Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 12:40     Subject: Re:New principal: how to improve Oyster-Adams
Do you realize that no student has to take an AP class in order to sit for an AP exam? So, why don't you just have your 8th grader take the AP exam? I really don't think that Oyster should waste its scarce resources by offering a course like AP Spanish. Btw, it would be much smarter to have your kid wait to take the AP exam in high school; presumably after he/she has more advanced Spanish language/literature classes. Your kid will probably stand a much better chance of earning a 4 or 5 on the exam.
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Regardless of whether or when students take an AP exam, the main point I want to make is that students at other schools achieve a level of Spanish literacy that at Oyster-Adams is only possible if, as you mentioned, you spend time and money outside school with special tutoring, nannies and trips abroad. That should not be necessary. Spanish fluency and literacy should be an expected outcome of the school for everyone, regardless of their ability to pay for extra classes and resources.



You are misinformed if you believe that the vast majority of students who attend immersion schools in this area graduate with a higher level of Spanish fluency/literacy than Oyster students...if those students also come from English speaking homes (you must compare apples to apples). Please name the schools where this is allegedly the case. It can't be LAMB because I had a recent conversation with a parent whose son attended LAMB from PS through 5th grade. A year after leaving the school, and entering a private monolingual middle school, the kid can't even hold a conversation completely in Spanish (although he still understands Spanish very well.). This same parent told me that a LAMB administrator informed him that grade level fluency and literacy were no longer LAMB's goals for its graduating 5th graders because it just isn't realistic. I also don't think it’s Stokes or DC Bilingual, because both of those schools struggle just to get their high FARMs student populations to perform proficiently on the DC-CAS. Mundo Verde and Yu Ying don't have a enough of a track record to compare with Oyster; besides which, YY had to create a non-immersion track for those students who weren't even at grade level in English. No other dual immersion DCPS comes close to performing well as Oyster, so we shouldn't even focus on what they're doing in Spanish until those schools get it together in English. Are you speaking of WIS? I would hope that if you're shelling out $38,000 per year that your child speaks and reads like a native Spaniard (or Cervantes himself). However even WIS has this to say on their website:

Q: Will my child be bilingual when he/she leaves the Primary School?
A: When the second language learning is happening exclusively at school, it is not our
expectation that every child will attain a truly bilingual status. The goal for many students is
strong language fluency and proficiency by the end of 5th grade. For most families who wish
for their child(ren) to be fully bilingual, significant support outside of school is necessary. (link: http://www.wis.edu/data/files/gallery/ContentGallery/Frequently_Asked_Questions_1213.pdf)

Even WIS, the gold standard for dual immersion education in this area states that most children will need SIGNIFICANT support outside of school to be fully bilingual. So please PP, tell us which magical schools around here have managed to produce these extraordinary bilingual and biliterate students…without significant outside support (who also come from English speaking homes) where all others have failed?!?



Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 11:50     Subject: Re:New principal: how to improve Oyster-Adams






Anonymous wrote:


Anonymous wrote:

I like that Adams offers Chinese in MS to students that don't need extra support in English or Spanish. DC is excited learning Chinese with Ms. Li and discusses Chinese phonetics with child of friends that goes to posh GDS.



Chinese is good, but the Spanish needs to be improved. After 10 years of immersion (Pre K - 8) we should expect better results in terms of literacy. A stronger Spanish curriculum that has a capstone AP course in 8th grade would do a lot to improve academics and retention at the school. Many more families would stay if their child is earning college credit at Adams.




You expect a 7th or 8th grader to earn credit for college courses? Are you serious?!? What schools offer that option?



