while were on the subject of vested interests -- let's think about what the vested interests are of DCPS/DME.

This is all happening on their watch. Many of them, who came in with Michelle Rhee, thought they were the saviors of public education. Obviously they are not, but let's a assume they don't want to be its laughing stock either.

So - how can parents' vested interests (their children, their real estate investment) cooperate with DCPS vested interests (?) to make a positive outcome for all?

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

The crisis is that with the OOB feeder system, there's no place to put the ever-growing population of students who all have rights to attend the same TWO schools.

This only applies to Deal, Wilson and JKLMM schools, 5 elementary and one middle and one high school. The rest of DCPS are underenrolled with very few exceptions like Ross.

Would it be fair to say that there are two crises - an overcrowding crisis in the schools you list, plus a quality crisis elsewhere - and that this plan attempts to address those two crises, and other problems that do not rise to the leve of crisis, at the same time?

Exactly. The first is a new problem reflecting improving schools, and the second is an old problem that we should have been addressing for years.

and I would go further to say charters are a mixed blessing in that they provided relief for some from poor quality schools and really stalled improvement of other schools that could have been just as good as the charter schools that parents fled to, if parents had stayed to improve their assigned neighborhood school

Not sure why you think Charters have somehow stalled wonderful school reform... It's not like DCPS was previously on the brink of city-wide success.

I made no mention of "wonderful school reform" - but of parents improving assigned neighborhood school -- which is different. By the way, DC is still not on the brink of city-wide success, despite charters, attempts at school reform and parents staying to improve neighborhood schools.

Right now, reading DCUM at least, parents don't want an all charter system and don't want to send their kids to low-scoring neighborhood schools. They want the neighborhood schools to be good before sending their kids to them but know the schools only become good when a critical mass of kids their like their kids are already in them. The only acceptable schools are ones that are already overcrowded in a part of town most parents don't live in. They clamor to get their kids into those schools, while expressing disdain for the IB families and the long commute. They don't like the chance aspect of charters and don't trust DCPS to make their neighborhood schools acceptable.

They are between a rock and a hard place that is in some part of their own making. They are educated people who care greatly about their kids. I hope they can find a way out of this.

Nope. DCPS made the crappy schools. Parents didn't. Looks like you have a vested interest in pushing the blame where it doesn't belong.

I am not the PP. The educated parents in gentrifying neighborhoods either knew the schools were crappy or were willfully ignorant. I think dcps has an obligation to improve the schools and I think that gentrification is a large part of what is making such improvement possible in many places. That said, I disagree that parents that had choices are blameless in finding themselves stuck without good options. This sentiment does not apply to families whose homes are being moved out of the boundaries for high performing schools to failing schools.

I am the PP and stick to what I said, agreeing with the poster above ^^. DCPS has made a mess of things, for sure, but the quality of schools have a lot to do with the kids inside them, so it doesn't make any sense to me when parents who put DCPS down (deservedly), also expect DCPS to solve their problems by producing high quality schools without community participation.

Also, please try to keep in mind that when a person disagrees with you, it may be more than vested interest at work -- it could be facts and common sense too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The crisis is that with the OOB feeder system, there's no place to put the ever-growing population of students who all have rights to attend the same TWO schools.

This only applies to Deal, Wilson and JKLMM schools, 5 elementary and one middle and one high school. The rest of DCPS are underenrolled with very few exceptions like Ross.

Would it be fair to say that there are two crises - an overcrowding crisis in the schools you list, plus a quality crisis elsewhere - and that this plan attempts to address those two crises, and other problems that do not rise to the leve of crisis, at the same time?

Exactly. The first is a new problem reflecting improving schools, and the second is an old problem that we should have been addressing for years.

and I would go further to say charters are a mixed blessing in that they provided relief for some from poor quality schools and really stalled improvement of other schools that could have been just as good as the charter schools that parents fled to, if parents had stayed to improve their assigned neighborhood school

Not sure why you think Charters have somehow stalled wonderful school reform... It's not like DCPS was previously on the brink of city-wide success.

