Anonymous wrote:I was never quite sure. I remember when this happened and it convinced me there is no god. A 7 year old kid stabbed by a crazy man in front of his grandmother in his front yard.

I lost the luxury of faith.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35783

Wish I didn't open that link. I agree, faith is a luxury and I don't have it. I envy those who do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:However, that still doesn't answer my question about horrible violence or why God doesn't intervene in one instance but not another.

I don't think it's a matter of God intervening for some but not others. No one deserves bad things. Just because God did not prevent bad from happening to your loved one doesn't mean someone else should have had it instead - they are someone else's loved one!

Sometimes I like to think about what lessons I take away from loss. A very dear family member died a few years ago - someone much too young and much to dear to many. No, it wasn't fair and I certainly still feel "robbed" to have lost her. That said, we have all stepped up to fill the void she left in ways we never would have if she were still here. We've all grown and changed from it. Sometimes I wonder if it took losing her to help the rest of us find a strength we weren't looking for. I don't know the answers.

So God sacrificed her life so several families member could become better people? How gruesome. And sorry, but twisted too -- as if you're trying very hard to understand God's plan -- to give God some credit.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If God exists, then they have every disturbing personality disorder you can think of - borderline pd, bipolar, narcissistic pd, etc.

I don't believe that any kind of deity exists, and believe that life is a mix of human choices/responsibilities, environment, and a lot of chance. But God is one seriously mentally disturbed mofo, if they exist.

So then when someone gets violently murdered, how do you deal with that? Do you rationalize, "well, there are bad people int he world, so it sure sucks to be the one in the wrong place at the wrong time to get raped and then stabbed 15 times." So far no one has answered this question. If you believe Jesus died for your sins, how do you explain this situation? If you don't believe in a deity, how do you process this situation? It is too disturbing for me to just be glad I was in a different place at a different time and wasn't the victim.

Pretty much. A lot of it is chance. I've known people who never smoked, exercised nearly every day, ate healthily, never drank, got good sleep, minimized stress, and still died young from a heart attack. How does one rationalize that?

In life, we have some options. We can try and mitigate situations - be it health or violence. We can try and control our future. But nothing is ever 100%. Sometimes you have a crap genetic hand. Sometimes you're in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think the comfort of religion, is that it provides a (pseudo, perceived) level of control over the unpredictability of life. It tries to instill order, where there is disorder. It gives the perception of an overarching sense of order, but it's a mirage.

It sounds scary to abandon the perception of order and surrender to believing that a lot of life is like a roll of the dice, but I've found that for me, this actually gives me a sense of peace. It compels me to do and act better, to try and control what I can. It makes me realize that human beings are *incredibly* powerful, instead of saying you leave it to god ("jesus take the wheel, etc") - humans do have a pretty substantial measure of control. We may not be able to control other people, but still, we humans are a powerful beast. I don't believe in an afterlife, and I think that motivates me to appreciate the present a lot more - and the people in my life. I feel simultaneously powerful and at peace knowing my own responsibility to at least try.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:However, that still doesn't answer my question about horrible violence or why God doesn't intervene in one instance but not another.

I don't think it's a matter of God intervening for some but not others. No one deserves bad things. Just because God did not prevent bad from happening to your loved one doesn't mean someone else should have had it instead - they are someone else's loved one!

Sometimes I like to think about what lessons I take away from loss. A very dear family member died a few years ago - someone much too young and much to dear to many. No, it wasn't fair and I certainly still feel "robbed" to have lost her. That said, we have all stepped up to fill the void she left in ways we never would have if she were still here. We've all grown and changed from it. Sometimes I wonder if it took losing her to help the rest of us find a strength we weren't looking for. I don't know the answers.

So God sacrificed her life so several families member could become better people? How gruesome. And sorry, but twisted too -- as if you're trying very hard to understand God's plan -- to give God some credit.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If God exists, then they have every disturbing personality disorder you can think of - borderline pd, bipolar, narcissistic pd, etc.

I don't believe that any kind of deity exists, and believe that life is a mix of human choices/responsibilities, environment, and a lot of chance. But God is one seriously mentally disturbed mofo, if they exist.

So then when someone gets violently murdered, how do you deal with that? Do you rationalize, "well, there are bad people int he world, so it sure sucks to be the one in the wrong place at the wrong time to get raped and then stabbed 15 times." So far no one has answered this question. If you believe Jesus died for your sins, how do you explain this situation? If you don't believe in a deity, how do you process this situation? It is too disturbing for me to just be glad I was in a different place at a different time and wasn't the victim.

Bad things don't happen to good people because there are no good people. We are all fallen sinful beings.
That is basically the Christian philosophy.

Every religion seems to say something similar. In traditional African beliefs there is a god of tricks, and a mean small green man that comes and causes mischief. You need to learn how to exorcise him when driving through thick forests, because that is where he lives. Also there are some tricks you can do to keep him away

I was never quite sure. I remember when this happened and it convinced me there is no god. A 7 year old kid stabbed by a crazy man in front of his grandmother in his front yard.

I lost the luxury of faith.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35783

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:However, that still doesn't answer my question about horrible violence or why God doesn't intervene in one instance but not another.

