank on this approach as being the thing that helps you come to terms with a child-less/child-free life. You can't assume other people are going to essentially let you co-parent their children. Again, they'll let you buy gifts and dote on them. But that's usually the extent of it.

PP here. I appreciate your response. Part of my comment was prompted by the frequent expression on these boards of needing to avoid pregnant friends/people with children because it's so painful. It's heartbreaking because it seems like you're doubly cheated then-- of a child and then of your other relationships. OP said herself that it feels fake to engage in a lot of activities meant to distract from the pain of infertility and asked for alternative ways to cope. I simply wanted to offer some thoughts on the counter approach.

I'm sure what you say about other parents' reaction is frequently true, and I didn't mean to gloss over the potential difficulty of it. I should have expressed more thoughtfully how it might come about, but an obvious prerequisite is having friends or family with whom you have a close, trusting relationship and share similar values. In my experience, many people are indeed open to-- and often crave-- someone else bonding strongly with their child. For our family, my son's godfather is that person. He's a single guy, my husband's closest friend. We love him, respect, would trust our children's lives with him. He's often with us on or around holidays (he has his own extended family), always for birthday celebrations. He attends my child's school as the honored invitee on grandparent's day where they read and do a project together, have lunch, watch the class presentations. My husband and I both have wonderful extended family and siblings we are close to but they live far away. DS's godfather fills a void in our lives and we are blessed to have him. I see similar dynamics among friends' families in DC, as so many of us moved away from our hometowns and families of origin.

I'm sorry, but this shows me that you really don't get it. Attending birthday celebrations and school performances and having lunch with children of friends and relatives is great, but it doesn't even come close to filling the desire to be a mother, a parent -- to have a role in a child's life where you are making significant decisions about how they are raised. To suggest that somehow women who want to be mothers but can't are going to feel better because their friend or relative lets them come to all of the birthday parties and graduations is kind of naive.

I'm sure you mean well, but my sense is that OP posted to get responses from women who can't have children and have moved on, because they understand what I've written above and have figured out a way to come to terms with it.

I'm not suggesting your son's godfather isn't special to you, but to suggest that that role comes anywhere near filling a void of not having your children is naive. And while I'm sure you trust your son's godfather and would leave your children with him, I highly doubt you consult with him on big parenting decisions. And I'm not saying you should. But the difference between liking children and wanting to have children is the people who want to have children want to have that kind of a role -- of a parent. And to infertile women, there's something sort of offensive about this idea that somehow being invited to all of the events is enough pretend parenting to fill a void in their lives.

Again, I know you mean well. But I think your (well-intentioned though it may be) response is part of the reason why, at least for a while, infertile women who are coming to terms with not having children have to distances themselves a bit from people with kids, because they get a lot of suggestions like this and it kind of makes it all feel worse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm so sorry for what you're going through. I'll offer my thoughts on the chance they may be useful to you although I haven't experienced infertility, so I apologize in advance if what I say is insensitive or wildly off the mark. I have suffered other major life traumas or disappointments (for lack of a better description) while surrounded by others who haven't, so extrapolating from there and probably explaining myself poorly. . . I have found that some things are better dealt with by plowing into them rather than avoiding them.

Maybe not immediately, but perhaps you might find some long term comfort in embracing a fierce role in the lives of your friends' or family's children. I mean more than just being that special auntie that brings a gift when she visits, but really being a pillar in a child's life. Ask about them, spend special one on one time with them, attend their events, be the one they turn to for advice when they're too embarrassed to talk to their own parents.

When you take the initiative to forge a relationship, it forces you outside of thinking about what you need or want or lack and makes you think, generously, of someone else. I find generally that when I hurt, I feel best when I do something good for others. It sounds facile, but it feeds my ego. Instead of thinking, "Why do bad things happen to me? What's wrong with me? What did I do wrong? Why is life so unfair? I deserve better!" I think, "Look what a good person I am. Look how kind I am. Look how useful and necessary I am. Look what I have to offer!" It brings out my better self and gives me a sense of power in my life when I'm feeling like life has had its way with me.

It sounds so trite, now that I've written it, so maybe this is all stupid advice. But I really think you can only distract yourself from pain for so long. If you can find a way to embrace it, you might be able to transform it, at least a little, into something you can live with more easily. At least, this has been my experience.

In any case, OP, I hope you find your way to a better place. Best wishes.

