Mclean is more traditional and structured. I wouldn't call is halfway to progressive. They do a great job of individualizing what each child needs.

I think St. Andrew's is pretty traditional as well. I'm not as familiar with Bullis.

OP, does your independent school provide a lot of recess and sports? Does your independent school have a learning specialist? Where are you located? I did a lot of research on independent schools in NWDC and MD that offer supports to boys like yours (and mine) - above grade level, smart, exec fxn issues. Here's my list. OP, hope you are not having trouble at one of these schools. Will you let us know if so? And you sound like a great candidate for Landon but they have no openings for fall.

Mine is starting at one of these in the fall.

Divided By Approach: more rigid, traditional (right for some ADD kids who need more structure, not others)

- Landon School
- Washington Episcopal School

Middle of Road btw Traditional & Progressive
- McLean
- Bullis
- St. Andrew's

Progressive
Georgetown Day
Green Acres
Burke
Field

More towards SN
Sienna

Anonymous wrote:I think many of the rah rah posters are misunderstanding what is fundamentally at work here. OP's DC needs something. The question is what. I'm in favor of diagnoses if they apply because they clarify whats going and give kids a tool to advocate for what they need throughout their lives. My DS has an ASD -- knowing this has been a tremendous benefit. BUT, I can see some people are offended by diagnoses and of course there may not be a diagnosis. But there clearly is a problem.

OP, I say put down your dukes and get someone who can give your DS an evaluation that identifies what will help him. It can be descriptive and not a diagnosis. But if you are trying to find someone to fit some sort of argumentative or ideological goal, you are taking your eye off the ball. He's having some issues, how can you help him. Thats all that matters.

Your anger is off-putting and will keep the school from wanting to help. They don't have to, he's in a private school. You haven't answered the question of why he's there and why you aren't looking elsewhere. Thats the answer. You want a child who is happy and learning? Find a school that will deliver that. Instead of railing against the whole wide world and his school, fix the situation.

THIS.

I think many of the rah rah posters are misunderstanding what is fundamentally at work here. OP's DC needs something. The question is what. I'm in favor of diagnoses if they apply because they clarify whats going and give kids a tool to advocate for what they need throughout their lives. My DS has an ASD -- knowing this has been a tremendous benefit. BUT, I can see some people are offended by diagnoses and of course there may not be a diagnosis. But there clearly is a problem.

OP, I say put down your dukes and get someone who can give your DS an evaluation that identifies what will help him. It can be descriptive and not a diagnosis. But if you are trying to find someone to fit some sort of argumentative or ideological goal, you are taking your eye off the ball. He's having some issues, how can you help him. Thats all that matters.

Your anger is off-putting and will keep the school from wanting to help. They don't have to, he's in a private school. You haven't answered the question of why he's there and why you aren't looking elsewhere. Thats the answer. You want a child who is happy and learning? Find a school that will deliver that. Instead of railing against the whole wide world and his school, fix the situation.

Anonymous wrote:Only backlash you'll get from me, a mom of two boys who was/is a tomboy herself if the label of "feminized." The highly formalized super controlled environment is to me a capitalist tool- become a good little worker drone, and learn to accept the rules at a young age. I don't see it as male/female but powerful/subjugated.

Being a good little worker is a socialist tool. Not a capitalist tool.

OP, good luck finding an objective ally. As you can tell from all the armchair diagnoses here, you are dealing largely with folks who have drunk the koolaid that developmental differences between children reflect syndromes or disorders that need to be treated. Don't give up. Your kid will thank you someday for preventing the educational system from crushing him for its own convenience.

Anonymous wrote:"because I'm a guy" hasn't made it into the DSM yet, OP.

being a forgetful slob with crappy handwriting could be chalked up to dysgraphia as well not just ADHD.

Why does everything have to be in the DSM for it to be recognized. On average boys develop fine motor skills and non verbal que reading skills later than girls. Why can't teacher just get it?

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks to the 10:42 am poster in particular for the great answer, as well as others for their constructive responses. I agree with you profoundly, across the board (your description of the downward spiral is particularly apt).

We are willing to go along with the kabuki show of "diagnosis" as you suggest, much as it sticks in the throat. We are just looking for someone who has a similar skepticism about the whole way these developmental differences are being handled but who can interface with the school and use the "magic words" so our son can get what he needs. Many of the non-drug interventions the school has rolled out have been inappropriate because they are based on the same distorted expectations (are we really going to get seriatim nasty notes because his locker is a mess? He has no problem finding things).

The problem we have found so far is that most educational psychologists make their living from the current system (with all its terrible ethical distortions and make-believe pathologies) and -- perhaps unwittingly -- are not honest brokers. Our goal is to construct a developmentally appropriate strategy for our son, going forward, in collaboration with someone who actually knows something about boys and their developmental pecadillos (and I realize this is not a problem limited to boys). We can then put it into whatever terminology makes the school happy and proceed. But first we need some help with an appropriate strategy.

I should add that we are at an independent school

10:42 here. Basically all the stuff I said about getting the school to evaluate and making a 504 or IEP plan only applies at public school. A private school is not required to accommodate disability thru these processes (although, arguably, they have a requirement to make some reasonable accommodations under general ADA law).

