Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 13:54     Subject: Re:Jewish life in an interfaith marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here - thanks for all of the replies. I'm now thinking that Sunday school is probably not a good bet for us (I didn't fully grasp how big of a commitment it is), but will definitely look into the other options discussed. Our kid hasn't been born yet, so we still have a few years to go before he/she is old enough to participate. We're probably not going to have DC baptized or mitzvahed but want him/her to feel comfortable in both traditions; if DC wants to commit to one or the other we'd definitely be supportive of that. Thanks again!


The problem, OP, is that Judaism is not a "tradition." It is a religion. It's more than spinning a dreidel or eating latkes. If that's want you want your kids to know, that's just fine. But if you want them to go to Sunday School or are actually thinking of a Bar Mitzvah, really OP, approaching it as a "tradition" is insulting. It's a faith to us. It's not something you get to decide one year you want your kids to "participate" in.

And the notion that your child can experience both "traditions" and then commit to one? You are basically saying to the child, Christ is the Messiah. No wait, no Messiah. You choose, kid. Is that something you do for your child is any other sphere of life? Tell them two opposing viewpoints in conflict and tell them to commit when they are ready?



I am one of the IFFP posters here. In response to the bolded part above, we teach our children about both religions, the similarities, and the differences. They understand that their father views Jesus as the Messiah and their mother does not, and a multitude of other differences and similarities between the two. When they are older, they will make the decision for themselves, but now they are getting a good understanding of both. They are not committed to one or the other.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 13:16     Subject: Jewish life in an interfaith marriage
Anonymous wrote:
AnonymousNo one's religion should be treated as a joke, and I'm not particularly religious.[/quote wrote:

Wait, what? I'm Jewish and I make jokes about Judaism and Jewishness. That is in fact a cultural thing. Unassimilated Jews, including atheists, make jokes about most anything - certainly not excluding religion (and not excluding atheism either - hear the one about the atheist and agnostic who couldnt get married ? - they couldnt agree on what not to believe)

I dont thiink the problem above is about religion - its about a profound cultural misunderstanding. I wonder if the "culturally Jewish" but Christian folks here are really in sync with what I would recognize as jewish cultural traits (I confess to being Ashkenazi and focusing on Yiddish culture, but in my experience Sephardim are not that different) . Or are they christians interested in OT roots, or people in interfaith relationships with a fairly assimilated (by which I do not mean secular) Jew?


You missed the point. I'm offensively irreverent at times, but I wouldn't dismiss my niece's First Communion as insignificant and unworthy of my time and attention. But mostly, that would be out of respect to the kid.
Agreed though, that you can't raise a culturally Jewish kid as a Christian. But I think OP has the message, so let's not beat up on her.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 13:01     Subject: Jewish life in an interfaith marriage
AnonymousNo one's religion should be treated as a joke, and I'm not particularly religious.[/quote wrote:

Wait, what? I'm Jewish and I make jokes about Judaism and Jewishness. That is in fact a cultural thing. Unassimilated Jews, including atheists, make jokes about most anything - certainly not excluding religion (and not excluding atheism either - hear the one about the atheist and agnostic who couldnt get married ? - they couldnt agree on what not to believe)

I dont thiink the problem above is about religion - its about a profound cultural misunderstanding. I wonder if the "culturally Jewish" but Christian folks here are really in sync with what I would recognize as jewish cultural traits (I confess to being Ashkenazi and focusing on Yiddish culture, but in my experience Sephardim are not that different) . Or are they christians interested in OT roots, or people in interfaith relationships with a fairly assimilated (by which I do not mean secular) Jew?
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 12:38     Subject: Jewish life in an interfaith marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am half Jewish and grew up liberal Protestant. I practice no religion now. The two are not really that compatible, and you are either Jewish or you're not - and your kid won't be. Its a binary thing, and it's hard to be on the outside in the gray zone. i had a nice childhood, but I don't think religious combining works. Think about Easter - what do you say? I don't do Easter with my own kids, except as a celebration of spring.


I know many interfaith couples who "celebrate" Christmas and Hanukkah with their children and also who observe Passover and have Easter baskets, but I suspect it's all more cultural than religious in nature.