I really hate when people suggest this. It doesn't work. Because guess what, parents tend to get very weird when other people (even friends and family) try to have a "fierce" role in their children's lives.

People say this all of the time in extolling the virtues of a child-free life ("Oh, but I can be the really involved auntie!!!"), but the truth of the matter is that you really don't have a lot of control over that. You can try to have a relationship with other people's children, but the extent of that relationship is really going to be determined by their parents. And my experience is that most parents will let you get their children gifts, maybe babysit once in a while, but that is where the buck stops. Anything really serious or meaningful is their domain.

That's why I really wouldn't bank on this approach as being the thing that helps you come to terms with a child-less/child-free life. You can't assume other people are going to essentially let you co-parent their children. Again, they'll let you buy gifts and dote on them. But that's usually the extent of it.

PP here. I appreciate your response. Part of my comment was prompted by the frequent expression on these boards of needing to avoid pregnant friends/people with children because it's so painful. It's heartbreaking because it seems like you're doubly cheated then-- of a child and then of your other relationships. OP said herself that it feels fake to engage in a lot of activities meant to distract from the pain of infertility and asked for alternative ways to cope. I simply wanted to offer some thoughts on the counter approach.

I'm sure what you say about other parents' reaction is frequently true, and I didn't mean to gloss over the potential difficulty of it. I should have expressed more thoughtfully how it might come about, but an obvious prerequisite is having friends or family with whom you have a close, trusting relationship and share similar values. In my experience, many people are indeed open to-- and often crave-- someone else bonding strongly with their child. For our family, my son's godfather is that person. He's a single guy, my husband's closest friend. We love him, respect, would trust our children's lives with him. He's often with us on or around holidays (he has his own extended family), always for birthday celebrations. He attends my child's school as the honored invitee on grandparent's day where they read and do a project together, have lunch, watch the class presentations. My husband and I both have wonderful extended family and siblings we are close to but they live far away. DS's godfather fills a void in our lives and we are blessed to have him. I see similar dynamics among friends' families in DC, as so many of us moved away from our hometowns and families of origin.

There are some really helpful posts on here from people who have been somewhere near where the OP is now. I haven't really, so please forgive me for offering a perspective.

But I just wanted to say that I have a brother who was unable to have children - he met his wife when she was in her mid 40s and they tried IVF but after m/c and more they opted to stop trying. For their own reasons, they did not want to adopt. I was incredibly sad for them for a long time; I can't tell you how great they are and what wonderful parents they would be. And our parents are dead, so I felt guilty because I know they might have done something to help (lend money, offer advice) that might have changed the outcome. I felt like I had failed in their place.

But I've come to realize that my sibling and his spouse made this decision and seem to be very much at peace with it. And yes, they are happy and their lives are by no means shallow and they are beloved by and deeply involved with 4 nieces and nephews' lives as well as by other extended family members. I can tell they are glad to leave though after a long visit with us - they like their life the way it is right now. They have a happy ending, and even though it isn't the one I would have chosen for them, the same could be said of my life too despite the fact (or perhaps even because of the fact) that I have kids.

I'm not trying to minimize the sorrow of the OP or others, I just wanted to say that it is possible to get through this and find that your life is no less rich and full of love than that of others who happen to be parents.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm so sorry for what you're going through. I'll offer my thoughts on the chance they may be useful to you although I haven't experienced infertility, so I apologize in advance if what I say is insensitive or wildly off the mark. I have suffered other major life traumas or disappointments (for lack of a better description) while surrounded by others who haven't, so extrapolating from there and probably explaining myself poorly. . . I have found that some things are better dealt with by plowing into them rather than avoiding them.

Maybe not immediately, but perhaps you might find some long term comfort in embracing a fierce role in the lives of your friends' or family's children. I mean more than just being that special auntie that brings a gift when she visits, but really being a pillar in a child's life. Ask about them, spend special one on one time with them, attend their events, be the one they turn to for advice when they're too embarrassed to talk to their own parents.
When you take the initiative to forge a relationship, it forces you outside of thinking about what you need or want or lack and makes you think, generously, of someone else. I find generally that when I hurt, I feel best when I do something good for others. It sounds facile, but it feeds my ego. Instead of thinking, "Why do bad things happen to me? What's wrong with me? What did I do wrong? Why is life so unfair? I deserve better!" I think, "Look what a good person I am. Look how kind I am. Look how useful and necessary I am. Look what I have to offer!" It brings out my better self and gives me a sense of power in my life when I'm feeling like life has had its way with me.