Someone told me it is the most common AP course for 8th graders. In any case, many schools do offer AP Spanish in 8th grade. It is perfectly feasible and not a pipe dream. Look it up on the web. For example, http://www.teamiddleschoolspanish.org/overview_booklet.pdf





Do you realize that no student has to take an AP class in order to sit for an AP exam? So, why don't you just have your 8th grader take the AP exam? I really don't think that Oyster should waste its scarce resources by offering a course like AP Spanish. Btw, it would be much smarter to have your kid wait to take the AP exam in high school; presumably after he/she has more advanced Spanish language/literature classes. Your kid will probably stand a much better chance of earning a 4 or 5 on the exam.
[Report Post]


Regardless of whether or when students take an AP exam, the main point I want to make is that students at other schools achieve a level of Spanish literacy that at Oyster-Adams is only possible if, as you mentioned, you spend time and money outside school with special tutoring, nannies and trips abroad. That should not be necessary. Spanish fluency and literacy should be an expected outcome of the school for everyone, regardless of their ability to pay for extra classes and resources.












Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 11:40     Subject: Re:New principal: how to improve Oyster-Adams
Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I like that Adams offers Chinese in MS to students that don't need extra support in English or Spanish. DC is excited learning Chinese with Ms. Li and discusses Chinese phonetics with child of friends that goes to posh GDS.



Chinese is good, but the Spanish needs to be improved. After 10 years of immersion (Pre K - 8) we should expect better results in terms of literacy. A stronger Spanish curriculum that has a capstone AP course in 8th grade would do a lot to improve academics and retention at the school. Many more families would stay if their child is earning college credit at Adams.




You expect a 7th or 8th grader to earn credit for college courses? Are you serious?!? What schools offer that option?


Someone told me it is the most common AP course for 8th graders. In any case, many schools do offer AP Spanish in 8th grade. It is perfectly feasible and not a pipe dream. Look it up on the web. For example, http://www.teamiddleschoolspanish.org/overview_booklet.pdf





Do you realize that no student has to take an AP class in order to sit for an AP exam? So, why don't you just have your 8th grader take the AP exam? I really don't think that Oyster should waste its scarce resources by offering a course like AP Spanish. Btw, it would be much smarter to have your kid wait to take the AP exam in high school; presumably after he/she has more advanced Spanish language/literature classes. Your kid will probably stand a much better chance of earning a 4 or 5 on the exam.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 11:29     Subject: Re:New principal: how to improve Oyster-Adams

Anonymous wrote:

I like that Adams offers Chinese in MS to students that don't need extra support in English or Spanish. DC is excited learning Chinese with Ms. Li and discusses Chinese phonetics with child of friends that goes to posh GDS.



Chinese is good, but the Spanish needs to be improved. After 10 years of immersion (Pre K - 8) we should expect better results in terms of literacy. A stronger Spanish curriculum that has a capstone AP course in 8th grade would do a lot to improve academics and retention at the school. Many more families would stay if their child is earning college credit at Adams.




You expect a 7th or 8th grader to earn credit for college courses? Are you serious?!? What schools offer that option?


Someone told me it is the most common AP course for 8th graders. In any case, many schools do offer AP Spanish in 8th grade. It is perfectly feasible and not a pipe dream. Look it up on the web. For example, http://www.teamiddleschoolspanish.org/overview_booklet.pdf



Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 11:18     Subject: Re:New principal: how to improve Oyster-Adams
Anonymous wrote:
I like that Adams offers Chinese in MS to students that don't need extra support in English or Spanish. DC is excited learning Chinese with Ms. Li and discusses Chinese phonetics with child of friends that goes to posh GDS.


Chinese is good, but the Spanish needs to be improved. After 10 years of immersion (Pre K - 8) we should expect better results in terms of literacy. A stronger Spanish curriculum that has a capstone AP course in 8th grade would do a lot to improve academics and retention at the school. Many more families would stay if their child is earning college credit at Adams.




You expect a 7th or 8th grader to earn credit for college courses? Are you serious?!? What schools offer that option?

Btw, I am an IB Oyster parent, and I know many parents who have kids that are/were Oyster lifers (PK/K through 8th). Several of these kids, including those with two monolingual (English only) parents, have near-native fluency and they are biliterate at grade level. However, those parents and kids worked their backsides off to get that result (i.e., private tutors, Spanish class on Saturday, full immersion summer camps (domestic and abroad), Spanish speaking babysitters, etc). Unlike you, they never expected Oyster to do all the work. I wish that more parents understood that without a ton of outside time, money and commitment (to say nothing of blood, sweat and tears), your child will not leave any immersion school with near-native bilingual fluency and biliteracy (if the target language is not spoken at home). It would be nice if the schools did ALL of the work, but why waste your time day dreaming?
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 10:58     Subject: Re:New principal: how to improve Oyster-Adams
I like that Adams offers Chinese in MS to students that don't need extra support in English or Spanish. DC is excited learning Chinese with Ms. Li and discusses Chinese phonetics with child of friends that goes to posh GDS.