Yes (I'm the pp). I think "cultural exposure" is a fine, worthy goal, and that's essentially what I took from my childhood and exposure to both sides of my family. But I think OP and her spouse need to think about what they really want for their children, because beyond holiday celebrations with family, it's difficult if not impossible to pick and choose religious elements. And even Reform Judaism will not consider her children Jewish unless they are raised Jewish. I think people who are Presbyterians (for instance) and attend sporadically don't understand how Judaism operates differently as an identity/religion/heritage.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 11:56     Subject: Jewish life in an interfaith marriage
Anonymous wrote:I am half Jewish and grew up liberal Protestant. I practice no religion now. The two are not really that compatible, and you are either Jewish or you're not - and your kid won't be. Its a binary thing, and it's hard to be on the outside in the gray zone. i had a nice childhood, but I don't think religious combining works. Think about Easter - what do you say? I don't do Easter with my own kids, except as a celebration of spring.


I know many interfaith couples who "celebrate" Christmas and Hanukkah with their children and also who observe Passover and have Easter baskets, but I suspect it's all more cultural than religious in nature.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 11:29     Subject: Jewish life in an interfaith marriage
I am half Jewish and grew up liberal Protestant. I practice no religion now. The two are not really that compatible, and you are either Jewish or you're not - and your kid won't be. Its a binary thing, and it's hard to be on the outside in the gray zone. i had a nice childhood, but I don't think religious combining works. Think about Easter - what do you say? I don't do Easter with my own kids, except as a celebration of spring.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 11:14     Subject: Jewish life in an interfaith marriage
Anonymous wrote:It has been very difficult to raise culturally Jewish but religiously Christian children amidst Jewish cousins. The cousins don't see Christianity as equal or even valid. They act as though Christian beliefs and practices are a big joke. My younger DD has celebrated with all of her cousins when they reached b'nai mitzvah age, but not a single one attended her First Communion. She was very hurt.


This is quite sad, assuming that it was clear the cousins were invited and their attendance was desired. No one's religion should be treated as a joke, and I'm not particularly religious. We enjoy sharing holidays with Christian cousins. They learned the candle blessing for Hanukkah, had a small part in the B Mitzvah service, etc. Rabbi made sure Christian MIL was included on Bimah during Bnai Mitzvah. We love having Christmas dinner or Christmas Eve together. We share our traditions. In fact, one of the cousins who attends Catholic school learned all about Passover in school, and apparently had some sort of Seder in (a fairly traditional ) Catholic school.

I am not raising culturally Jewish but Christian children, though. That sounds confusing.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 10:27     Subject: Jewish life in an interfaith marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I can understand respecting that some Jews will not/can not enter a church, but arguing that they her family is not participating in her child's Christian events because of years of persecution is stretching it. PP said the cousins see her child's faith as a joke, not a as a scary reminder of oppression.


I cannot speak for why someone I do not know did or did not attend a family event. I have attended christian weddings in churches, but never a 1st communion.

It is true that Jews have historically dealt with their situation in large part by humor, including making fun of Christianity. Humor is (or can be) the revenge of the weak. I suggest reading this book to understand better http://www.amazon.com/Born-Kvetch-Yiddish-Language-Culture/dp/0061132179
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 10:04     Subject: Jewish life in an interfaith marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It has been very difficult to raise culturally Jewish but religiously Christian children amidst Jewish cousins. The cousins don't see Christianity as equal or even valid. They act as though Christian beliefs and practices are a big joke. My younger DD has celebrated with all of her cousins when they reached b'nai mitzvah age, but not a single one attended her First Communion. She was very hurt.



In Jewish law as held by the Orthodox (at least many) its actually a sin to enter a church. C Judaism modifies this for the sake of peace between communities, but be aware that Christianity is historically the dominant faith of Western Civilization, it pervades traditional art and literature, it is connected for many Jews with memories of past persecutin (sometimes quite directly - Easter pogroms, his blood is on our head, that sort of thing) and we are still proselytized in this day and age.

Judaism may be quaint to Christians, or even a way to connect with Jesus, but Christianity is not like that to most Jews.


I can understand respecting that some Jews will not/can not enter a church, but arguing that they her family is not participating in her child's Christian events because of years of persecution is stretching it. PP said the cousins see her child's faith as a joke, not a as a scary reminder of oppression.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 09:45     Subject: Jewish life in an interfaith marriage
Anonymous wrote:It has been very difficult to raise culturally Jewish but religiously Christian children amidst Jewish cousins. The cousins don't see Christianity as equal or even valid. They act as though Christian beliefs and practices are a big joke. My younger DD has celebrated with all of her cousins when they reached b'nai mitzvah age, but not a single one attended her First Communion. She was very hurt.



