Well, I picked up my 4.5 year old from camp today and witnessed another boy pushing him pretty hard. As my son stumbled back the boy came after him and pushed him until he fell--and my son yelled "STOP PUSHING." the counselor turned around and looked at the situation and just said to the boy "[name] quit that pushing!."

While I think it would have been better handled if the counselor had maybe removed said child for a cool down, I certainly did not see this as a major incident (unlike the PP who would threaten revenge violence) worthy of expulsion and actually thought it was good that my son stood up for himself in a strong, but non violent way. Told my son that I was proud that he used his words and didn't push back (esp since he has been the pusher and biter in previous years).

Anonymous wrote:They actually did give our money back for the future weeks, which I appreciate. And I'm not saying they necessarily made the wrong decision. I just was a little surprised that this was the first call I ever received from the director. And I guess I don't really have a sense about whether he was endangering other children, since I only got one call about one incident, where he was admittedly being too rough with another child -- they used the term "rough-housing) (although they off handedly previous said something about his not listening well to the teachers). I'm not sure if it was a "one strike and he's out" situation, or if there were additional issues. I guess I also don't have a good sense of what the camps consider to be an acceptable (or at least predictable) level of rough-housing among boys this age -- he mentioned to me that another boy hit or pushed him, and I didn't mention it to the camp, but maybe I should have. He's been to many camps before and never had any problem. I guess I was just wondering if this is typical camp behavior, or if most of them give you a little more warning that there's a problem.

Call the director and ask to talk to the teachers, and don't be defensive. You need to find out what he did so that you can help him change whatever behavior it is, and you need to find out specifics. And don't call and start defending him.

If the camp kicked him out, other parents had prob. complained.

Anonymous wrote:12:41, I love your story about the "bully" who learned more skills and self control! Thanks for sharing.

I'm not OP but my kid has behavior problems we are working on really hard...with improvement. It is so hard to be the parent of this kind of kid. Everyone judges you, yet I put more into parenting than the sweet faced no-problem kids...because I have to.

I have that kid too. It is really, really hard. And yes, everyone judges you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, do people here have a lot of incidents when the kids are asked to leave the camp for good, regardless of the provider knowing the kids' diagnose / needs? I am new to the area but getting nervous that I'm about to enroll my kid in a mainstream camp. Do you guys mind sharing the name of the camps that couldn't accommodate your kids (or the ones that absolutely great, beyond expectation), so other parents can learn? Thanks.

We tried JCC camps last year and they were not equipped to deal with my DS (ASD/ADHD). Constant phone calls, eye rolls from the Camp Director. After 4 days there, we pulled him out. It sucked because the camp was expensive and claimed they accepted SN children. They did give us our money back. Luckily our 2nd choice camp still had a few spots and they were able to accommodate us. Very good transition and they brought out DS' interest in sports!

which jcc camp? rockville?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They actually did give our money back for the future weeks, which I appreciate. And I'm not saying they necessarily made the wrong decision. I just was a little surprised that this was the first call I ever received from the director. And I guess I don't really have a sense about whether he was endangering other children, since I only got one call about one incident, where he was admittedly being too rough with another child -- they used the term "rough-housing) (although they off handedly previous said something about his not listening well to the teachers). I'm not sure if it was a "one strike and he's out" situation, or if there were additional issues. I guess I also don't have a good sense of what the camps consider to be an acceptable (or at least predictable) level of rough-housing among boys this age -- he mentioned to me that another boy hit or pushed him, and I didn't mention it to the camp, but maybe I should have. He's been to many camps before and never had any problem. I guess I was just wondering if this is typical camp behavior, or if most of them give you a little more warning that there's a problem.

Uh, op, no amount of rough housing is okay in a camp or day care situation. You need to teach him to keep his hands to himself.

There was actually a fantastic story on NPR this afternoon about how boys learn so much from rough housing. And stopping them does them a disservice.

Do you happen to have a link to that story? I'd like to listen.

Anonymous wrote:12:41, I love your story about the "bully" who learned more skills and self control! Thanks for sharing.

I'm not OP but my kid has behavior problems we are working on really hard...with improvement. It is so hard to be the parent of this kind of kid. Everyone judges you, yet I put more into parenting than the sweet faced no-problem kids...because I have to.

This is so true. I work SO HARD with my daughter and she is doing pretty well but man, to have have a neurotypical child.. she'd be off the charts amazing! I'm just glad she's with me since i'm willing to put in the hard work.