Chinese is good, but the Spanish needs to be improved. After 10 years of immersion (Pre K - 8) we should expect better results in terms of literacy. A stronger Spanish curriculum that has a capstone AP course in 8th grade would do a lot to improve academics and retention at the school. Many more families would stay if their child is earning college credit at Adams.


Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 10:52     Subject: Re:New principal: how to improve Oyster-Adams
I like that Adams offers Chinese in MS to students that don't need extra support in English or Spanish. DC is excited learning Chinese with Ms. Li and discusses Chinese phonetics with child of friends that goes to posh GDS.

From what I hear Deal is like Switzerland while Oyster Adams is more like Costa Rica. I agree, we should be a bit more Swiss but not lose the Gallo Pinto along the way.


+1
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 10:29     Subject: Re:New principal: how to improve Oyster-Adams
I like that Adams offers Chinese in MS to students that don't need extra support in English or Spanish. DC is excited learning Chinese with Ms. Li and discusses Chinese phonetics with child of friends that goes to posh GDS.

From what I hear Deal is like Switzerland while Oyster Adams is more like Costa Rica. I agree, we should be a bit more Swiss but not lose the Gallo Pinto along the way.



Anonymous
Post 06/25/2014 19:01     Subject: New principal: how to improve Oyster-Adams
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Can someone please provide a concrete reason why the two campus thing is bad? I keep hearing that, but I have yet to hear a single concrete example of why it is a problem. As the parent of a kid whose teams already compete with gym time, I think consolidating the whole school into one building with one gym, one set of outdoor play areas and one lunch room would be an absolute nightmare. Furthermore, I would expect the parents of kindergarteners to be reluctant to send their tiny kids to the same school as 8th graders. We've gone through both buildings, and we think it works great. I get that it might be inconvenient for the principal, but won't she have more APs next year per student than any other school in DCPS?



The two campus model is not bad--I prefer it as well. Monica just didn't like the arrangement.


I prefer the two campus model too. Much more humane dimension than one single macrocampus, separation of elementary and MS kids, consistent with the nationwide trend towards small schools.
Anonymous
Post 06/25/2014 17:20     Subject: Re:New principal: how to improve Oyster-Adams
what makes you think DCI isn't doing immersion? It is. 3 language tracks.
Anonymous
Post 06/25/2014 16:21     Subject: New principal: how to improve Oyster-Adams
Anonymous wrote:Can someone please provide a concrete reason why the two campus thing is bad? I keep hearing that, but I have yet to hear a single concrete example of why it is a problem. As the parent of a kid whose teams already compete with gym time, I think consolidating the whole school into one building with one gym, one set of outdoor play areas and one lunch room would be an absolute nightmare. Furthermore, I would expect the parents of kindergarteners to be reluctant to send their tiny kids to the same school as 8th graders. We've gone through both buildings, and we think it works great. I get that it might be inconvenient for the principal, but won't she have more APs next year per student than any other school in DCPS?



The two campus model is not bad--I prefer it as well. Monica just didn't like the arrangement.
Anonymous
Post 06/25/2014 16:19     Subject: New principal: how to improve Oyster-Adams
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Can someone please provide a concrete reason why the two campus thing is bad? I keep hearing that, but I have yet to hear a single concrete example of why it is a problem. As the parent of a kid whose teams already compete with gym time, I think consolidating the whole school into one building with one gym, one set of outdoor play areas and one lunch room would be an absolute nightmare. Furthermore, I would expect the parents of kindergarteners to be reluctant to send their tiny kids to the same school as 8th graders. We've gone through both buildings, and we think it works great. I get that it might be inconvenient for the principal, but won't she have more APs next year per student than any other school in DCPS?