In Jewish law as held by the Orthodox (at least many) its actually a sin to enter a church. C Judaism modifies this for the sake of peace between communities, but be aware that Christianity is historically the dominant faith of Western Civilization, it pervades traditional art and literature, it is connected for many Jews with memories of past persecutin (sometimes quite directly - Easter pogroms, his blood is on our head, that sort of thing) and we are still proselytized in this day and age.

Judaism may be quaint to Christians, or even a way to connect with Jesus, but Christianity is not like that to most Jews.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 09:42     Subject: Re:Jewish life in an interfaith marriage
Anonymous wrote:[quote=AnonymousWhat is a "faith" to you can be a "tradition" to others just as a hamburger can be a special treat to one person, an everyday meal to another or a piece of unappetizing ground up dead animal flesh to another.

There is not one right way to view religions or to practice them.


There are secular Jews who see Jewishness as a tradition. However almost all synagogues (and I think most independent minyans) see it as a tradition tied to faith. Even Mordechai Kaplan, the most important 20th century questioner of the view of Judaism as "only" a religion, called it instead a religious civilization - our relationship to G-d and Torah is still at the heart of it.

The most likely place to find Jews who live Judaism as a tradition, and who do are lukewarm or hostile to it as a faith, is in Israel. However most of those folks won't be particularly enthusiastic about Christianity
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 09:12     Subject: Re:Jewish life in an interfaith marriage
Op, we are in pretty much exactly your situation, except dad was raised a Conservative Jew. We live on Capitol Hill and go to Hill Havarah for the holidays. Our kid is too young for Sunday school, but we know a couple of other families with a non-Jewish mom whose kids go there for the children's program. It is a great congregation for interfaith families and you will be in good company. No one has ever made us feel anything but welcome.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 08:47     Subject: Jewish life in an interfaith marriage
It has been very difficult to raise culturally Jewish but religiously Christian children amidst Jewish cousins. The cousins don't see Christianity as equal or even valid. They act as though Christian beliefs and practices are a big joke. My younger DD has celebrated with all of her cousins when they reached b'nai mitzvah age, but not a single one attended her First Communion. She was very hurt.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 08:42     Subject: Re:Jewish life in an interfaith marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here - thanks for all of the replies. I'm now thinking that Sunday school is probably not a good bet for us (I didn't fully grasp how big of a commitment it is), but will definitely look into the other options discussed. Our kid hasn't been born yet, so we still have a few years to go before he/she is old enough to participate. We're probably not going to have DC baptized or mitzvahed but want him/her to feel comfortable in both traditions; if DC wants to commit to one or the other we'd definitely be supportive of that. Thanks again!


The problem, OP, is that Judaism is not a "tradition." It is a religion. It's more than spinning a dreidel or eating latkes. If that's want you want your kids to know, that's just fine. But if you want them to go to Sunday School or are actually thinking of a Bar Mitzvah, really OP, approaching it as a "tradition" is insulting. It's a faith to us. It's not something you get to decide one year you want your kids to "participate" in.

And the notion that your child can experience both "traditions" and then commit to one? You are basically saying to the child, Christ is the Messiah. No wait, no Messiah. You choose, kid. Is that something you do for your child is any other sphere of life? Tell them two opposing viewpoints in conflict and tell them to commit when they are ready?



What is a "faith" to you can be a "tradition" to others just as a hamburger can be a special treat to one person, an everyday meal to another or a piece of unappetizing ground up dead animal flesh to another.

There is not one right way to view religions or to practice them.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2014 06:01     Subject: Re:Jewish life in an interfaith marriage
Anonymous wrote:OP here - thanks for all of the replies. I'm now thinking that Sunday school is probably not a good bet for us (I didn't fully grasp how big of a commitment it is), but will definitely look into the other options discussed. Our kid hasn't been born yet, so we still have a few years to go before he/she is old enough to participate. We're probably not going to have DC baptized or mitzvahed but want him/her to feel comfortable in both traditions; if DC wants to commit to one or the other we'd definitely be supportive of that. Thanks again!


The problem, OP, is that Judaism is not a "tradition." It is a religion. It's more than spinning a dreidel or eating latkes. If that's want you want your kids to know, that's just fine. But if you want them to go to Sunday School or are actually thinking of a Bar Mitzvah, really OP, approaching it as a "tradition" is insulting. It's a faith to us. It's not something you get to decide one year you want your kids to "participate" in.

And the notion that your child can experience both "traditions" and then commit to one? You are basically saying to the child, Christ is the Messiah. No wait, no Messiah. You choose, kid. Is that something you do for your child is any other sphere of life? Tell them two opposing viewpoints in conflict and tell them to commit when they are ready?