While you might not like the cost, it seems reasonable to me that the private school is asking you to get a full neuropysch. It is sometimes hard to understand whether a problem like messy handwriting (aka "dysgraphia") is due to problems in the brain organizing information for output (executive function) or problems in the brain with language or problems with the brain in coordination or problems with the muscle development necessary for writing. Or whether ants-in-the-pants is within the realm of normal child behavior. A good neuropsych can help you sort that out. I would really encourage you to find a neuropsychologist and not just an educational psychologist, as the neuropsychs tend to do more objective testing for ADD and executive dysfunction. (Tower of London and another computer-based test that measures attention.) With a neuropsych a diagnosis is at least partially on the basis of these standardized and normed tests. With an educational psychologist the diagnosis of ADD or executive dysfunction is usually just made on the basis of checklists filled out by teacher and parent and observation by the psychologist. Diagnosis only on the latter basis (i.e. checklist only) makes me somewhat uncomfortable because it is so full of potential bias, particularly when the checklist results are close to the border.

From the school's perspective, it's important to have a "diagnosis" so that they can provide helpful accommodations for the student and so they can provide the full range of what's necessary.

I agree with others who warn that ultimately this private school may not be the right fit. What county do you reside in?

"because I'm a guy" hasn't made it into the DSM yet, OP.

being a forgetful slob with crappy handwriting could be chalked up to dysgraphia as well not just ADHD.

OK, you hid the ball OP. Your DC is at an independent school. The answer is easy, find another school. They have no obligation to do anything. And you are at this point in such an antagonistic relationship with them, that they are not going to work with you.

So why not find a school with which you can work? Many of us with kids in privates who have SN have transferred.

Count me among those turned off by your language. You have a specific problem -- you feel your DC needs certain accommodations but the school is requiring some kind of diagnosis first. Is that right? I have no idea if your perception of the problem is right or wrong, but if you rail against the system, when "the system" is one school, you aren't going to help your DC.

If you post a bit more about your DC you might get some suggestions of mainstream schools that will accommodate. My children go to a school that doesn't require a diagnosis if a kid needs to keyboard. Frankly, thats such a common thing for schools to provide to kids with handwriting issues, I have to wonder if your DS's school is resisting because they see you as a PITA.

Surprised OP's son has not been counseled out of his private school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is lecturing "army style" helpful for this type of kid. I'm so sick of this dinosaur way of thinking. I see this everywhere my kids go outside of school. Sounds like every damn sports dad that I know.

OP here.

I am looking for a psychologist because I need someone to run interference with the "educational specialist psychiatrist pharma industrial complex.". A closed system has emerged where one is pressured by so-called education specialists at schools into expensive neuropsych tests of questionable value for the slightest deviation from the norm. I feel like an unlettered inmate trying explain in a pencil written brief, without knowing the legal jargon, that they've got the wrong person.

My kid is doing fine thank you very much. He has crappy handwriting but to get the "accommodation" of a keyboard or more time for him to scrawl his hieroglyphics, we need an "assessment.". And his locker, horrors, is a mess and he could give a damn, as he explained in slightly nicer language to his teacher, and he often forgets his homework. Apparently this means he may have "executive" issues. What a joke.

I need a mediator who agrees with me that the current way in which developmentally appropriate male behavior is pathologized is a moral tragedy but who can say so more nicely, in the appropriate edu-gibberish and make practical suggestions in a way that does not piss off the school.

Damn right I have an opinion and am looking for someone who agrees with me. If I have learned one thing as a parent it is trust your,instincts and take the conventional wisdom with a dump,truck of salt.

I LOVE this.

Anonymous wrote:Independent schools are not obligated to accommodate your child. Sounds like you need to find a school that is a better fit.

And independent school faculty and administrators, at least many of the ones I've encountered, have very little understanding of learning differences. Given that, and the reality of independent schools having no legal obligation to accommodate your son, I agree with the PP that this school doesn't sound like a good fit.

Independent schools are not obligated to accommodate your child. Sounds like you need to find a school that is a better fit.

OP here. Thanks to the 10:42 am poster in particular for the great answer, as well as others for their constructive responses. I agree with you profoundly, across the board (your description of the downward spiral is particularly apt).

We are willing to go along with the kabuki show of "diagnosis" as you suggest, much as it sticks in the throat. We are just looking for someone who has a similar skepticism about the whole way these developmental differences are being handled but who can interface with the school and use the "magic words" so our son can get what he needs. Many of the non-drug interventions the school has rolled out have been inappropriate because they are based on the same distorted expectations (are we really going to get seriatim nasty notes because his locker is a mess? He has no problem finding things).

The problem we have found so far is that most educational psychologists make their living from the current system (with all its terrible ethical distortions and make-believe pathologies) and -- perhaps unwittingly -- are not honest brokers. Our goal is to construct a developmentally appropriate strategy for our son, going forward, in collaboration with someone who actually knows something about boys and their developmental pecadillos (and I realize this is not a problem limited to boys). We can then put it into whatever terminology makes the school happy and proceed. But first we need some help with an appropriate strategy.

I should add that we are at an independent school