I don't think it's just "inconvenient" for the principal--it makes it harder for her to directly manage her APs and other staff when she is running between two campuses that are far away from one another. And I do not have the confidence that the new principal, who has very little experience, will be able to handle it.


Please...the two campuses were a major inconvenience for Monica, and she told anyone who would listen. However, a strong principal will have no problem managing two campuses. Btw, some of my child's best/most effective teachers at Oyster had only a few years teaching experience. It can be a benefit to have a youthful, enthusiastic and inspired leader; versus an experienced but burnt-out and cynical veteran. We'll just have to wait to see if Mayra is up to the task.
Anonymous
Post 06/25/2014 16:12     Subject: Re:New principal: how to improve Oyster-Adams
Anonymous wrote:Improve it from what to what? Higher overall scores? Higher percentages of advanced students? Improvement in Spanish grammar? One building? A better website? Keep more IB families no matter how high the % of non-Spanish speaking families?

None of these things matter to DCPS. O-A is about as good as it's going to get in terms of quantitative measures. The new principal looks like she was put in there as part of the overall DCPS middle school retention effort. They are going to throw a lot of stuff at the middle school grades for 3 years or so to see if they can stem the tide of flight to charters.

But there is no long-term strategy for the school or any of the dual-language programs in DCPS. It has been completely absent from the entire DME process.

To improve the qualitative elements of the school that many families complain about, all she needs to do is fire the MS AP, move the 4-5th grade AP to the lower grades at Oyster building, hire a superb Dean of Students, get rid of some entrenched staff who have been coasting on the success of individual teachers.

We're IB and bilingual at O-A and have had mixed results. We're contemplating leaving for many reasons, but we're wondering what dual language schools will be better? The only dual immersion secondary school is CHEC.

An easy to use web platform would be great, but first there needs to be consistency in teaching and well-organized administration. Like PP said, many of the crises were self-made or poorly communicated. It would be pretty easy to improve some of the basic operations at O-A.

The elephant in the room is whether it can or will continue as many things to many people. How long can it stay as a neighborhood, bilingual, inclusion, two campus, PK-8 school, that feeds into an English-only high school?


Lol—Oyster has been a bilingual neighborhood school for OVER 40 years, so I'm certain that it will successfully continue down that path. A PK-8 school is also not the issue here. There are many parents who do not want a dual immersion school after 8th grade. Those that do can try their luck with WIS and DCI. Since Monica is gone, the most likely thing that will drop is the emphasis on the inclusion program.
Anonymous
Post 06/25/2014 15:28     Subject: New principal: how to improve Oyster-Adams
Anonymous wrote:Can someone please provide a concrete reason why the two campus thing is bad? I keep hearing that, but I have yet to hear a single concrete example of why it is a problem. As the parent of a kid whose teams already compete with gym time, I think consolidating the whole school into one building with one gym, one set of outdoor play areas and one lunch room would be an absolute nightmare. Furthermore, I would expect the parents of kindergarteners to be reluctant to send their tiny kids to the same school as 8th graders. We've gone through both buildings, and we think it works great. I get that it might be inconvenient for the principal, but won't she have more APs next year per student than any other school in DCPS?


I don't think it's just "inconvenient" for the principal--it makes it harder for her to directly manage her APs and other staff when she is running between two campuses that are far away from one another. And I do not have the confidence that the new principal, who has very little experience, will be able to handle it.
Anonymous
Post 06/25/2014 15:18     Subject: New principal: how to improve Oyster-Adams
Can someone please provide a concrete reason why the two campus thing is bad? I keep hearing that, but I have yet to hear a single concrete example of why it is a problem. As the parent of a kid whose teams already compete with gym time, I think consolidating the whole school into one building with one gym, one set of outdoor play areas and one lunch room would be an absolute nightmare. Furthermore, I would expect the parents of kindergarteners to be reluctant to send their tiny kids to the same school as 8th graders. We've gone through both buildings, and we think it works great. I get that it might be inconvenient for the principal, but won't she have more APs next year per student than any other school in DCPS?