I made no mention of "wonderful school reform" - but of parents improving assigned neighborhood school -- which is different. By the way, DC is still not on the brink of city-wide success, despite charters, attempts at school reform and parents staying to improve neighborhood schools.

Right now, reading DCUM at least, parents don't want an all charter system and don't want to send their kids to low-scoring neighborhood schools. They want the neighborhood schools to be good before sending their kids to them but know the schools only become good when a critical mass of kids their like their kids are already in them. The only acceptable schools are ones that are already overcrowded in a part of town most parents don't live in. They clamor to get their kids into those schools, while expressing disdain for the IB families and the long commute. They don't like the chance aspect of charters and don't trust DCPS to make their neighborhood schools acceptable.

They are between a rock and a hard place that is in some part of their own making. They are educated people who care greatly about their kids. I hope they can find a way out of this.

Nope. DCPS made the crappy schools. Parents didn't. Looks like you have a vested interest in pushing the blame where it doesn't belong.

I am not the PP. The educated parents in gentrifying neighborhoods either knew the schools were crappy or were willfully ignorant. I think dcps has an obligation to improve the schools and I think that gentrification is a large part of what is making such improvement possible in many places. That said, I disagree that parents that had choices are blameless in finding themselves stuck without good options. This sentiment does not apply to families whose homes are being moved out of the boundaries for high performing schools to failing schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So, if I understand correctly, the Ward 3 schools are packed. Increasingly, they are packed by IB students, which force more and more OOB kids into either charters, private, or the suburbs.

So, other than the fact that the District's population is rising, what is new about any this that hasn't been the case for decades? If anything, a rising population (of presumably relatively high SES families) will improve the quality of local schools as a result. Or perhaps as others elsewhere have stated, these kids' parents will prefer to enroll them in new charters or privates because they demand good schools.

Again, I understand the angst as I have a very young child myself. But I fail to see any new 'crisis' here that hasn't been going on for many generations.

OP, Aren't you aware that some charters are so desirable, that families IB for JKLM, Deal, & Wilson choose the charter instead? Not many, but not unicorns, either. Look at Washington Latin, Basis, Washington Yu Ying and LAMB.

Very very few. There are 5th graders who leave Key and switch to basis-Latin, because deal isn't in the cards and hardy = no. But the number of JLMurchkids who to for Latin-basis instead of Deal IS unicorn-small. The number of kids going to YY or lamb and not IB JKLMM is also tiny. Refer to that great sticky map on the DC schools forum

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The crisis is that with the OOB feeder system, there's no place to put the ever-growing population of students who all have rights to attend the same TWO schools.

This only applies to Deal, Wilson and JKLMM schools, 5 elementary and one middle and one high school. The rest of DCPS are underenrolled with very few exceptions like Ross.

Would it be fair to say that there are two crises - an overcrowding crisis in the schools you list, plus a quality crisis elsewhere - and that this plan attempts to address those two crises, and other problems that do not rise to the leve of crisis, at the same time?

Exactly. The first is a new problem reflecting improving schools, and the second is an old problem that we should have been addressing for years.

and I would go further to say charters are a mixed blessing in that they provided relief for some from poor quality schools and really stalled improvement of other schools that could have been just as good as the charter schools that parents fled to, if parents had stayed to improve their assigned neighborhood school

Not sure why you think Charters have somehow stalled wonderful school reform... It's not like DCPS was previously on the brink of city-wide success.

Oy! ^THIS!!!! You parents who expect high performance from DCPS make me want to sell bridges from here to Brooklyn. I'd love the money, and you'll buy anything.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The crisis is that with the OOB feeder system, there's no place to put the ever-growing population of students who all have rights to attend the same TWO schools.

This only applies to Deal, Wilson and JKLMM schools, 5 elementary and one middle and one high school. The rest of DCPS are underenrolled with very few exceptions like Ross.

Would it be fair to say that there are two crises - an overcrowding crisis in the schools you list, plus a quality crisis elsewhere - and that this plan attempts to address those two crises, and other problems that do not rise to the leve of crisis, at the same time?