It sounds so trite, now that I've written it, so maybe this is all stupid advice. But I really think you can only distract yourself from pain for so long. If you can find a way to embrace it, you might be able to transform it, at least a little, into something you can live with more easily. At least, this has been my experience.

In any case, OP, I hope you find your way to a better place. Best wishes.

I think this works much better when you are aunties age and stage and the kids are teens or older, which doe not apply to most people who are doing infertility. Good concept, though.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm so sorry for what you're going through. I'll offer my thoughts on the chance they may be useful to you although I haven't experienced infertility, so I apologize in advance if what I say is insensitive or wildly off the mark. I have suffered other major life traumas or disappointments (for lack of a better description) while surrounded by others who haven't, so extrapolating from there and probably explaining myself poorly. . . I have found that some things are better dealt with by plowing into them rather than avoiding them.

Maybe not immediately, but perhaps you might find some long term comfort in embracing a fierce role in the lives of your friends' or family's children. I mean more than just being that special auntie that brings a gift when she visits, but really being a pillar in a child's life. Ask about them, spend special one on one time with them, attend their events, be the one they turn to for advice when they're too embarrassed to talk to their own parents.

When you take the initiative to forge a relationship, it forces you outside of thinking about what you need or want or lack and makes you think, generously, of someone else. I find generally that when I hurt, I feel best when I do something good for others. It sounds facile, but it feeds my ego. Instead of thinking, "Why do bad things happen to me? What's wrong with me? What did I do wrong? Why is life so unfair? I deserve better!" I think, "Look what a good person I am. Look how kind I am. Look how useful and necessary I am. Look what I have to offer!" It brings out my better self and gives me a sense of power in my life when I'm feeling like life has had its way with me.

It sounds so trite, now that I've written it, so maybe this is all stupid advice. But I really think you can only distract yourself from pain for so long. If you can find a way to embrace it, you might be able to transform it, at least a little, into something you can live with more easily. At least, this has been my experience.

In any case, OP, I hope you find your way to a better place. Best wishes.

I really hate when people suggest this. It doesn't work. Because guess what, parents tend to get very weird when other people (even friends and family) try to have a "fierce" role in their children's lives.

People say this all of the time in extolling the virtues of a child-free life ("Oh, but I can be the really involved auntie!!!"), but the truth of the matter is that you really don't have a lot of control over that. You can try to have a relationship with other people's children, but the extent of that relationship is really going to be determined by their parents. And my experience is that most parents will let you get their children gifts, maybe babysit once in a while, but that is where the buck stops. Anything really serious or meaningful is their domain.

That's why I really wouldn't bank on this approach as being the thing that helps you come to terms with a child-less/child-free life. You can't assume other people are going to essentially let you co-parent their children. Again, they'll let you buy gifts and dote on them. But that's usually the extent of it.

OP, I am so sorry for all that you are going through.

OP, I'm so sorry for what you're going through. I'll offer my thoughts on the chance they may be useful to you although I haven't experienced infertility, so I apologize in advance if what I say is insensitive or wildly off the mark. I have suffered other major life traumas or disappointments (for lack of a better description) while surrounded by others who haven't, so extrapolating from there and probably explaining myself poorly. . . I have found that some things are better dealt with by plowing into them rather than avoiding them.

Maybe not immediately, but perhaps you might find some long term comfort in embracing a fierce role in the lives of your friends' or family's children. I mean more than just being that special auntie that brings a gift when she visits, but really being a pillar in a child's life. Ask about them, spend special one on one time with them, attend their events, be the one they turn to for advice when they're too embarrassed to talk to their own parents.

When you take the initiative to forge a relationship, it forces you outside of thinking about what you need or want or lack and makes you think, generously, of someone else. I find generally that when I hurt, I feel best when I do something good for others. It sounds facile, but it feeds my ego. Instead of thinking, "Why do bad things happen to me? What's wrong with me? What did I do wrong? Why is life so unfair? I deserve better!" I think, "Look what a good person I am. Look how kind I am. Look how useful and necessary I am. Look what I have to offer!" It brings out my better self and gives me a sense of power in my life when I'm feeling like life has had its way with me.

It sounds so trite, now that I've written it, so maybe this is all stupid advice. But I really think you can only distract yourself from pain for so long. If you can find a way to embrace it, you might be able to transform it, at least a little, into something you can live with more easily. At least, this has been my experience.