I don't think it's a matter of God intervening for some but not others. No one deserves bad things. Just because God did not prevent bad from happening to your loved one doesn't mean someone else should have had it instead - they are someone else's loved one!

Sometimes I like to think about what lessons I take away from loss. A very dear family member died a few years ago - someone much too young and much to dear to many. No, it wasn't fair and I certainly still feel "robbed" to have lost her. That said, we have all stepped up to fill the void she left in ways we never would have if she were still here. We've all grown and changed from it. Sometimes I wonder if it took losing her to help the rest of us find a strength we weren't looking for. I don't know the answers.

So God sacrificed her life so several families member could become better people? How gruesome. And sorry, but twisted too -- as if you're trying very hard to understand God's plan -- to give God some credit.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If God exists, then they have every disturbing personality disorder you can think of - borderline pd, bipolar, narcissistic pd, etc.

I don't believe that any kind of deity exists, and believe that life is a mix of human choices/responsibilities, environment, and a lot of chance. But God is one seriously mentally disturbed mofo, if they exist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:However, that still doesn't answer my question about horrible violence or why God doesn't intervene in one instance but not another.

I don't think it's a matter of God intervening for some but not others. No one deserves bad things. Just because God did not prevent bad from happening to your loved one doesn't mean someone else should have had it instead - they are someone else's loved one!

Sometimes I like to think about what lessons I take away from loss. A very dear family member died a few years ago - someone much too young and much to dear to many. No, it wasn't fair and I certainly still feel "robbed" to have lost her. That said, we have all stepped up to fill the void she left in ways we never would have if she were still here. We've all grown and changed from it. Sometimes I wonder if it took losing her to help the rest of us find a strength we weren't looking for. I don't know the answers.

So God sacrificed her life so several families member could become better people? How gruesome. And sorry, but twisted too -- as if you're trying very hard to understand God's plan -- to give God some credit.

Anonymous wrote:However, that still doesn't answer my question about horrible violence or why God doesn't intervene in one instance but not another.

I don't think it's a matter of God intervening for some but not others. No one deserves bad things. Just because God did not prevent bad from happening to your loved one doesn't mean someone else should have had it instead - they are someone else's loved one!

Sometimes I like to think about what lessons I take away from loss. A very dear family member died a few years ago - someone much too young and much to dear to many. No, it wasn't fair and I certainly still feel "robbed" to have lost her. That said, we have all stepped up to fill the void she left in ways we never would have if she were still here. We've all grown and changed from it. Sometimes I wonder if it took losing her to help the rest of us find a strength we weren't looking for. I don't know the answers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I guess you don't have a soul^^

What's a "soul?"

It's what makes killing you a bad thing.

I thought it was supposed to be the eternal essence of humans -- that which lives on after death, according to some religions.

It's both

What's stopping you from killing people is that you think they have a soul? That's disturbing, if that's the only thing standing in your way between letting someone live or die.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I guess you don't have a soul^^

What's a "soul?"

It's what makes killing you a bad thing.

I thought it was supposed to be the eternal essence of humans -- that which lives on after death, according to some religions.

It's both

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“God’s job is not to make sick people healthy. That’s the doctor’s job. God’s job is to make sick people brave.”
? Harold S. Kushner, Conquering Fear: Living Boldly in an Uncertain World


The author is a Jewish rabbi whose son had a degenerative disease.


http://www.amazon.com/When-Things-Happen-Good-People/dp/1400034728

+1 for this book. Although I am catholic, I really enjoy Kushner's writings and they really resonated with me.

Thanks to both pp's for the recommendation. I'm always open to books.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I guess you don't have a soul^^

What's a "soul?"

It's what makes killing you a bad thing.

I thought it was supposed to be the eternal essence of humans -- that which lives on after death, according to some religions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do good things happen to bad people?

The truth is that it is less important what happens to us than what happens within us. When something bad happens to me, I don't blame God. I reach to Him for comfort and guidance. (Likewise, I don't blame Him when I do bad things or when people who seem bad IMHO seem to be getting undeserved rewards from society.) I also see the bad things as opportunity for emotional and spiritual growth. Someone I thought was a friend did a bad thing to me. I am still dealing with the effects, but I also opened my eyes to more subtle things that harmed me spiritually, professionally, and even financially that I chose to do as a consequence of our friendship.

I meet very few religious people who obsess about why bad things happen to good people. Most understand that God gave humans free will. Hitler used his to cause harm. Mother Teresa used hers to heal.

Really, those are the choices? Mother teresa and Hitler? What was God thinking?

Being intentionally obtuse doesn't make you seem clever. Obviously most of us will never equal the evil actions of Hitler or the good ones of Mother Teresa. We can, however chose which one to emulate. If you dislike the above analogy consider the saying often attributed to Native Americans as shared by George Bernard Shaw

“A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time. When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment and replied, The one I feed the most.”
? George Bernard Shaw

God wants me to feed the good dog the most and lends me His strength to continue to endeavor to do so. He sheds His Grace on me to forgive the times I fed the evil dog more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I guess you don't have a soul^^

What's a "soul?"

It's what makes killing you a bad thing.

Do only humans have "souls?" What other things have them?

Why would it be bad to kill you?

Yes.