Exactly. The first is a new problem reflecting improving schools, and the second is an old problem that we should have been addressing for years.

and I would go further to say charters are a mixed blessing in that they provided relief for some from poor quality schools and really stalled improvement of other schools that could have been just as good as the charter schools that parents fled to, if parents had stayed to improve their assigned neighborhood school

Not sure why you think Charters have somehow stalled wonderful school reform... It's not like DCPS was previously on the brink of city-wide success.

I made no mention of "wonderful school reform" - but of parents improving assigned neighborhood school -- which is different. By the way, DC is still not on the brink of city-wide success, despite charters, attempts at school reform and parents staying to improve neighborhood schools.

Right now, reading DCUM at least, parents don't want an all charter system and don't want to send their kids to low-scoring neighborhood schools. They want the neighborhood schools to be good before sending their kids to them but know the schools only become good when a critical mass of kids their like their kids are already in them. The only acceptable schools are ones that are already overcrowded in a part of town most parents don't live in. They clamor to get their kids into those schools, while expressing disdain for the IB families and the long commute. They don't like the chance aspect of charters and don't trust DCPS to make their neighborhood schools acceptable.

They are between a rock and a hard place that is in some part of their own making. They are educated people who care greatly about their kids. I hope they can find a way out of this.

Nope. DCPS made the crappy schools. Parents didn't. Looks like you have a vested interest in pushing the blame where it doesn't belong.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So, if I understand correctly, the Ward 3 schools are packed. Increasingly, they are packed by IB students, which force more and more OOB kids into either charters, private, or the suburbs.

So, other than the fact that the District's population is rising, what is new about any this that hasn't been the case for decades? If anything, a rising population (of presumably relatively high SES families) will improve the quality of local schools as a result. Or perhaps as others elsewhere have stated, these kids' parents will prefer to enroll them in new charters or privates because they demand good schools.

Again, I understand the angst as I have a very young child myself. But I fail to see any new 'crisis' here that hasn't been going on for many generations.

OP, Aren't you aware that some charters are so desirable, that families IB for JKLM, Deal, & Wilson choose the charter instead? Not many, but not unicorns, either. Look at Washington Latin, Basis, Washington Yu Ying and LAMB.

Crowding is unpleasant but it isn't unsustainable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The crisis is that with the OOB feeder system, there's no place to put the ever-growing population of students who all have rights to attend the same TWO schools.

This only applies to Deal, Wilson and JKLMM schools, 5 elementary and one middle and one high school. The rest of DCPS are underenrolled with very few exceptions like Ross.

Would it be fair to say that there are two crises - an overcrowding crisis in the schools you list, plus a quality crisis elsewhere - and that this plan attempts to address those two crises, and other problems that do not rise to the leve of crisis, at the same time?

Exactly. The first is a new problem reflecting improving schools, and the second is an old problem that we should have been addressing for years.

and I would go further to say charters are a mixed blessing in that they provided relief for some from poor quality schools and really stalled improvement of other schools that could have been just as good as the charter schools that parents fled to, if parents had stayed to improve their assigned neighborhood school

Not sure why you think Charters have somehow stalled wonderful school reform... It's not like DCPS was previously on the brink of city-wide success.

I made no mention of "wonderful school reform" - but of parents improving assigned neighborhood school -- which is different. By the way, DC is still not on the brink of city-wide success, despite charters, attempts at school reform and parents staying to improve neighborhood schools.

Right now, reading DCUM at least, parents don't want an all charter system and don't want to send their kids to low-scoring neighborhood schools. They want the neighborhood schools to be good before sending their kids to them but know the schools only become good when a critical mass of kids their like their kids are already in them. The only acceptable schools are ones that are already overcrowded in a part of town most parents don't live in. They clamor to get their kids into those schools, while expressing disdain for the IB families and the long commute. They don't like the chance aspect of charters and don't trust DCPS to make their neighborhood schools acceptable.

They are between a rock and a hard place that is in some part of their own making. They are educated people who care greatly about their kids. I hope they can find a way out of this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The crisis is that with the OOB feeder system, there's no place to put the ever-growing population of students who all have rights to attend the same TWO schools.

This only applies to Deal, Wilson and JKLMM schools, 5 elementary and one middle and one high school. The rest of DCPS are underenrolled with very few exceptions like Ross.