In any case, OP, I hope you find your way to a better place. Best wishes.

Anonymous wrote:I know how you feel, OP. I felt like we were stuck. Stuck, stuck, stuck, stuck. What made me feel like we could finally start moving forward again was when we moved to adoption. Finally, we were making some progress towards something that WOULD happen. That was what I hated about IF treatments: there was no correlation b/w how much effort put into it, and the possible outcome. Nothing. It was like spending time in an insane asylum, for me. I wanted to move to a process where I knew that my efforts would get me SOMETHING, SOMEBODY, at some point. Whew, just typing this out makes me remember how crazy-making the years of IF treatments were. I feel for you. I wouldn't want to go back to that for any amount of $$.

+1 and I wish I had gotten out sooner.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you aren't quite decided what you want to do? If you are certain you won't have kids through any means (including DE/adoption), than it is time to really get to work on mourning and grieving the life you didn't have, perhaps through therapy, meditation, whatever works for you. If there is still a seed of hope or eally stubborn streak to keep trying (like I had), then I'd just go for broke and do everything you can to make it happen before you really commit to letting go of that. It's hard to grieve/let go until you've tried *everything*. At least that's how I work!

I respectfully have to disagree with part of your advice. It's not always the right thing to "go for broke" and leave nothing on the table. Wiping yourself out (financially, emotionally) isn't healthy, no matter what the ultimate outcome of your infertility crisis. Part of this is, of course, you have the option to reclaim your life before infertility destroys it.

One of the things I needed time (like 1-2 years) after choosing to stop infertility treatment was grappling with how much it had destroyed my world view, my relationships with friends and family, the strain it put on my marriage, my body image. I think that even if we had had kids, I still would have needed to deal with all those feelings. it doesn't magically disappear once a baby lands in your arms. It's simmering underneath.

My point is that if you won't stop until you have nothing left, what have you gained?

+100 I DID go for broke, literally. We went from being a popular couple to being ... just farther away from everyone. We finally did succeed and have a baby, but there were issues, with us, not the baby. After all of that we had little perspective on the baby -- we thought everyone should understand how very special OUR baby was, without realizing that everyone felt that way naturally about their own baby.
We were not casual about anything -- so we were overprotective. We had gotten into the habit of "pushing" for everything b/c we had to push so hard for the baby. We hated being broke and that was new for us. Did not adjust well to that. While we were paying for infertility our friends were all buying better real estate.
It broke us down a bit mentally -- lost a lot of self confidence. We had after effects of the treatments which were significant -- way too many treatments. Too much estrogen is not good for you.
Yes it simmered underneath. It took about 6-7 years to get over it, and be normal. We are still a bit blank emotionally -- all those m/c really took it out of both of us. Me the most.
I knew that I had completely lost it when one of my friends had oops twins, and I thought she might consider giving me one. OK I was crazy.
It was hard to grasp that parenting BEGAN with the baby, not with our infertility. So I would say, know your limits and do not exceed them. Best of luck to everyone trying.

I know how you feel, OP. I felt like we were stuck. Stuck, stuck, stuck, stuck. What made me feel like we could finally start moving forward again was when we moved to adoption. Finally, we were making some progress towards something that WOULD happen. That was what I hated about IF treatments: there was no correlation b/w how much effort put into it, and the possible outcome. Nothing. It was like spending time in an insane asylum, for me. I wanted to move to a process where I knew that my efforts would get me SOMETHING, SOMEBODY, at some point. Whew, just typing this out makes me remember how crazy-making the years of IF treatments were. I feel for you. I wouldn't want to go back to that for any amount of $$.

Anonymous wrote:No one has to accept SN or older child adoptions. You can state you only want a healthy newborn. A private adoption of a college student's baby can be done through newspaper ads and your own lawyer.

I know precisely 1 person who did this (20 years looking). He is rich, famous, nice, and I am sure he paid +$100,000K for that baby. Surrogacy would have been cheaper.

Anonymous wrote:No one has to accept SN or older child adoptions. You can state you only want a healthy newborn. A private adoption of a college student's baby can be done through newspaper ads and your own lawyer.

In 1962. Here in 2014, there are less than .02% woman doing this.

My pal has a beach house, travels. And is an awesome fun Aunt.

Hugs and warm wishes to OP and the PPs going through this.

No one has to accept SN or older child adoptions. You can state you only want a healthy newborn. A private adoption of a college student's baby can be done through newspaper ads and your own lawyer.