I think one also has to remember that often in summer camps pricey or not, you have college students as the camp counselors and first line staff with the children. And unless you can take the time and would be provided with the training curriculum provided to the summer staff, you have no idea on their level of training to handle kids with special needs, especially behaviors. Also, the classroom setting provides time for the teacher and the other students to learn how to interact with one's child that is just not available for there to be a "second time" in the camp setting.

Probably best if there are direct behaviors involved to try and research a summer program ahead of time and find out as much as you can about the training and the staff. Also, if needed to send a child to a summer camp at the school setting one attends so that at least some staff would be knowledgeable about his strengths and weaknesses. Or to try and find a camp that has a good track record with kids with similar issues. In our community, we did find that the Therapeutic Camp worked well, but one did have to be able to function with a certain level of camper to staff ratio, not be a runner, be independent in dressing skills etc. Summers are challenging as you want the kids to enjoy themselves, but rules still need to be observed.

Anonymous wrote:So here is a positive story, from the other side. My kid has a SN, but its a specific learning disability, so doesn't show up at camp. He has gone to the same camp every year for three years, and last year there was a boy that my son called "my bully." The boy hit, bit, taunted, drew mean pictures, and was a general PITA to other kids and counselors. For whatever reason (not my business) the camp did not expel him. My kid came bouncing home from camp the other day saying "Mom, you know what? (Boy's name) is back in camp! And you were right! People CAN change! He isn't a bully any more! He's nice!" It was like all my lectures on being able to grow and change were meaningless, until he saw evidence of it. It was pretty sweet.

That's awesome -- both for the other boy, who clearly worked hard on learning how to interact with other kids, and for your son, who was able to keep an open mind and give people second chances.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid was "rough-housing" my kid, I would go into the camp director's office and DEMAND that they make this stop.

And you'd be lucky if I didn't seek you out and rough-house your sorry ass.

Expulsion was the right decision.

You might want to start a new thread and ask for some social skills group recs. There must be one for adults somewhere!

Not to mention anger management classes.

12:41, I love your story about the "bully" who learned more skills and self control! Thanks for sharing.

I'm not OP but my kid has behavior problems we are working on really hard...with improvement. It is so hard to be the parent of this kind of kid. Everyone judges you, yet I put more into parenting than the sweet faced no-problem kids...because I have to.

Anonymous wrote:If your kid was "rough-housing" my kid, I would go into the camp director's office and DEMAND that they make this stop.

And you'd be lucky if I didn't seek you out and rough-house your sorry ass.

Expulsion was the right decision.

You might want to start a new thread and ask for some social skills group recs. There must be one for adults somewhere!

Anonymous wrote:If your kid was "rough-housing" my kid, I would go into the camp director's office and DEMAND that they make this stop.

And you'd be lucky if I didn't seek you out and rough-house your sorry ass.

Expulsion was the right decision.

Step up. You will face felony charges and a lawsuit.

What? That doesn't seem like such a good idea? You thought you were just going to beat up some kid's mom?

See... that's why we use our words.

So here is a positive story, from the other side. My kid has a SN, but its a specific learning disability, so doesn't show up at camp. He has gone to the same camp every year for three years, and last year there was a boy that my son called "my bully." The boy hit, bit, taunted, drew mean pictures, and was a general PITA to other kids and counselors. For whatever reason (not my business) the camp did not expel him. My kid came bouncing home from camp the other day saying "Mom, you know what? (Boy's name) is back in camp! And you were right! People CAN change! He isn't a bully any more! He's nice!" It was like all my lectures on being able to grow and change were meaningless, until he saw evidence of it. It was pretty sweet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid was "rough-housing" my kid, I would go into the camp director's office and DEMAND that they make this stop.

And you'd be lucky if I didn't seek you out and rough-house your sorry ass.

Expulsion was the right decision.

You do realize you are on SN forum and that some of these kids simply cannot regulate their emotions?

+1 really inappropriate response PP

I doubt your kid is so peace loving with a parent who's that quick to threaten violence.

It really depends on the incident. There are certain kinds of discipline problems that can be worked on over the course of time and so long as things are improving and the rapport between staff and the child is progressing, they can continue to work with child and family. But then there are other incidents that even just one occurrence is one too many - in that case, the call from the director would be the first you're hearing of the incident. So, I understand from the camp's perspective, even though it sucks.