Would it be fair to say that there are two crises - an overcrowding crisis in the schools you list, plus a quality crisis elsewhere - and that this plan attempts to address those two crises, and other problems that do not rise to the leve of crisis, at the same time?

Exactly. The first is a new problem reflecting improving schools, and the second is an old problem that we should have been addressing for years.

and I would go further to say charters are a mixed blessing in that they provided relief for some from poor quality schools and really stalled improvement of other schools that could have been just as good as the charter schools that parents fled to, if parents had stayed to improve their assigned neighborhood school

Please don't start demonizing charter schools. They offer specialized programs to all of the city's kids. Because DCPS has floundered people want to dump on charters as the fix and then blame them for being that (which they never wanted to be in the first place).

When I want to "demonize" something, I don't call it a "mixed blessing" - please don't misstate and then fight a straw man.

Great not gray

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The crisis is that with the OOB feeder system, there's no place to put the ever-growing population of students who all have rights to attend the same TWO schools.

DCPS will cross that bridge when they get to it.

Which is what they are trying to do....

Agreed, deal is way above capcity and the incoming numbers are only growing through its 7 feeder schools and areas outside those feeders that have attendance rights. Do we really want a middle school with 1600 students? Where is the tipping point where quality falls off. They are doing a gray job with 300 a grade, what is the tipping point. That is the crisis. Families in the feeders as recent as 4 years ago did not rountiny send their kids to deal in large numbers (90% +), they now all do and the elementaries are bursting at the seams. Janey had 3 5th grade classes next year and will have 4 this year. There are 5 classes of second graders coming through the ranks.

Anonymous wrote:Bancroft may not have taken anyone in the lottery, but the building is only at 87% capacity (according to the DME materials). A school can elect to operate below capacity (see also: Hardy).

I assumed that there are probably seats available at Bancroft above kindergarten because they are required to have space for new students in the area at that point. My numbers came from the myschool website of what's available now.

I know that being full is a relatively new trend. I was simply commenting that contrary to what PP said, schools other than Ross and the Ward 3 schools are actually full. It's not like there are so many free spots that are just not being used.

If anything, I'd imagine that the phenomenon of Tubman and its ilk being full is one reason this process is happening now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The crisis is that with the OOB feeder system, there's no place to put the ever-growing population of students who all have rights to attend the same TWO schools.

This only applies to Deal, Wilson and JKLMM schools, 5 elementary and one middle and one high school. The rest of DCPS are underenrolled with very few exceptions like Ross.

Would it be fair to say that there are two crises - an overcrowding crisis in the schools you list, plus a quality crisis elsewhere - and that this plan attempts to address those two crises, and other problems that do not rise to the leve of crisis, at the same time?

Exactly. The first is a new problem reflecting improving schools, and the second is an old problem that we should have been addressing for years.

and I would go further to say charters are a mixed blessing in that they provided relief for some from poor quality schools and really stalled improvement of other schools that could have been just as good as the charter schools that parents fled to, if parents had stayed to improve their assigned neighborhood school

Not sure why you think Charters have somehow stalled wonderful school reform... It's not like DCPS was previously on the brink of city-wide success.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The crisis is that with the OOB feeder system, there's no place to put the ever-growing population of students who all have rights to attend the same TWO schools.

This only applies to Deal, Wilson and JKLMM schools, 5 elementary and one middle and one high school. The rest of DCPS are underenrolled with very few exceptions like Ross.

Would it be fair to say that there are two crises - an overcrowding crisis in the schools you list, plus a quality crisis elsewhere - and that this plan attempts to address those two crises, and other problems that do not rise to the leve of crisis, at the same time?

Exactly. The first is a new problem reflecting improving schools, and the second is an old problem that we should have been addressing for years.

and I would go further to say charters are a mixed blessing in that they provided relief for some from poor quality schools and really stalled improvement of other schools that could have been just as good as the charter schools that parents fled to, if parents had stayed to improve their assigned neighborhood school

Please don't start demonizing charter schools. They offer specialized programs to all of the city's kids. Because DCPS has floundered people want to dump on charters as the fix and then blame them for being that (which they never wanted to be in the first place).